Illinois Suggestion and possible activism...

[Autolycus]

I was thinking about something the other day. I was told that the Illinois State Police have 30 days in which to issue new FOID cards or renewals. I was talking to a few other people and they said that some groups and people were successfully sueing the Illinois State Police for non-compliance since they could not issue the permits within 30 days.

If that is true, then why dont all of us gunowners and our friends renew our licenses on the same day. Have everyone send out their renewal applications and new applications for their friends and family. Use the USPS to track the arrival of the applications and to keep a copy of the checks that were cashed. This way we have proof that they were recieved and accepted. We just wait and hope they cannot issue them in time and we sue the Illinois State Police and Illinois Government.

If we overload them with work and sue them for non-compliance perhaps we can get some sort of change. Not to mention we can get some cash to fund gun rights movements if need be.

Any thoughts? If they get 125,000 renewals and new applications a year, imagine if they got 300,000 or so. If we could do that, perhaps they will be forced to pay out and hopefully fire some people from the overgrown bereaucracy that is the Illinois State government. Not to mention that we may hopefully get them to reappeal the FOID card.

The worst that I see happening is that they extend the deadline the state has to issue the cards.

 

[vito]

Have you ever actually tried to sue a State government? Your chances are virtually nill on succeeding, and the end result would be AT BEST, a court ordering the state to do better in meeting its own obligations. No court would award monetary damages to individuals when there is no monetary loss incurred, only inconvenience, due to the state not processing applications in a timely manner. I work in a highly regulated industry where state official routinely fail to meet their self imposed regulatory deadlines and I can't even get an apology from the officials involved. They just shrug and say they are understaffed and I just have to live with it or go to another state.

 

[Neo-Luddite]

My wife and I have two little girls and go on short vacations to campy/kitchie tourist attractions that have those novely penny crushing machines--for fifty cents your penny gets crushed into a little souvenier. Pennies are pretty soft, either copper or zinc/copper; except for the 1943 penny which is solid steel. Every time we let the kids crush a penny, I have a dark fantasy of seeing just exactly what would happen to the penny crushing machine if I stuck a 1943 'war' penny in there. I'm pretty sure it would destroy the machine.

I am quite sure that what you are proposing would destroy Illinois FOID making machine which (AFAIK) is already being run using power supplied by a half-rationed geriatric hamster running on a wheel somewhere in basement in a Springfield.

I think the idea is a very interesting, and if it got some press coverage when the gears clashed might raise attention, but I fear that it would do little to sway the hearts and minds of people already afraid of the state collapsing.

I'm waiting on my renewal right now; it expires at the end of February 08 and I sent it in on November 30th.

 

[Len S]

IO have a feeling that if we do this they will say that they are understaffed and underfunded and raise the foid to 15.00/year or higher. With Blaggo, Badigan, Evil Jones and Daleonivich, figure what is the worst thing that THEY can do in response then triple it. It does not have to be right, ethical, or even legal. It just has to be what they want to do.


Len S

 

[Autolycus]

Its a thought. And I believe that Neo-Luddite hit the nail on the head. I would like to destroy the FOID machine. In a sense if enough people organized it we could possibly do it.

Was there a hubbub about the delay of applications taking over 30 days? I seem to remember it.

Perhaps instead of suing the state government we could sue the state police? Perhaps for violation of the law or our civil rights?

 

[lee n. field]

Was there a hubbub about the delay of applications taking over 30 days? I seem to remember it.

Not that I recall. Second most recent renewal I did, they were months behind, and did not (as required by law) ever inform me of the upcoming renewal.

On their side of it, the law has no teeth.

 

[ilbob]

The ISP has routinely violated the law requiring them to issue in 30 days for a long time. I think they just don't care one way or the other if they obey the law because there is no penalty for failing to abide by it.

I read somewhere that they recently outsourced a big chunk of the process.

One would think that it would not be all that hard to automate the checking of the various databases electronically so that all that has to be entered is an applicants basic information and the rest is FM. One would also think that renewals would be real easy to deal with. But you are dealing with a government bureaucracy that if it was a business would have gone bankrupt a long time ago our of sheer management incompetence (not just the ISP at fault here - every computer system the state has is a disaster).

 

[Robert Hairless]

Ilbob, I'm surprised to hear that every computer system the state of Illinois has is a disaster. Why doesn't the state send its computer systems to Chicago and have them fixed. I understand that you can get anything fixed in Chicago as long as there's a Daley as Mayor.

 

[Autolycus]

Yes the Daley family can fix anything. Even death, as evidenced by their constituency.

 

[Neo-Luddite]

Tecumseh, I admire your idealism on the FOID issue 100%. At best, you could call the FOID an anachronism that has been superseeded by NICS checks. Also, it does NOTHING that a driver's license can't for cops and citizens alike. But in fairness, you have to admit the program as outlined would be more akin to 'monkey wrenching' than activism. In Illinois, it might even be an offense to organize such an action; write your state rep a note outlining the idea and maybe they'll name the new law that prohibits it in your honor--now THAT would be something to tell the grandkids!

BTW--is there a mechanism in IL for recalling the Gov.??

 

[scout26]

Not a good idea.

1. The ISP would and could hold off on anyone sending their renewals in more then 90 days prior to expiration.

2. ISP: "Well your honor, we'd be faster, but we just don't have the money, people and resources to do the job."
Judge: "Wow, your right !!!! FOID cards will now cost $100 per year to cover the costs. Oh, and try to get them done faster."
ISP: "Oh, we will, Scouts Honor."

3. Us: "Waaah, I didn't get my FOID card in a timely manner."
Judge: "Did you get arrested, home raided, firearms taken away ??? Show me how you've been harmed ?? Case dismissed."

4. One word: "RICO". The state may take a dim view of an organized campaign to monkey-wrench the FOID system.

There is a procedure to get the FOID act repealed. It involves getting 2% of population to sign petitions to get it put on the ballot. Then 50% +1 has to vote "Chuck it". Jeff White posted it in another thread.

Ahhh, my search-fu is strong today......here it is: Post #14 in this thread http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=324901

BTW--is there a mechanism in IL for recalling the Gov.??

No, but the Chicago Tribune has been adjutating for a recall provision to be put on the ballot.

 

[AirplaneDoc]

Move out of this FUBAR state Illinois Thats my plan.

Spend your hard earned $ in another state

Get a item on the ballot to remove the area north of I80 and east of I39 from the rest of the state. I understand that Wisconsin dosn't want it either, so I guess it would have to be the 51st state.

 

[scout26]

I'll stay and fight, thank you.

Evil is not overcome by fleeing from it.

 

[ilbob]

I'll stay and fight, thank you.

Evil is not overcome by fleeing from it.

Usually the only way to defeat evil of this magnitude is to kill it. That would be illegal in this case.

I'm not sure what the real answer is. Maybe we get lucky and Daley, Blago, and their cronies go to club fed before a Democrat gets elected president and puts a new US attorney in place to save their bacon.

Even then, it is unlikely to change much. The next group of crooks will just take over. Maybe state bankruptcy is the answer. Things could not get a whole lot worse then they are now.

 

[scout26]

I'm not sure what the real answer is. Maybe we get lucky and Daley, Blago, and their cronies go to club fed before a Democrat gets elected president and puts a new US attorney in place to save their bacon.

Even if Patrick Fitzgerald indicts Daley, Blago, the entire Chicago City Council, the entire Cook County Board, and every Democrat Leader in the State House and Senate, the people that would replace them are just as anti-2A.

The Pro 2A resolution is gaining momentum. A favorable ruling in Heller will be a turning point in dismantling Chicago's and Cook County gun controls.

The tide is slowly starting to turn in Illinois. The only way to keep it flowing our way is to keep pushing. Like I said, I'll stay and fight. I don't think we can kill it, but we can keep pushing it into a smaller and smaller box.

Things could not get a whole lot worse then they are now.

Permits to purchase, "Safety" Inspections, one gun a month, statewide AWB, Lead Ammo ban, Micro-stamping, etc. I can think of a whole bunch of things that could make things worse here.

What's important is that we call, write, and visit our elected officals and keep the pressure up so that no new gun control passes and we rollback existing gun control.

What's the old saying " When you're the hammer, strike. When you're the anvil, bear."

 

[Autolycus]

How about some other suggestions? Fanny packing marches downtown? What about asking the PD for an escort everytime we leave the house. It seems the police departments and the state have taken the position that they will protect us from any harm or bad guys.

What if we call the police hourly and ask for drive bys? Or we sue everytime we are victimized in a manner where a gun may have prevented the crime? What if we flood the 9/11 centers because we are afraid since the government has decided to keep us disarmed?

 

[ilbob]

Things could not get a whole lot worse then they are now.

Permits to purchase, "Safety" Inspections, one gun a month, statewide AWB, Lead Ammo ban, Micro-stamping, etc. I can think of a whole bunch of things that could make things worse here.

I was not thinking so much about bad gun laws as just bad in general. There are issues other than guns.

 

[scout26]

I was not thinking so much about bad gun laws as just bad in general. There are issues other than guns.

True, I'm acutally rooting for the RTA/CTA to go bust. Maybe then they'll privatize it. I hope the deomcrats keep up the infighting but only if the republicans are smart enough to get rid of the "combine" powers that be (like Kjellander) and run a conservative, rather then a "I'm slightly less liberal then my Democrat opponent", candidate. The state party didn't seem to notice that in the last primary, the three conservative candidates for governor split ~62% of vote. Judy Baar Topinka only got like ~38%

I'd like to see Blago, Madigan, and Jones bankrupt the state, then pull a Daley/Stroeger and raise taxes. We all saw how well Blago's Gross Reciepts Tax went [for those outside of Illinois state, it was shot down in the House 117-0. After which the Governor replied: "I think today was an up"].

If the republicans fail to captialize on this situation, then they're complete idiots and deserve to be margainilized in this state.

 

[scout26]

1.

Fanny packing marches downtown?

I'll assume you mean Chicago. Currently illegal to posses a handgun in Chicago, and they could successfully argue that you're not traveling through on your way somewhere else where you could legally shoot the gun. I'll pass on spending time at 26th and California for blatantly violating the law.

2.

What about asking the PD for an escort everytime we leave the house. It seems the police departments and the state have taken the position that they will protect us from any harm or bad guys.

USSC has held (repeatedly) that the PD have no duty to protect. Best that happens is they tell you "No" and just put you on the "crackpot" list.

3.

What if we call the police hourly and ask for drive bys?

See point 2 above.

4.

Or we sue everytime we are victimized in a manner where a gun may have prevented the crime?

Again, there is no duty to protect and good luck finding an attorney that will take the case, unless you're willing to give him piles of money upfront.

5.

What if we flood the 9/11 centers because we are afraid since the government has decided to keep us disarmed?

Monkeywrenching the .gov normally incurs the .gov's wrath. Don't expect to find a very sympathetic jury when the Sheriff/Police Chief/Fire Chief/Ambulance Service tells the jury: "We had several people die in fires, car accidents, and other incidents because Tecumseh and his buddies were tying up the 911 system with calls asking for an escort to the grocery store every 2 minutes."


Rather then trying to monkeywrench the system, how about teaching, organizing and coordinating to change the system. Yeah, not as romantic as being a revolutionary and standing up to "The Man", but most revolutionaries end-up being put in front of a wall or spending lots of time in prison. Not to mention being written off as a crank (like Shaun Kranish) by the very people we're trying to bring to our side (The majority of Illinois residents.)

 

[Kingcreek]

My FOID renewal is sitting on my desk. I'm not going to send it much before 30 days before the expiration. Last time I re-applied, it was delayed for a couple months because my name is a common name and the first tier computer check gave 49 felony "hits" associated with my name. I was told they then had to do a cross check by human hand against addresses, BD, middle initial, etc. When my card expired and I still had not rec'd my new one, I started calling state reps and senators, the governors office, etc. I spent an afternoon calling and "educating" the beaureacrats, polite but firm and persistant. The I got a call from the director of the ISP firearm division (seems he was getting calls from reps and senators and the govs office!). They fast tracked my app but more important was that I was able to tell my story and protest to the ears that might make a difference.
I'm gearing up for a repeat with phone calls letters to the editor, etc. If they are going to insist we law-abiding gun owners continue this FOID nonsense, I'm going to raise a fuss in the process.
Maybe won't change anything, but then again...

 

[kermit315]

I cant stand FOID. Period. Not sure how the state would deal with FOID getting destroyed. Might end up with DROS at $25 a pop and 10 day waits as retribution/money generation.

I am for doing something about it, just need to make sure what we do hits the right people the right way.

 

[Nanook]

For what it's worth, I recently renewed my FOID. I sent it in late August, even though it wasn't due until this month. I was allowing for the months long delay I'd been hearing about.

I got the card in just over a week. I can't figure that one out at all.

Government at any level is hard to figure out.

And I'm certainly not one to defend the Glorious People's Republic of Illinois and their minions.

 

[Len S]

I would love to see the "outside of chicago influence" members of the state leglislature hold the cta/rta funding hostage in return for ccw in IL. Once the new year starts the republicans lose their power because the dems no longer need a super majority. If you want to know why things stalled and how conviently the CTA put their doomsday till after the new year look no further. They dragged thius thing out knowing they were going to get the stopgap funding they needed. I believe this was a play to show that the Gov is not in S--tcago's pocket. I aslo believe that Madigan, Jones , and theBlaggo were all in this together.

Len

 

[Neo-Luddite]

Just got my bank statement and they cashed their $5.00 check on 5 Dec.

No FOID card in the mail today.

No notice to renew ever received.

Old one pops on Feb 1st.

If I haven't got satisfaction prior to that date I guess I'll change my handle to 'neo-felon'.

Think I can get a pro-rated refund if I miss any days of hunting as a result?

Happy new year!

 

[ilbob]

For what it's worth, I recently renewed my FOID. I sent it in late August, even though it wasn't due until this month. I was allowing for the months long delay I'd been hearing about.

I got the card in just over a week. I can't figure that one out at all.

I read somewhere they outsourced a big chunk of hamdling FOID card processing. Maybe it made a difference.