Illegal immigrants allowed at least five strikes

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If I were a Mexican criminal in Mexico and wanted for murder, I'd flee to the US and use a different name. If I killed a couple gringos in the US and was wanted by the law, I'd just walk over into Canada and use yet another name.
Life is grand! Gringos are so stuuupeeeet!

What's your point though?

A Canadian could murder someone and come to the US and use a different name too. So can a Cuban, a Chinese, a Brit, or a Venezualan. Hell an American can kill someone in one state and move to another state and use a different name. Just have to stay under a radar. You make it sound like they never get caught.

Different name does not mean a murderer doesn't get caught. Fleeing the country where the murder was committed doesn't mean he doesn't get caught and extradited back.

Unfortunately you didn't think through your cunning plan, the police in real life rely on other methods to identity a criminal, such as fingerprints, DNA, looks, etc. Not just a name.

Crimes committed in Mexico really isn't a problem of the US. If they come over and get caught for being an illegal, they get deported, jailed, or released. If they link the criminal to Meixcan crimes, he'll get extradited back. He most probably won't get released if the US knows he's a wanted murderer in Mexico. Police in different countries do cooperate you know...
 
I get no pleasure--contrary to the belief of some people who know me--in being apocalyptic. I just don't see enough good faith in really addressing this problem by responsible people who actually have the power to do something about it. The elephant has gone from the living room to squatting in every room in the house. Yet nothing is done. Our own pols look for ways to add room to the house, at our expense, to harbor even more elephants.

I said "defenestration" above. I might have said "buffalo stampede." That was to break the bonds of false politeness and look mercilessly at the social chaos that is looming ahead.

Let me put it bluntly: if the people in charge do not get off their butts and do the right thing in this country in the next year or two, we will have race war and ethnic cleansing on American soil. I don't want that. No one on this forum wants that. But all the chips are in place for it, so if we want to avoid it we're going to have to start talking turkey and walking the walk. This could get uber-ugly.
 
foob, what fantasy land are you living in? A Mexican National extradited from Mexico back to the US for crimes here? Thanks, I needed the laugh. :D
 
Cfriesen a short perusal of that list of articles brings up a common theme, in each case where it was murder committed by a Mexican, the Mexican authorities would only extradite when guaranteed that the perpetrator would not face the death penalty.

http://www.escapingjustice.com/extrafpo.htm

http://www.diggersrealm.com/mt/archives/001099.html

Cfriesen, I have to ask what is it about Mexico that you are so in love with? 10 million plus Mexican criminals are in our country as I type this, the Mexican government openly encourages them to come. Corporations in the US exploit this undocumented labor pool ruthlessly, not paying taxes and ignoring our labor laws. I don't get you and I guess I never will.

http://www.tboblogs.com/index.php/n...eign-guestworkers-treated-almost-like-slaves/
 
I think the war on the home front is more important than the one in Iraqi, am I alone on this one? Move the troops!
 
foob, what fantasy land are you living in? A Mexican National extradited from Mexico back to the US for crimes here? Thanks, I needed the laugh.

How much cooperation exists between the US and Mexican government and the conditions for extradition is outside the scope of this thread. It's not my problem there isn't enough cooperation or that more can be done to improve extradition procedures and treaties.

Also the post I was referencing was a Mexican murderer who fled to Canada. I'm pretty sure Canada and the US has better extradition procedures, of course, the existence of the dealth penalty in the US also makes canada wary of sending criminals back.
 
Illegal immigrants allowed five strikes

I know that we have a INS system that has been to laxed because of members of congress from both sides. What we have to do is when we catch these illegals in the act of doing something wrong, youall know what needs to be done espicially when the illegals are involved in any type of accident and they do not have no licesense,insurance,or car registration and dont speak english. They[illegals] are getting more welfare benefits than we as taxpayers have ever paid into the system. I am disabled because of type one diabetes,heart problems,hemo-dialysis 3 times per week and other health problems and my welfare worker told me because I get to much from Social security,I can only get $10.00 per month food stamps. And the illegals,can get $300 or mor per month. Now it is time for changing the guards in congress on this. Vote to keep them in or vote to tell them,YOURE FIRED!!!!!!!!!! Rich Ziemies,Omaha,Ne.:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :cuss: :cuss: :cuss: :cuss:
 
This state of affairs is what the late Sam Francis termed anarcho-tyranny. The underclass, the criminals and the power elite are not subject to the tyranny and nanny state hyper regulation that the rest of us are subject to.

It is only going to get worse.
 
Five times huh?

Well that sounds about right. Last spring I got hit by an illegal alien who was driving drunk without a TXDL or registration. It cost me thousands of dollars in lost work and medical bills, my car is still messed up (although I can drive it, it still looks like hell) and my back is still slightly screwed up (I've got a Ruptured Disc at C6/3 Cortizone shots and physical therapy helped it some). He fled initially and was caught by some people who saw the wreck and followed him until he finally quit driving on the flat tire he had as a result of the wreck with me. The fact that his car was messed up didn't matter to him, it was a 1980's minivan that already had a couple of dents in it anyway.

Anyway, he went to jail as the result of the drunk driving, he was bonded out later the next day (I was still in the hospital). The detectives in charge of the case told me that they couldn't charge him with felony hit and run because I wasn't "seriously injured" and the charge of "failing to stop and render aid" only applies if the victim is near death. So he got a traffic citation out of it. He failed to show up for his drunk driving charge later that month and they still haven't found him. They think that he went down to central Texas where he has some family, they aren't going to look for him, they'll just wait until he's picked up again.

So just 4 more arrests and maybe he'll get kicked out of the US for good, gee, I can't wait. Maybe next time he'll just kill someone and they can just lock him up for good. I almost wish this guy had just broken into my house and tired to kill me instead, at least then law enforcement might take it more seriously and at least then I'd have the option to defend myself. What am I supposed to do now when I see a drunk Mexican driving down the street near me? Open fire as a result of my experience? :rolleyes:

The funny thing is that I'd just gotten off shift where I work on an ambulance as a paramedic. I had just dropped off at the hospital an hour before I went back there as a patient. Kind of ironic huh? I see the victims of these guys all the time. I just never thought that I'd be one. I live in a nice and safe neighborhood now, nothing every happens here. The most dangerous thing I do is drive around all day in traffic.

I'm constantly getting calls where these people have gotten drunk and slammed into someone or where they've beat up someone, where they've raped someone or where they've killed someone. When is the US government going to wake up to this problem and actually kick these freakin people out of the US?

Yeah they only come here to work, the cost of which is killing us.
 
Cfriesen a short perusal of that list of articles brings up a common theme, in each case where it was murder committed by a Mexican, the Mexican authorities would only extradite when guaranteed that the perpetrator would not face the death penalty.

Yes lacoochee, of course. I'm not certain how familiar you are with the subject, but this is the case in virtually every extradition to the US on a murder charge from virtually every country now... not just Mexico. Most of the developed world has abandoned use of the death penalty.



Cfriesen, I have to ask what is it about Mexico that you are so in love with?

Nothing. Absolutely nothing.


10 million plus Mexican criminals are in our country as I type this, the Mexican government openly encourages them to come. Corporations in the US exploit this undocumented labor pool ruthlessly, not paying taxes and ignoring our labor laws. I don't get you and I guess I never will

What on earth leads you to believe I in any way support illegal immigration?

My issue is with the rampant misinformation that pervades this problem. I want essentially many of the same things you do. I do not however believe in lying to myself and others about the issue in order to validate my belief system.
 
I long for the day when employers who employ illegal aliens are no longer fined for doing so.

I would much rather see the cost-shifting sons of whoores doing a perp-walk.

Jail the employers ofnillegals, deport the illegals when found, cut illegals off from the gooberment teat, build a fence, and man it with some stony-eyed muldoons.
 
The day may come when employer of illegals will be a high-risk profession.

Look for no help from the corporatists who run American policy at home and abroad. Everyone knows what has to be done--yes, serious penalties for employers, not wrist-slaps--but no one is willing to step up and do it except for the occasional political photo op.
 
America now accepts over 2million per year legal immigrants, close to 1million in work permits, and no one knows the correct number of illegals. In total more then other countries. The question is how many can we take in, our system in my opinion has signs of breaking now in terms of health care, schools, roads. We ship manufacturing jobs to the third world and take in poor unskilled uneducated workers, all in all a poor path for America. We now have 300 million people is there a breaking point or can the open border crowd explain how we can provide for all. :cuss:

All things have limits folks do you want a great country or a third world existence.
 
The Third World is right here in River City. Check out this story in this morning's Los Angeles Times:The Southland's hidden Third World slums

In the Coachella Valley, hundreds of trailer parks house desperately poor Latino workers amid burning trash, mud, contaminated water.
By David Kelly, Times Staff Writer
March 26, 2007

THERMAL, CALIF. — Like most of their neighbors in the sprawling, ramshackle Oasis Mobile Home Park, the Aguilars have no heat, no hot water. On cold nights, the family of eight stays warm by bundling up in layers of sweaters and sleeps packed together in two tiny rooms.

Bathing is a luxury that requires using valuable propane to boil gallons of water. So the farmworker clan spends a lot of time dirty.

Jose Aguilar, a wiry 9-year-old, has found a way around the bath problem. He just waits until dinner. "My mom makes frijoles," he said, "then I take a bath in that water."

Jose and his family live in a world few ever see, a vast poverty born in hundreds of trailer parks strung like a shabby necklace across the eastern Coachella Valley.

Out here — just a few miles from world-class golf resorts, private hunting clubs and polo fields — half-naked children toddle barefoot through mud and filth while packs of feral dogs prowl piles of garbage nearby.

Thick smoke from mountains of burning trash drifts through broken windows. People — sometimes 30 or more — are crammed into trailers with no heat, no air-conditioning, undrinkable water, flickering power and plumbing that breaks down for weeks or months at a time.

"I was speechless," said Haider Quintero, a Colombian training for the priesthood who recently visited the parks as part of his studies. "I never expected to see this in America."

Riverside County officials say there are between 100 and 200 illegal trailer parks in the valley, but the Coachella Valley Housing Coalition says the number could be as high as 500.

California Rural Legal Assistance says as few as 20 parks are legal, and they are often as dilapidated as the illegal ones. When county inspectors locate a park without permits, they prefer to let owners bring the place into compliance through loan and grant programs rather than evict the tenants.

Some of the largest and poorest parks are on the Torres Martinez Indian Reservation where they are not subject to local zoning laws and the county can't monitor safety, hygiene and building standards. The reservation is also home to the worst illegal dumps of any tribe in California, Arizona or Nevada, according to the Environmental Protection Agency. The federal agency has closed 10 of the 20 most toxic dumps and cited four of the largest trailer parks for health violations.

Despite the conditions, park owners say they are providing a vital service in an area where housing prices have soared.

"Before the parks, they were living in their cars, in the desert and bathing in the canals. Five guys would pay 50 bucks a month to share a camper shell," said Scott Lawson, a tribal member and co-owner of the Oasis park on the reservation. "Nobody cared when they lived like that, only when they moved into trailers. You can't expect the poorest to live like the wealthiest. They feel comfortable here; it's like being back in Mexico. They tell me that."

Lawson's 300-trailer park has been cited by the EPA for clean-water violations and was recently ordered to stop pumping raw sewage into the nearby Salton Sea.

"We had some citations about water but it's because we didn't know how to test it," he said. "I'm not ashamed of my place. There are a lot worse places than mine."

Exactly how many people live in the trailer parks is unknown, but social workers estimate tens of thousands. The biggest park, Desert Mobile Home Park, or "Duroville," has more than 4,000 residents and can be seen off California 195 near Thermal. Others are on private property and virtually invisible to passing motorists.

The tenants are almost entirely Latino farm or construction workers. Many are in the United States legally, but plenty are not. Their average income, according to county officials, is about $10,000 a year. Many parents rent out their children's rooms for extra money, leaving kids to sleep on floors or in sheds. Many families keep warm by burning grape stakes, which fill their trailers with toxic fumes.

In one nameless park on the reservation off Avenue 70 in Thermal, trailers with broken windows and unhinged doors sit against piles of trash. Box springs, tires, car parts are stacked 10 feet high. Sewage runs behind the trailers, and wild dogs yap and howl.

"This place has some of the worst conditions I have seen," said Sister Gabriella Williams, who does community outreach in the parks and is raising money to build a learning center for residents. "And it's actually gotten worse since I last saw it."

She picked her way through a yard that doubled as a trash heap.

"The park owners have to look into their own conscience as to why they run these kinds of places with these kind of conditions," she said. "They wouldn't want this in their backyard. They wouldn't tolerate it. We all need to recognize the dignity in each other."

Former resident Conrrada Valenzuela said she went three months without electricity, living by candlelight.

Maria Renosa, 35, from Guatemala, lives in the park now. She makes $7.25 an hour picking broccoli and shares a battered, sparsely furnished trailer with six other adults and her children, Edith, 2, and Frank, 3.

Renosa's husband was recently deported for being undocumented. "It would cost him $5,000 to return," she said. "I am not going back. What am I going to do there? I'd love to live somewhere else, but here it only costs $360 a month."

The EPA has cited park owner Robin Lawson for clean-water violations; Lawson could not be reached for comment. He is Scott Lawson's brother. Another brother, Kim, operated a vast, illegal dump for more than a decade that was shut down last year by a federal judge.

The presence of the parks on the reservation has frustrated Torres Martinez Tribal Chairman Raymond Torres.

"The owners started off with good intentions, then I think it overwhelmed them," he said. "I have a real problem with it. Someone is going to get hurt. I'd like to see the parks gone and the owners start over again."

But in the complex world of tribal sovereignty, Torres cannot close the parks; only the Bureau of Indian Affairs can. The bureau said last week that parks on the reservation are illegal because they do not issue bureau-approved leases to tenants. They are now threatening legal action against Duroville and said other parks could be next.

Trailer parks began springing up on Indian land largely because of a county crackdown. In 1998, after several fatal accidents caused by faulty wiring, Riverside County began closing parks that did not have permits and threatening to sue others not up to code. Faced with outrage from farmworker advocates and the Roman Catholic Church, who feared thousands could be rendered homeless, officials backed off, but not before many panicked park dwellers had moved onto the reservation.

"We wish we could wave a magic wand and make them go away," said County Supervisor Roy Wilson. "But we can't."

Adding to the misery is Kim Lawson's dump. Since 1992, it has burned paint cans, car batteries, plastic pipe and treated wood and other waste, throwing so many toxins into the air and soil that EPA said the dump represented an "endangerment [that] can be considered imminent and increasing over time."

And the dump, its smoke blowing for miles up and down the valley, sits right beside Duroville. A 2003 EPA memo reported some areas of the dump contained levels of dioxin 20 times the national average. Dioxin, a carcinogen, is one of the deadliest manufactured substances.

According to agency documents, soil samples revealed dioxin, PCBs and asbestos in Duroville itself. Citing the risks of cancer and other illnesses, the EPA urged the dump's immediate closure. The park remained open because the danger to it was not deemed "imminent," said agency attorney Letitia Moore.

Four years after the EPA recommendation, a federal judge in Riverside closed the dump in August. On Thursday, the judge ordered Lawson to pay $46.9 million to help clean up the mess. Since the facility was padlocked, there have been 20 fires — most the result of spontaneous combustion, said Ray Paiz, battalion chief with the Riverside County Fire Department. One fire in November nearly forced the evacuation of Duroville and nearby schools.

Smoke in the parks is as common as wild dogs and swirling dust. Health workers report that children suffer high levels of pulmonary illnesses, coughs, infections and skin rashes.

"These are almost Third World conditions," said Rosa Lucas, a nurse who runs the Oasis Clinic, across the road from a trailer park. "It's unbearable out there when there is burning. You literally can't go outside."

Although poverty is endemic in the parks, nothing rivals Duroville for sheer blight.

The 40-acre park is a grim, colorless warren of dirt roads with more than 300 trailers tightly packed inside. It's often hard to tell an abandoned scrap heap from a home. There are start-up businesses — car dealerships, a small taco stand and a restaurant specializing in Michoacan food — squeezed in amid the clutter. Trash blows here and there. Toddlers, some naked from the waist down, wander around in fetid muck. A wall surrounds part of the place, a thin barrier separating it from the dump.

What began as occupants of a few trailers seeking refuge from the county has turned into a vast slum bearing streets named after members of park owner Harvey Duro's family. Duro declined to comment for this article.

Efforts by the Bureau of Indian Affairs to close Duroville fizzled in 2003 when the owner agreed to make basic electrical and sewage improvements. Still, officials said, he has failed to provide tenants bureau-approved leases defining minimum living standards.

"He will have to come up with an approved lease or we will shut him down," said James Fletcher, the bureau's superintendent for Southern California.

Fletcher said all the parks on Indian land could be closed if they don't provide leases. "If that happens, where do the people go?" he asked. "I don't know."

Duroville is a bastion of poverty divided between the poor and the desperately poor. Among the most destitute are the Purepecha, an indigenous people from the Mexican state of Michoacan who speak neither Spanish nor English but their own language, Purepechan. They are often mocked by other Latinos who consider them backward.

In their culture, girls often marry young and drop out of school to have children.

Anjelica Serrano, a Purepechan, watched her children play in the dirt. "I got married at 15," she said through an interpreter, "and have five children."

She is 24.

At night, the dark streets come alive with thumping rap and mariachi music pouring from cars. Ice cream vendors work the narrow streets. Because there are no sidewalks, pedestrians keep a wary eye on traffic. Men gather in front of trailers, some drinking themselves into oblivion. Others have hard stares and watchful eyes. Residents say drug dealing is rife.

Theresa Argueta, 42, would leave if she could afford to. She lives in a two-bedroom trailer with her husband and eight children. The four boys sleep in the living room, the four girls in a tiny bedroom. Inside, the trailer is festooned with rosaries and statues of Our Lady of Guadalupe.

"The smoke has affected my children's health," she said. "When the smoke comes, they get bloody noses and have difficulty breathing."

On the other side of the park, Cesar Rafael, 17, a Purepechan, lives in his parents' trailer. He and several other students at Desert Mirage High School in Thermal made a short video about their world, "The Contaminated Valley," which was shown at school.

"I wanted people to see another side of life," he said. "Everything is poisonous here, even the water is poisonous. And nobody really cares about it. We are invisible."
 
And here's another to get Teddy R. rolling in his grave:

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-schoolme26mar26,1,7581577.column
BOB SIPCHEN / SCHOOL ME

Assimilation plays no part in this history lesson

Bob Sipchen
School Me

March 26, 2007

The 400-foot-long mural decorating two outside walls at Theodore Roosevelt High presents a colorful depiction of the rape, slaughter and enslavement of North America's indigenous people by genocidal Europeans.

On the wall of a building inside the chain-link fence, an oversized image of the school's namesake monocled Roughrider waves a sword heroically.

It's an interesting clash of historical perspectives, and I'll use it to poke at the question of how we should be teaching history now that Los Angeles public schools are overwhelmingly Latino.

I stumbled on the beautifully painted call for the descendants of Aztecs and other native cultures to reclaim their continent while hiking around the well-secured Boyle Heights campus in search of an entrance. Now I stand drinking in its full effect with artist Nelyollotl Toltecatl and the man he credits with enlightening him to North America's true history, Olin Tezcatlipoca.

I tracked these two down through an odd little website, http://www.stolencontinent.org . The massive mural — it's more than 18 feet tall at its peak — is a project of "the Mexica Movement," a small but disproportionately outraged cadre whose rhetoric pushes hard against the boundary between political expression and bigotry. A note to a "European," for example, proclaims: "Your people are … inferior to us in your morals, ethics, and humanity — by your collective actions of the last 500 years."

The mural, like the website, offers a blunt assessment of history. If the hundreds of students who swarm by each day looked up from their iPods and cellphones, they couldn't help but notice the churning stream of skulls in the wake of Columbus' Nina, Pinta and Santa Maria. They would read that Europeans used smallpox like a WMD and that "Spaniards took babies from their mothers breast and smashed their heads against rocks." They would learn that the Aztecs and other civilizations of native North America were among the most successful on Earth but that "this greatness and wealth was stolen from us by Europeans."

Roosevelt High these days is 99.1% Latino. Not that the Mexica Movement has any patience with that term. "We reject the right of Europeans to define who we are," the website says. "We reject their occupation of our continent and their occupation of our DNA."

Roosevelt's principal, Cecilia Quemada, has not returned any of the messages I've left in many months of calling. Richard Chavez, with the local district office, was more polite. He said he had been an assistant principal at the school when a community member first floated the idea for a modestly scaled mural.

In 1996, Toltecatl, who then went by a name he now sees as a vestige of Spanish atrocities, set to work on an uncontroversial depiction of Chicano history, complete with a tribute to assimilation. He was perhaps a year and several dozen linear feet into the artwork when he attended a lecture by Tezcatlipoca, whose own views of history had changed late in life, when he began to read radical reinterpretations of the American conquest, including "American Holocaust."

That book, by David E. Stannard, teaches something most historians dismiss as egregious overstatement: that "95% of our people were killed by Europeans," Tezcatlipoca says. "I'm 57 years old. I grew up in East L.A. I didn't know any of this as a kid."

Under Tezcatlipoca's guidance, the artist spent the next several years working day and night to paint a less magnanimous vision of the past.

I tend to hear two types of complaints about how history is taught at this moment when Latinos (er, Mexicas?) are consolidating power in L.A.

On the one hand there's the father who called to say his son was humiliated when a teacher yanked down a map of North America and said any white students in the class should be ashamed of the atrocities their ancestors had inflicted on the continent.

Then there are the students, including many I met outside Roosevelt, who say that they've learned nothing in their years of public education about the accomplishments of people from Mexico or Central America.

Sal Castro helped lead the Los Angeles student walkouts of 1968, in part to protest the sense of inferiority schools instilled in non-white students. The retired teacher says history texts are barely more inclusive now than they were almost four decades back.

"We have no heroes," he says.

He rattles off dozens of Mexican Americans who deserve a place in America's official pantheon but remain largely ignored. He quotes the late Times reporter Ruben Salazar: "No man can find a true expression for living who is ashamed of himself or his people."

As my two strikingly pleasant Mexica guides and I buttonhole the high schoolers streaming by the mural, I'm struck by how few seem to have given it more than a glance, by how few demonstrate much grasp of any history — Latino, U.S., world, whatever.

UCLA history professor emeritus Gary Nash, who directs the National Center for History in the Schools, is on an intellectual rampage to rectify this. He warns against teaching only "smiley face" view of the past.

"Do not try to skirt the dark, tragic episodes," he says. "If you do, you will only produce cynics. If you do, when [high school students] get to college and learn a more honest approach, they will say, 'Why did you tell all these lies?' "

He also warns, however, against teaching "victims' history … the story of people who are exploited…. We prefer to teach struggle and survival and getting American society to live up to its ideals, the agenda set down in the era of the American revolution. It's a much more honest and useful history."

I ask Tezcatlipoca about this shared struggle, if there's not something to teaching students that America is a melting pot — e pluribus unum — the one place where people from different backgrounds can live together and try to work things out without obsessing on the past.

He doesn't buy it. He notes that Jews haven't forgotten their Holocaust. He says Los Angeles remains horribly segregated.

"Not where I live," I say.

The homes on my small Mt. Washington loop are inhabited by three African American households, two Asian households, a Latino household and several families whose DNA is largely, for lack of a better term, "European."

We get along. Perhaps because of shared values learned in history classes.

I like our neighborhood. I hope we don't have to give it back.

*
 
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