IL SB0114 apparently allows LE and School Administrators to revoke FOID Cards
- Thread starter Jeff White
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Radagast
Member
Jeff White:
The one thing I have noticed as an outsider observing American politics over the last 20 years is that the establishment machine in general & the Chicago machine in particular is very very good at co-opting and corrupting people who threaten its power base or intent. This seems so common that I have concluded that corruptible people will seek control of reform movements so they too will be targeted to be absorbed into the ruling class.
It will be interesting to see what financial, political or social status accrues to the leader ship of Illinois carry or ISRA over the next few years.
The one thing I have noticed as an outsider observing American politics over the last 20 years is that the establishment machine in general & the Chicago machine in particular is very very good at co-opting and corrupting people who threaten its power base or intent. This seems so common that I have concluded that corruptible people will seek control of reform movements so they too will be targeted to be absorbed into the ruling class.
It will be interesting to see what financial, political or social status accrues to the leader ship of Illinois carry or ISRA over the next few years.
Texan Scott
Member
Registration --> confiscation.
Radagast
Member
I know that. I'm an Aussie. Want a list of guns the govt. stole from me? New York City gun owners from the 90s know that. New York State gun owners know that, they are just getting to eat that sandwich from the Via Cloaca.
Defeating registration requirements is as important to the future of the 2nd amendment as passing CCW bills.
Defeating registration requirements is as important to the future of the 2nd amendment as passing CCW bills.
Blackbeard
Member
So all we need is one doctor or nurse out there to declare every cop in Illinois a danger to others.
Mike1234567
member
Could be... or maybe any city/county/state/federal official declaring marshal law due to mass insanity or insubordination?
The ISRA has a long history of such things. They have made it clear over a long period of time they want no input at all on what they are doing from their members or anyone else for that matter.
Years ago I was a member of the ISRA. I had the temerity to ask for a copy of the by laws of an ISRA board member I happened to meet once. He said he would take care of it. Nothing happened so I eventually emailed him and asked about it. he said he had brought up my request to the president and he had turned it down.
It is one of the reasons I am no longer a member and probably won't become one again.
herrwalther
Member
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This is just the IL antis fighting back. Their de facto ban on concealed carrying was struck down by the Supreme Court, and this is just their attempt to get around SCOTUS.
According to the guys over on ILcarry... It's important that we be careful about our subject titles and posts. It's easy to create a panic response or send out information that is not quite correct. School administrators cannot revoke a FOID, anonymously or otherwise. They are now required to report a student who they determine is a danger to themselves or others. the ISP will then make a determination whether to revoke the student's FOID card or not. The same legal process of appealling a revoked card is available to the card holder in these circumstances..
http://illinoiscarry.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=43368
http://illinoiscarry.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=43368
Obviously the people on Illinois Carry did not actually read the law. If you look at the link to the actual law, that I posted in my first post you will see that I am right.
I will not be careful about what I post, I post the truth and if the people on Illinois Carry would care to talk to me personally about it, I will be glad to provide them with my contact information.
I am sick and tired of what goes on in this state!
This is from my first post in this thread. Tell me what I posted that's not correct.
I have a lot of experience working in law enforcement in this state and I will tell you that law enforcement works hard at eliminating civil liability. If you and the good folks over on Illinois Carry choose to believe that the ISP won't revoke a FOID card is a school administrator calls them and tells them someone shouldn't have a gun because they are a danger to themselves and others, then you all are obviously living in some alternate universe. The bad press and the liability would be huge if they didn't revoke and there was a shooting.
The law says what it says and I stand by every word I posted. PM me if you want my number if any of the sell outs at Illinois Carry have the guts to call me a fear monger to my face.
I will not be careful about what I post, I post the truth and if the people on Illinois Carry would care to talk to me personally about it, I will be glad to provide them with my contact information.
I am sick and tired of what goes on in this state!
This is from my first post in this thread. Tell me what I posted that's not correct.
I have a lot of experience working in law enforcement in this state and I will tell you that law enforcement works hard at eliminating civil liability. If you and the good folks over on Illinois Carry choose to believe that the ISP won't revoke a FOID card is a school administrator calls them and tells them someone shouldn't have a gun because they are a danger to themselves and others, then you all are obviously living in some alternate universe. The bad press and the liability would be huge if they didn't revoke and there was a shooting.
The law says what it says and I stand by every word I posted. PM me if you want my number if any of the sell outs at Illinois Carry have the guts to call me a fear monger to my face.
I have no affiliation with ILcarry. I didn't endorse the information, I just posted what I thought was a pertinent link. If you would like to stroll over there and start something, by all means, go for it. In the past, they have been a decent source of info. If they are off base on this, it's no skin off my back. Have fun though, I have noticed they aren't fond of dissenting voices.
I've got no use for the people at Illinois Carry. I had it out with a few of them here several years ago when they were pushing a bill that allowed home rule units of government to opt out of concealed carry.
The discussion got pretty hot and I even lost a couple friends here over it. I was accused of not caring about CCW because I was in law enforcement and it didn't really affect me.
In my opinion many people there are anxious to be able to carry a gun legally that they would accept almost anything as long as it allowed them to carry.
We had the antis over a barrel with the 7th Circuits decision to force the legislature to pass CCW and we squandered it on a bill that is so bad that it might as well not even exist.
And then last week, with no public notice, we let the Chicago legislative delegation make the bill worse and they are trying to pass it off as some kind of a victory because we got "legislative intent" that it can't be preempted into the record.
As if this language in the original bill and the fact is had to pass with a 3/5th majority isn't enough:
http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/98/HB/09800HB0183lv.htm
They added to the training requirements, made it easier for someone to lose their RKBA by having their FOID card revoked and we are supposed to accept this as a good thing? Not me and I have no compinctions abopuit pointing this out to anyone that asks.
You can see who voted for it here: (House)
http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/votehistory/98/house/09800SB0114_12032013_005000T.pdf
And here (Senate):
http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/votehistory/98/senate/09800SB0114_04232013_003000T.pdf
If you are as outraged about this as I am, make sure you let them know!
The discussion got pretty hot and I even lost a couple friends here over it. I was accused of not caring about CCW because I was in law enforcement and it didn't really affect me.
In my opinion many people there are anxious to be able to carry a gun legally that they would accept almost anything as long as it allowed them to carry.
We had the antis over a barrel with the 7th Circuits decision to force the legislature to pass CCW and we squandered it on a bill that is so bad that it might as well not even exist.
And then last week, with no public notice, we let the Chicago legislative delegation make the bill worse and they are trying to pass it off as some kind of a victory because we got "legislative intent" that it can't be preempted into the record.
As if this language in the original bill and the fact is had to pass with a 3/5th majority isn't enough:
http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/98/HB/09800HB0183lv.htm
They added to the training requirements, made it easier for someone to lose their RKBA by having their FOID card revoked and we are supposed to accept this as a good thing? Not me and I have no compinctions abopuit pointing this out to anyone that asks.
You can see who voted for it here: (House)
http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/votehistory/98/house/09800SB0114_12032013_005000T.pdf
And here (Senate):
http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/votehistory/98/senate/09800SB0114_04232013_003000T.pdf
If you are as outraged about this as I am, make sure you let them know!
tactikel
Member
First, I am a member of the ISRA ( Ill state rifle association ) and can't believe we were not given a heads up on this!! Citizens have a right to confront their accuser. What is to prevent a School principal from obtaining the names of all FOID holders in their district and filing actions to pull their FOIDs because they "don't feel safe with anyone owning a gun" in the district? What is prevent any anti gun state official with filing bogus complaints to yank as many FOIDs as they can get away with? This is back door citizen disarmament , since you need a FOID to possess a gun in Ill.
The left is mad as heck because we asserted the right to CCW, this is payback
The left is mad as heck because we asserted the right to CCW, this is payback
Jeff, I would let IL Carry know how I feel, except they (Molly) banned me earlier this year for voicing my dissenting opinion.
I also don't have any use for the ISRA. Pearson is an idiot.
At the 2013 iGold when we should have been rallying on the final push towards CCW, Pearson got up on stage in front of everyone and ranted on for about 20 minutes about homeland security APC's, drones, and the US Government buying up billions of rounds of ammunition.
While such matters make for interesting dinner table conversation they do nothing to advance our cause when inforwarz propaganda is spewed out at a pro-gun rally that the media is attending. Makes everyone in the room look like a bunch of white-trash tinfoil hat wearing fear mongers, when the media grabs sound bites like that.
We needed to focus our efforts like a laser beam on the topic of CCW. And he was all over the map, and then some.
I also don't have any use for the ISRA. Pearson is an idiot.
At the 2013 iGold when we should have been rallying on the final push towards CCW, Pearson got up on stage in front of everyone and ranted on for about 20 minutes about homeland security APC's, drones, and the US Government buying up billions of rounds of ammunition.
While such matters make for interesting dinner table conversation they do nothing to advance our cause when inforwarz propaganda is spewed out at a pro-gun rally that the media is attending. Makes everyone in the room look like a bunch of white-trash tinfoil hat wearing fear mongers, when the media grabs sound bites like that.
We needed to focus our efforts like a laser beam on the topic of CCW. And he was all over the map, and then some.
Dissent is not welcome there. I am under almost continuous threat of being banned.
The latest threat of banning was for suggesting that the plain wording of what the law actually says is that an inadvertent exposure of a firearm might well result in a legitimate felony UUW charge.
They are claiming that they are in a "unique position" to know that "partially concealed" actually means something akin to inadvertent exposure, even though it is very tough for me to imagine a judge going through the necessary gyrations to get from one to the other.
I don't know what you do now. A really bad law is in place and it was sanctioned by "our" side. That is going to make it fairly hard to go to court and say we were really screwed over.
SilentStalker
Member
Another problem with this is that said anonymous person really doesn't even have to have had beef with you. What stops them from calling on someone just because they don't like someone?
Trent,
I've been an ISRA member for years and I did a two year renewal right before we started negotiating the concealed carry bill. I hope to reside in another state before that membership expires.
Bob,
No one will know what partially concealed means until the courts weigh in the issue. Anyone who says they have special knowledge is a fool.
I've been an ISRA member for years and I did a two year renewal right before we started negotiating the concealed carry bill. I hope to reside in another state before that membership expires.
Bob,
No one will know what partially concealed means until the courts weigh in the issue. Anyone who says they have special knowledge is a fool.
That's because Pearson at the ISRA and the folks at IL carry are drinking the drink of victory. It clouds your vision, muddles your thoughts, and makes you arrogant and prideful to the point of ruin. You are oblivious to the knife in the back until you find yourself on your knees, life blood flowing from a thousand cuts, weakly saying, "Et tu, brute?"
We're being sold out by the people who are supposed to champion the cause - whether through neglect, ignorance, arrogance, or some other reason is unclear - but the end result is we're going to find ourselves in a very bad position soon.
This IS Illinois. Don't think the reigning power will take their licking and smile about it. They're going to hurt us every chance they get.
They let us get CCW (they had no choice).
Now they're going to show everyone where the power really lies, as they curtail the law, hinder us, sneak in nasty legislation, trade quid-pro-quo for what our side wants elsewhere.
They hold all of the cards, we don't hold any. We lost our position of superiority when we caved in and passed such a heinous bill this summer.
The lawmakers should have held their ground and let it go constitutional carry. Make the other side fight tooth and nail for every one of their "gun free zone" restrictions.
We turned the biggest political victory the gun rights movement has ever seen - the fall of the 50th ban state - and our representatives squandered the opportunity.
"But we passed Concealed Carry", they will say, come re-election time.
Cowards, one and all.
Trent,
I'm not sure if they are drunk with victory or if they've been co-opted. Remember when the state senator from Chicago got caught pretending he worked as a security guard in a contributors company in order to carry a gun and Vandermyde got all over the internet urging everyone not to make a big deal of it because he was a reasonable man?
I think Vandermyde and Pearson have been in among the enemy too long and they have something akin to Stockholm Syndrome.
I'm not sure if they are drunk with victory or if they've been co-opted. Remember when the state senator from Chicago got caught pretending he worked as a security guard in a contributors company in order to carry a gun and Vandermyde got all over the internet urging everyone not to make a big deal of it because he was a reasonable man?
I think Vandermyde and Pearson have been in among the enemy too long and they have something akin to Stockholm Syndrome.
I have also been threatened with banishment for saying that as well.
They are making like the trailer bill was a huge win because corrections officer training will now count for the full 16 hours instead of just 8 hours.
It is one thing to see a glass half full as opposed to half empty. It is something else to see an empty glass as being full to overflowing.
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