im an anti w/ questions

[hso]

Chris,

Pax pointed out that in Washington and Oregon there are no statistical differences between accidental shooting rates in spite of training requiremtents in one and none in the other.

My own review of accidental and total firearms related injuries/deaths showed rates below levels that would interest OSHA were they related to workplace injuries/deaths. If OSHA would not even regulate such an "industry" at all that would mean that they wouldn't mandate training as one of the requirements (OSHA mandates training as a worker protection measure in many hazardous activities).

The statistics are not there to support federal government control (even such low level control as training) of firearms ownership for non-criminals.

If there is no scientific basis for regulation then there must be some other reason to desire control. I will not assume that malicious intent is behind it when simple ignorance will serve. The perception that firearms are dangerous when handled improperly or maliciously is based on fact, but that they represent any real public health threat is based on misinformation since the statistics do not bear this contention out.

 

[Werewolf]

Regarding mandatory training let me just say from the get go that I'm a'gin it. For a number of reasons I'm a'gin it but for now they aren't important.

What is important is that there was a time when I was all for mandatory training - at least before I thought about it a bit and got input from others.

You see when I took my CCW class and did the firing part I was surrounded by so many less than competent shooters that - well - my impression of even letting these folks carry in public was soured considerably.

We had to shoot 50 rounds at a 2yd and 5 yd target. Now a blind man with a gun in a broken hand can hit COM at 2yd's and it isn't much harder at 5yd's. BUT I'm here to tell ya that at least 3 out of my group of 10 were missing the darn targets and most of the rest were hitting them every which where - does minute of bad guy mean anything to ya. The guy next to me had bullet holes spread out in a random pattern that covered the whole darn target. When that same guy next to me commented that I was sure having problems hitting my target I just shook my head, laughed and pointed out that no - if he looked closer he'd see that that 2" area of paper blown away in the center of the target was where all my shots were going. He looked closer and turned all red and asked how I learned to shoot like that? Now 2" groups at 2 and 5 yards just isn't that good but it was better than everyone else there and I'm no ace marksman by any stretch of the imagination.

I walked out of their that day convinced that mandatory training should be law. Luckily I got over that feeling - but it still amazes me that there are folks out there - carrying - that would be lucky to hit the broadside of a barn from 10 feet. I can't imagine that they are actually accomplishing anything by going into public armed. I hope they've practiced a bit since that day.

 

[LASur5r]

Thanks

Thank you P95Carry, actually I'm a recycled old dude whose been around a little while....went to "Browse" mode for a while when my "adopted" kid went to Iraq...really worried about that guy...doing a lot of praying for his safetyl Been some hairy moments.
Thank you for your welcome, though...your kind words are greatly appreciated....you've been writing some good threads of your own.
Good on you.

 

[Lupine]

Welcome

First, welcome to James and all/any folks who are on this list to learn more about the opinions and attitudes of those on the "other side of the fence."

I was in your shoes not long ago, myself.

Rather than repeat the answers to your questions that were so wonderfully fleshed out and explained by my fellow High Roaders, I'll simply add that I'm thankful to have had forums such as this one to help me learn about the issues, culture and philosphies revolving around the RKBA (Right to Keep and Bear Arms) movement. My first post to a pro-RKBA forum wasn't nearly as graceful as yours.

Also, here's a profile to help enforce the reality of the "gun nut". I'm in my early 30s. Single. Female. Self-employed. Living in a fairly liberal city, with mostly liberal-minded friends. I have hunters and marksmen on boths sides of my family but until recently harbored an exaggerated fear of firearms--partly due to defaulting to myths and misinformation commonly perpetuated by the surrounding culture and media (and exaggerated by Michael Moore's hyping of the topic in recent years), and partly due to the fact that I never shot anything other than a single-action revolver or bolt-action rifle until some friends invited me to the range and invited me to shoot their "scary" guns. Aha! First epiphany: The safety and purpose of a firearm depends entirely upon the person handling it.

And I feel that my own personal safety is up to me. I'm sure you'll have been told (as I've yet to read every post on this thread) that police are not obligated--nor are they capable, due to logistics, of course--to protect the individual. And as a woman who has had to defend herself, while unarmed and outnumbered/outmatched, I'm glad that I've recently taken the steps to educate, train and arm myself. I'll need to have that permit and firearm at hand next time (and there will be a next time, in spite of precautions) I'm placed at a disadvantage. And I hope that what I've learned from courses, my knowledge of the law and my fellow forum members will help me to know when the use of deadly force is appropriate.

If you've ever had a violent and unbalanced stalker, by the way, you'd wished you'd have done your homework earlier. Or you'd have wished you didn't need to jump through the hoops in the first place to be "authorized" to protect yourself. Believe me.

I now have a Concealed Handgun Permit, an NRA membership (boy have I had a paradigm shift!) recent training from both private firearm courses and city-offered unarmed self-defense courses, and while I know I'm far from infallible, I am certain that I am more aware of myself in public and in my home. The journey I've taken in recent months has reminded me to research both sides of political issues rather than default to the popular opinion, and to speak up for what I believe is right.

My best to you and to everyone else on the forum.

 

[BluesBear]

A hearty WELCOME ABOARD to LASur5r and Lupine.

It's always nice to meet newcomers who bring logical thinking and real life experiences to the table.

I hope you both are as proud to be here as we are to have you and I hope we hear from you often.

 

[Maddock]

Lupine: The safety and purpose of a firearm depends entirely upon the person handling it.

I have never seen this truth stated more accurately and succinctly.

 

[Drjones]

So where's Chris?

 

[Art Eatman]

What purpose would be served by mandatory training? Accidental deaths? We're already down to about 1,000 or 1,100 per year, for all ages. Compare this with other causes of accidental death.

How much training would it take to inculcate good judgement and common sense? These are the most important parts of life itsownself, much less dealing with firearms and self-defense. Even the "smarts-challenged" seem to function adequately, given the myriad statistics available as to a general lack of problems. (Stipulating law-abiding folks, I hope it's realized. )

The overall track record of ordinary folks shooting the wrong person is already below that of the police. The overall record of claimed self-defense shootings shows very few to be otherwise, which proves the existence of reasonable judgement and prudence.

The vast majority of all people regard the use of deadly force as a last resort. I guess we must give "credit" to the media for creating an opposite view--which did not really exist a mere 40 or 50 years ago.

Art