Illinois update

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mack

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Okay, I took off work to get to the hearing that was supposed to be today - found out just before the hearing that SB1195 and the rest of the gun bills had been pulled - supposedly late yeaterday around 5:30pm. Before the hearing I went around to Senate and House offices to ask them to oppose Daley's gun ban bills.

However, when I got to the hearing there was just the ISRA rep Jim and me and two other people. Later I did see about 5 or 6 gentlemen enter the room wearing items of clothing with ISRA or NRA logos. The gun control lobbiest came over to the ISRA rep and sarcastically asked him, where all his people were. Per ISRA website Daley is going to bus in supporters to the hearing on Thursday - we must get a better turn out - so please find a way come hell or high water to get to Springfield on Thursday. As noted the exact time and room for the hearing hasn't been set - which I cynically take as a way for the antis to keep us from attending the hearing - I am sure Daley and his bunch already know the time and place. Per what they said at the judiciary committee meeting today - they will have the hearing as soon as the Senate closes business for the day - which the chairperson said could be as early as 10:30am or as late as 3pm.

If I or anyone else gets a better handle on the time and place for Thursday please post it.

Also keep up the calls - call again yourself - get everyone you know to call or if they have already called to call again. Below is the copy on the ISRA website. Also don't forget to write letters to the editor - get the message out what these bills will do to gun owners in Illinois so more people will be encouraged to get involved.

From ISRA: http://www.isra.org/

YOUR IMMEDIATE ACTION REQUIRED

COMMITTEE VOTE ON DALEY GUN BAN
MOVED TO THURSDAY MARCH 13TH
TIME AND ROOM NUMBER TO BE DETERMINED

CLICK HERE TO READ WHY THE HEARING WAS MOVED!

YOU MUST DO THE FOLLOWING TODAY!:

Call Senator Cullerton at (217) 782-7260 and tell him to vote "NO" on SB1195
Call Senator Harmon at (217) 782-8176 and tell him to vote "NO" on SB1195
Call Senator Clayborne at (217) 782-5399 and tell him to vote "NO" on SB1195
Call Senator Silverstein at (217) 782-5500 and tell him to vote "NO" on SB1195
Call Senator Obama at (217) 782-5338 and tell him to vote "NO" on SB1195

The future of your gun rights will be determined Thursday!


Also here is the state of Illinois legislative website - there you can find out all about each bill simply by entering the bills number - the bills are:


http://www.legis.state.il.us/

HB0551 – no recommendation – deals with publishing a list of prohibited firearms – zinc guns and buildings used for unlawful gun sales
HB1095 – support - voids local restrictive gun laws
HB1377 – no recommendation – deals with making it a crime to be in the business of selling guns without an FFL
HB1379 – oppose – lets retired police carry concealed guns
HB1625 – oppose - requires ballistic finger printing of all guns sold or worked on by a gunsmith
HB2513 – oppose - bans 50 caliber weapons – possession and sale
HB2532 – oppose – creates a state may issue gun dealer license
HB2580 – oppose – bans possession and sale of magazines greater than 10 rounds
HB2583 – oppose – requires ballistic finger printing of pistols and revolvers
HB2632 – oppose – bans possession and sale of semi-automatic assault weapons and magazines over 10 rounds
HB2821 – support – shall issue CCW law
HB3631 – support – voids local restrictive gun laws
SB0238 – oppose – bans buying more than one handgun in a 30 day period and creates a database of gun purchases
SB0474 – oppose – lets retired police officers carry concealed firearms
SB0686 – no recommendation – allows businesses in firearm manufacturing to work on silencers ect.
SB1195 – oppose – bans possession and sale of semi-automatic assault weapons and magazines over 10 rounds
SB1197 – oppose – requires ballistic finger printing of pistols and revolvers
SB1206 – oppose – creates a state may issue gun dealer license
SB1326 – oppose – 10 day waiting period on handgun sales
SB1481 – oppose – expands unlawful sale to include give or transfer and bans obtaining more than one handgun in 30 days.

Please people - lets roll on this.


I will be there Thursday again - more info tomorrow - if you want to meet me there - let me know - I'll add my email to my profile.
 
Also if you are from Illinos or even if you aren't, you can help - copy, paste, and post the above information on as many gun forums as you can - there are still alot of Illinois gun owners who don't know what is going on, or don't know what they can do, or who need encouragement to get active.
 
don't be surprised if Sarah Brady or some of her Wash DC minions are there Thursday.

Kinda odd that both the Maryland and Illinois AWBs are being debated on the exact same day
 
That's what I hear. I wasn't there yesterday because I was sure it had been moved. I'll be there Thursday. If I get a chance to testify, I plan to mention the fact that a lot of good people were denied the chance to show up and testify against the bill because of Daley's machinations.

If the rumors of bused-in school children are true, I will also question that publicly. No pussy-footing around. They'll probably cut me off (as is the chair's right) but I'll get it out there before they do.

I may be leaving, but that doesn't mean I won't fight.
 
Here is the latest from ISRA, I should be there, email me if you want to meet or need some help or directions.


RED ALERT

YOUR IMMEDIATE ACTION REQUIRED

COMMITTEE VOTE ON DALEY GUN BAN
IS SET FOR THURSDAY MARCH 13TH
10:30 AM - ROOM 212 CAPITOL BUILDING

CLICK HERE FOR SPECIAL HEARING INFORMATION!

GUN OWNERS - KEEP UP THE HEAT - DO THE FOLLOWING TODAY!:

Call Senator Cullerton at (217) 782-7260 and tell him to vote "NO" on SB1195
Call Senator Harmon at (217) 782-8176 and tell him to vote "NO" on SB1195
Call Senator Clayborne at (217) 782-5399 and tell him to vote "NO" on SB1195
Call Senator Silverstein at (217) 782-5500 and tell him to vote "NO" on SB1195
Call Senator Obama at (217) 782-5338 and tell him to vote "NO" on SB1195

The future of your gun rights will be determined Thursday!


Info on Judiciary Committee Hearing for SB 1195
1. The hearing is scheduled for some time around 10:30 AM on Thursday March 13th.
2. The room number is supposed to be Room 212 of the Capitol...but that is subject to change so if you attend, keep your eyes open for changes!
3. If you attend, and we hope you do, please be sure to fill out a witness slip.
4. While you are down there in Springfield, be sure to stop by your Senator's office and your Rep's office and tell them that you oppose SB1195 and the ENTIRE Daley Gun Grab Package.
5. Be advised that Daley plans to have a large contingent of Chicago cops there Thursday to testify in favor of passing SB1195...don't be intimidated.
6. Be advised that Daley plans to have a couple of bus loads of Chicago school kids and "victims" in Springfield too.
7. Of course, your tax dollars are paying for Daley's dog and pony show.
8. Sarah Brady's Western Regional Director will be there to testify in favor of the confiscation of your guns. Rumor has it that the cackling old crow herself might be there to shore up the Daley attack on your rights!
9. Tell all your friends to be there!
10. Stay tuned to this web site for further information!



I would add:


Illinois gun owners we need to act now!

You need to be there on Thursday and bring a friend or family if possible. Remember one woman gun owner is worth four white male gun owners, seeing progun women shocks the heck out of them and gets them to thinking that maybe this really is unpopular enough to lose them votes.
 
I called. got 2 "voice mail full mssgs" so must be alot of calls. I just hope it is more of US than THEM! also called my local rep and senator (both pro gun) Not much chance of me being there tomorrow but I'm still working on that too.
 
Great job Kingcreek, God bless ya - I hope you can be there tomorrow - I'd be happy to meet ya and shake your hand.

Remember folks if a loved one died you wouldn't be going to work - well your rights and your kids and your grandkids rights are dying. "What did you do when they took our guns away daddy - ummmm I went to work?"

But, if you really really really really can't be there then please call and call and call, both the legislators and your friends so they can call too.
 
I will be down in Springfield again on thurs for the Senate hearing - I will probably get there between 9:40 and 10Am, baring another last minute cancellation by Daley - but since he is bussing people in I expect it will happen this time. If anyone wants to attend and wants to meet me there email me or post it here.
 
I plan to be there by 8:30. I want to spend some time chatting with bus drivers and organizers to see if they know what's going on. You can't miss me; if the sun is suddenly blotted out, I'm between you and it. I'm the big fat guy in the brown jacket.

I just called and arranged a sub, so I'm staying home either way--this better be the right day! ;)
 
Well, that was certainly . . . . something.


First, to clear up a few things. According to Sen. Cullerton, the reason the hearings were delayed was that a witness from Chicago died over the weekend and his funeral was Tuesday. No idea if that's true, but it's certainly possible. There were no busloads of school children, nor were there any police officers forced to appear on the clock (although a guy named Schafer, a muckety-muck at CPD, did testify on behalf of CPD.)

Next, the good news. Turnout was very good. We filled the seats, the room, and the hall outside! The other side had just about no one. There may have been people there who were on their side besides their sponsors and 5-6 witnesses, but I didn't see them. And most of the bills either weren't called or got shot down.

Now, the bad news. The only bill that made it out of the committee was the worst--SB1195, the Assault Weapons Ban. One Senator Dillard rolled over on us and voted for it, then voted present on all the others. He said he was passing it with the understanding that "people will show me the statistics" and "prove there's a link between assault weapons and crime." It's hard to tell whether he's actually reachable or not. It's hard to imagine he voted that way without some kind of deal. I plan to call his home office tomorrow and ask to be put on his callback list. If he calls, I'll let everyone know how it goes.

The other bills called were the one-handgun a month limit, the FOID fee increase and fingerprinting and training requirements, and civil liability for private gun transfers, all of which were voted down. They also called the bill on background checks at guns shows--essentially, a requirement that all private transactions at gun shows be done through FFLs. That one was basically tabled, but I'm not sure it's gone. It should be, because I believe this weekend is the deadline for new bills (for the legislature, the weekend begins early Thursday afternoon.) But I'm not confident enough of my knowledge of the rules to say for certain. That one was kind of odd. The sponsor and the NRA lobbyist (the infamous Todd Vandermyde) sparred back and forth on the bill for a few minutes, then the chair (Cullerton) sent them both out of the room for 2 minutes to work out a compromise. Apparently, they decided together that the sponsor would withdraw the bill for now. Hard to say what Mr. Vandermyde might have traded for that. I'm not sure how far I trust him, although he did well for us today. I got the impression that the NRA wasn't really opposed to the bill in principle (though Vandermyde said they were) but only quibbling over details. For instance, the bill defined "gun show" as any gathering, no matter how large or small, sponsored by any national, state or local group, or for the purpose of collecting or sporting purposes. So your local IDPA match and the Ducks Unlimited dinner would become gun shows!
To be honest, I had to wonder whether Vandermyde was playing to the room and the reason Cullerton sent him out was that he realized that and wanted to give him a chance to speak where we wouldn't be listening. Of course, if that were the case, he could simply have made a deal and come back in to support the bill.

I just want to applaud the leadership of one Illinois gun company in particular--Armalite from Geneseo. They make the AR-50, AR-15 variants, and the AR-180B, so obviously if the assault weapons ban passes they go out of business. They told me they will move the entire factory--and all 80 jobs, and the third-leading source of employment in Geneseo--to Iowa if that happens. They can't afford to make that move, but the lady sitting next to me told me they would offer their banks the choice of either making new loans or taking truckloads of banned firearms as repayment.

You could tell these people were torn up inside over the potential loss of their business, but when Dillard voted the way he did, with stipulations that he would demand exceptions for government contracts (yes, this bill would have banned the manufacture, shipping and sale of "assault weapons" to police and military groups!) they booed and hissed just like anyone else. Those provisions would save their business, but they want to sell firearms to ordinary citizens whether they absolutely have to do so to make it or not. Now I want an AR-180B and an AR-50 even more.

The Armalite folks stated that the whole thing was so secretive and so sudden that they had no time to prepare. Their attorney was in court this morning, though with all the delays he made it in time to be there (the thing was scheduled for room 212 at 10:30, changed to 12:00 in room 400, delayed at 12:30, delayed at 1:00, got under way at 1:30 and lasted until 4:00.) They said they'd called Springfield Armory to see what their plans were only to find out Springfield Armory had not known the hearing was today. SA was able to send their lawyer, at least. All Armalite had time to do was to have their employees spend yesterday calling legislators on the company's dime. They literally told employees to forget production, find a phone and call for all they were worth.
 
He said he was passing it with the understanding that "people will show me the statistics" and "prove there's a link between assault weapons and crime."
Click to expand...

http://www.urban.org/crime/aw/AWFINAL1.htm



At best, the assault weapons ban can have only a limited effect on total gun murders, because the banned weapons and magazines were never involved in more than a modest fraction of all gun murders. Our best estimate is that the ban contributed to a 6.7 percent decrease in total gun murders between 1994 and 1995, beyond what would have been expected in view of ongoing crime, demographic, and economic trends. However, with only one year of post-ban data, we cannot rule out the possibility that this decrease reflects chance year-to-year variation rather than a true effect of the ban. Nor can we rule out effects of other features of the 1994 Crime Act or a host of state and local initiatives that took place simultaneously. Further, any short-run preventive effect observable at this time may ebb in the near future as the stock of grandfathered assault weapons and legal substitute guns leaks to secondary markets, then increase as the stock of large-capacity magazines gradually dwindles.

We were unable to detect any reduction to date in two types of gun murders that are thought to be closely associated with assault weapons, those with multiple victims in a single incident and those producing multiple bullet wounds per victim. We did find a reduction in killings of police officers since mid-1995. However, the available data are partial and preliminary, and the trends may have been influenced by law enforcement agency policies regarding bullet-proof vests.

The following pages explain these findings in more detail, and recommend future research to update and refine our results at this early post-ban stage.
 
Kind Of Confused

I am trying to find out the outcome of the hearing today. I am an IL resident stationed in VA, and I am trying to find out what is going on with the CCW law. I would really love to be able to move to IL when my enlistment is up (a couple more months) and continue to carry my concealed weapon. VA has spoiled me with being able to carry on an almost daily basis. I am going out to sea tomorrow, and will not be able to check the posts, but if someone could email me the information at [email protected] I would greatly appreciate it.

Jason
 
Good and Bad news on Illinois gun legislation

Attended the State Senate Committee heating today. The short story is all the gun control legislation was either not passed or withdrawn because they didn't have the votes to pass it - all that is except the worst bill of the bunch SB1195 the semi-auto ban that also includes provisions to ban magazines over 10 rounds and ban all 50 caliber weapons, which as written would include shotguns, modern muzzle loaders, and pistols. As written it would also require that all magazines and semi-auto so called assault weapons would have to be turned in, destroyed, or removed from the state. It also included no exemption for dealers or manufacturers – meaning that Springfield Armory, DSA, and Armalite would all be in violation and would have to shut down or move out of state. Also no Illinois gun dealer could sell any high capacity magazines or so called assault weapons in Illinois – even to police. There was no exemption for police or military either – only an affirmative defense clause – meaning that a police officer or national guardsman could be arrested and charged with a felony for possessing an assault weapon – and could get off – but only after going to court and raising the defense in court.

Daley’s waterboy Senator who sponsored the bill was unable to answer basic questions about the bill and when pressed kept back-pedaling and saying things like, “uhhhh, well we could look at that,†and ummmm I’m don’t think that was what was intended,†and “we could probably change that.â€

The NRA was there not only the Illinois NRA lobbiest, but also a young gun out of headquarters. Also there were between 100 to 200 gun owners – mostly ISRA members there at the committee hearing.

When the vote came on SB1195 what happened was that the NRA was able to pressure and deal with a Democrat on the committee and one other Democrat also turned our way – but a downstate republican stabbed us in the back. The bill passed with two Senators, (one Democrat and one republican), saying they would vote for it if significant revisions could be made to it, (implied revisions included grandfathering weapons, making sure muzzle loaders and shotguns were okay, making dealers and manufacturers exempt, making cops and military exempt, ect….a long list), the sponsoring senator agreed to hold the bill from the senate floor until the differences could be addressed and worked out with the NRA and ISRA representatives. However the NRA and ISRA reps told them to stick it, that they weren’t going to help them write a watered down bill and pass it. Therefore any changes in the bill are likely to be from the one republican and one Democrat who voted yes with resevations. However the “promise†by Daley’s waterboy to hold the bill and not present it to the full senate for vote is not binding and the NRA reps figure he will wait a week and then put it up for a vote in the full senate, with or without revisions. They feel there is still a good chance of defeating the bill – especially if there aren’t extensive revisions – as even many Democrats are wary of it the way it is.

Interesting notes:

Met a gun dealer from Southern Illinois who was in Somalia in the BlackHawk Down incident and was wounded in the fight. The NRA rep found out and had him testify on SB1195 – He really put the anti’s back on their heals.

When the Western Coordinator – their top gun – for the Brady Campaign testified on the semi-auto ban, he stated that it was important to pass this bill in Illinois because the federal assault weapons ban would expire in 2004 and not be re-enacted.

NRA reps reported that only the Brady Campaign and Chicago PD testified for the bill as for a change the FOP and Sheriffs assoc and other police orgs all opposed SB1195.

One other bit of bad news – while we were all in the Senate – they pulled a fast one in the house – after the state license for FFL’s lost in the senate – they suddenly brought it up in the house in the house version of the bill – this was unexpected because it was believed that they wouldn’t since they didn’t have the votes on the house committee to pass it – but they also then removed a Democrat rep from the committee who wouldn’t vote for the bill and replaced him with another Democrat rep who would vote for it and it passed.

The upshot is no clear victory but things look a little better over-all then they did yesterday. For everyone who called, wrote, or showed up – just know that you had a impact.

The next step is to keep up the pressure by calling your senator and rep and letting them know not to pass the Daley gun bills. The NRA reps suggested that you get one or two friends and arrange that you each call on alternate days and call their home office as well as their Springfield office. Also letters or post cards with your name and address – so they know you are an active voter in their district is very helpful. So please let us not stop now lets get even busier. The senate vote on SB1195 could happen anytime – probably in the next two weeks so plan on making arrangements so you can be there now.

I’m sure I missed some important stuff but I’m tired, more later.
 
Illinois: "Daley's gun-control bill fails:

http://www.suntimes.com/output/news/gun13.html

Daley's gun-control bill fails

March 13, 2003

BY JOHN O'CONNOR ASSOCIATED PRESS

SPRINGFIELD--A key Illinois Senate committee on Thursday rejected most of a gun-control package backed by Chicago Mayor Richard Daley, even with his fellow Democrats controlling the panel for the first time in a decade.

Two Democrats on the Judiciary Committee joined Republicans in assailing the proposals to fingerprint and photograph people getting firearm owner's cards and to raise fees for those cards. They also assailed proposals which would also have required criminal background checks for purchases at gun shows and limited handgun purchases to one a month.

"What right does the state have to tell me how many guns I can buy a month?" asked Todd Vandermyde, a lobbyist for the National Rifle Association.

Vandermyde referred to the fingerprinting provision as "Mayor Daley's tax-your-guns-and-treat-you-like-a-registered-sex-offender bill."

The committee did approve a ban on military-style assault weapons. But Sen. Antonio Munoz, D-Chicago, promised not to call it for a full Senate vote until he makes changes sought by one prominent Republican, Kirk Dillard of Hinsdale.

The committee also approved an increase in penalties for having a secret compartment where guns may be hidden in a vehicle.

The votes capped weeks of lobbying by pro-gun groups, lobbying that one legislator said went overboard. Freshman Sen. Iris Martinez, D-Chicago, read a statement that denounced what she described as threatening phone calls to her office, calls which included racial epithets, from opponents of her bill to raise fees for firearm owner's cards and to fingerprint applicants for the cards.

"There is ... nothing wrong with expressing disapproval to an elected official, but using bigoted remarks and threats is cowardly and shows disrespect for the democratic process," Martinez said.

A spokesman for Secretary of State Jesse White confirmed that additional police officers patrolled the Capitol this week in part because of threats made over the gun bills. No problems were reported.

Vandermyde told Martinez that the NRA does not condone such behavior and apologized if any of the callers associated themselves with the group.

While most committee Democrats favored the bills, Sens. William Haine of Alton and James Clayborne of East St. Louis voted against most of them.

A spokesman for Mayor Daley said the mayor was pleased that the assault-gun ban succeeded and pointed out that House committees approved two gun control measures-- a restriction on purchases at gun shows and a plan to require gun dealers to be licensed by the state police.

"We'll continue to fight the fight," said William Shaver, chief of staff to the Chicago police superintendent.

Copyright 2003 Associated Press.
Click to expand...
 
One Senator Dillard rolled over on us and voted for it, then voted present on all the others. He said he was passing it with the understanding that "people will show me the statistics" and "prove there's a link between assault weapons and crime."
Click to expand...

Presumably, if someone showed him a link between organized religion and crime, or between large gatherings of people and crime, or between high capacity printing presses and crime, he'd ban those things as well. So long, first amendment.

If quartering soldiers in private residences were shown to reduce crime, he'd vote to do that.

If random searches and seizures were shown to reduce crime, he'd vote for those.

If forcing people to testify against themselves, trying them over and over for the same crime, or taking private property without just compensation reduced crime, he'd vote for those.

I could go on, but after that last one, I must go
:barf:
 
One clarification on Sen. Dillard - who did stab us in the back on SB1195. The rest of his votes on those bills where he voted present were political. By voting present on some of the legislation, the votes that killed the legislation were Democrat - the political part of that is that now the Chicago Tribune can't report that the Republicans defeated Daley' s gun bills as a number of the bills went down with the help of a couple of Democrats who cast the deciding votes.

Therefore if you contact Dillard, please be polite, just tell him you are extremely disappointed in his vote of SB1195. If you get abusive or personally offensive you could lose a potential vote against this and future gun legislation. There were extra police at the hearing as it was as some idiots made abusive and threatening calls to some of the senators. That makes all of us look bad.
 
Jason, the CCW bill was not heard as far as I know. I have a funny feeling it won't be called. No way it would have passed anyway, I'm sorry to say. We will never have a chance at passing a CCW law until we have one unified group like MCRGO in Michigan. Five small groups who hate each other will not accomplish squat. Remember the "revolutionaries" in "The Life of Brian?" Just like that.
 
Mack, thank you for the information. I shouldn't be surprised about the dirty tricks in the House, but it makes my blood boil! That's a filthy bill, too. It could concievably be used to make sure there are NO licensed dealers in Illinois by this time next year. All they have to do is refuse to issue the licenses--it's a "may issue" bill. I suppose we could hope they won't do that since issuing licenses allows them to charge $300 for jack squat. . . . but what if Daley and Blagojevich together told the state police not to issue any licenses in the counties around Cook?

The dealer Mack mentioned is the owner of Dave's Guns in Collinsville. He says he was wounded three times in the leg in Mogadishu during the events now called Black Hawk Down, while serving in the Air Force. He made a great point--he was good enough to be a bullet sponge in a foreign land, but he's not good enough to keep his rifle when he comes home. :rolleyes: Wasn't much they could say to that!

Finally, an issue Mack alluded to but neither of us explained. Senator Martinez claimed that she had received threatening and abusive phone calls over her sponsorship of a Daley bill. Now, what she was doing was disgusting--but she claims the callers told her she was a Spic who should "go back to her own country." Although it would have been nice if she'd spoken better English, that's just not right.
She also claimed that one caller "threatened" her, and that was the explanation for the increased police presence. It turned out that the "threat" was that someone would spit on her during the hearing. While that's a terrible and stupid thing to say to someone, I don't think I'm the only one who had gotten the impression that she must be talking about death threats.

(BTW, I pulled a boneheaded move. I walked off and left my briefcase sitting on the floor outside the conference room. Next thing I know, I'm talking to a reporter and the police have a bomb-sniffing dog checking out my briefcase! Perfectly understandable in the state capitol. I offered to open it, but they declined.)
 
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