I'm Betting This Won't Be Covered in The Senate Investigation

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Did not the Gov. of LA confess on television that she could have allowed the militree into LA sooner but did not want to subject the people of New Orleans to "those types of people", aka the National Guard?
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See, that's excatly what I was referring to.... the incorrect notion that the military would REQUIRE the permission of a governor to move people and materiel into a state if they choose to. There are Army, Air Force, and NG bases all over this country. Do you think if the Army decided to move ANY kind of cargo and or personnel into a base they would ask or even notify local authority?

The point is that the DOD could have loaded up and driven stuff in there without permission and not violated any law. They could have dumped the stuff and told the governor: use it or dump it, your choice.

Did not the Gov. of LA confess on television that she could have allowed the militree into LA sooner but did not want to subject the people of New Orleans to "those types of people", aka the National Guard?
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Regarding that specific point, the governor objected to her national guard being put under federal control.... for a number of reasons. But, there was and is no law which would have prevented a movement of personnel into the area for the purpose of moving food and water..... if they were not intent on taking control from local authority.
 
This discussion is all moot, everybody. Why, you ask?

Because Cindy Sheehan says that Bush should "pull our troops out of occupied New Orleans".

I guess the left does not think the troops are needed, nor are they doing any good. It's gotta be a fact, 'cuz their current "soccer mom" spokesman says so.

Go to MichaelMoore.com for more of her drivel, if you can stand it.
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Is there a place to go to get away from this kind of drivel?
 
One reason I made the TV comment was the effort to get the semi-loads of food and water to the Superdome. I don't believe FEMA's Brown would have said on TV that the people were being fed and watered if the convoy hadn't been coordinated. As it turned out, it wasn't any FEMA person or other federal person who turned back the convoy; it was a Louisiana person.

And Brown didn't know it had been turned back, as all of us who were watching TV were aware. We knew that it was false that the people were being cared for.

This deal is one of the worst for "left hand, right hand". Item: A small fleet of boats was ready to go in and rescue people. A FEMA guy stopped them due to insufficient fire extinguishers and life vests.

http://www.lewrockwell.com/fontova/fontova53.html

I don't know that the military would have been all that useful during the first two days after Katrina. The most useful work-groups would have been guys with chainsaws and operators with front-loaders--and that's mostly local. Clearing of access roads into the area was the biggest initial problem. Ya gotta get out a map and figure what happens when 80-foot pine trees are jumbled all across the roads. Remember, there was no access into New Orleans except from the west/northwest. I-10 on the east side, US 90 and the Lake Pontchartrain bridges were wrecked.

It took a day just to get two-way traffic on the westbound lane of I-10 in Mississippi. Trees and other debris had the eastbound side fully blocked. I-59 and US 49 were also blocked for a day or so.

Other than choppers, all the area's airports were blocked by debris...

I dunno. Since Celia in 1970, I just take it for granted that for two to five days, I'm on my own...

Art
 
Didn't this Hurricane also hit Mississippi and Alabama ???

I guess there aren't any poor people in Gulfport, Biloxi or anywhere else in those states ??

Is George Bush screwing things up in those states also ??

I haven't heard anything about the response or lack thereof in those states ??

Same President, different Governors and local officals....What do you think is the difference ???

Get beyond the Bush hatred and use your head for more then a hat rack.
 
Actually, he didn't need to over ride anybody to get some basic aid in there. As long as he did not send in troops to assume LE authority, he could have (on his own) sent in convoys of military trucks carrying aid as well as helicopter fleets for evacuation of the stranded. He could have also had the USS Comfort off shore so the critical patients could have been ferried there by the choppers.
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Posse commitatus prevents sending troops in. Some have been claiming that it only covers LE authority, but for the past 40 years, any activity where the military must evacuate large numbers of people (i.e. crowd control) would be considered LE duty. It takes several hours for a request to go through DOMS before a military unit may operate on US soil in a LE capacity.

The President could not send anything in "on his own" without the Governor of a State relinquishing command to the Federal gov't. Blanco expressly denied giving up command authority.

Where should trucks have been stationed during a 90,000 square mile Category 5 storm? Where should the USNS Comfort have been moored during 40 foot surges during a Category 5 storm? Only a fool would put vital resources in the path of a Cat 5 storm.

The simple fact is the vast majority of those needing aid were at two known locations (superdome and civic center) and trucks WERE getting in and out of those locations. All they had to do was tell the MIL to go for it and start hauling it in. If they were all freaked out about the uniforms, they could have hired Greyhound buses to pick up the food and haul it in and the people out and get a convoy system going.
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It is only simple after the fact. The civic center was never designated an evacuation point in either the City or State "disaster plans". The Superdome was not stocked with food or water in those "plans" either. The city also had 500 buses at their disposal 0.3 miles from the Superdome that sat because the "plan" did not include having anyone drive those buses.

This ain't rocket science, there were solutions available, and it wouldn't have taken all that much to do it.
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It ain't rocket science, but disaster planning comes from the bottom up. This disaster rests squarely on the shoulders of Mayor Nagin and Governor Blanco. They had "disaster plans" that were merely a sham. They wasted money on pork barrel projects rather than upgrade the levees. Finally, their social policies (like those of all the Democrats that came before them), ensured that hundreds of thousands of poor, mostly black Americans could do nothing for themselves, except cry for help.
 
The genuinely idiotic thing about continually hearing this response as an excuse for the Bush admin's failure is that in their own plan, they acknowledge that the only organization which can possibly handle such a disaster is the military..... and the next thing you write is that the fault is the incompetent mayor.
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1) If the mayor had done his job, there wouldn't have been that many people "evacuated" to the Superdome, etc...

2) If you think that a new administration goes in, and completely rewrites _every_ contingency plan, then you really need a session with Mr. Clue Stick. That plan was in place. But it wasn't meant to deal with an "ongoing" disaster - everything up until now has been, "Bang! Now it's over, so let's clean up."
 
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Genuine TIN foil hats!
Guaranteed to reflect the rays from the evil Bushes' Mind Wipe machine...

$29.95 plus tax...

Get em now while suplies last!

Made in America, by Ronn,ink.


:neener:
 
"The simple fact is the vast majority of those needing aid were at two known locations (superdome and civic center)"

You've been watching too much television.

There were, and are, huge areas of 3 states that were hit much harder and many people who needed more help. They just didn't get the air time.

John
 
Last year portions of Florida was evaculated safely during their hurricanes and now Galveston is being evacuated in advance of hurricane Rita; no problems are foreseen.... However, with New Orleans, there was trouble evacuating. Why? Incompetence in Mayor and Cluelessness of Governor. Now, because of such ignorance, the nation pays. This is not rocket science folks; neither Mayor Nagin nor Governor Blanco has much experience dealing with anything, much less the storm of the century! :(
 
bounty, well, maybe Fort Polk could have been used as a depot dump and not violated federal law, but, 1. the Red Cross had stuff pre-positioned and was told by the state government NOT to bring it into New Orleans as they did not want Red Cross goodies to act as a magnet to refugees, 2. the mayor of New Orleans was on television saying everything was okey-dokey and the militree was then diverted to AL and MS (then Dick Cheney fast-roped from the black helicopter and blew up the levee).

Funny how Bush used his Jedi Powers to target only Democratic LA and created a shield for MS and AL so they would not be harmed by the hurricane he created. What? You mean MS and AL got hit too? Why aren't AL and MS whimpering and crying over their losses???
 
You really summarized it.... and by law, it is not my job to use my garden hose to put out a guy who is laying on the sidewalk on fire (it's the fire departments).
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Yes bounty hunter you should not use the hose you have in your hand while you are standing 5 feet from the person on fire. Wait for the FEDS or the Fire department to get there.

The Governor and the Mayor of Louisiana did exactly what you are suggesting. they waited for the feds / the fire department to arrive, instead of using the red cross and the national guard, or that lot full of school buses which was right at the scene already.

So obviously it was the fire departments (the federal government's) fault that they the mayor and governor were too stupid and incompetent and pannicked to use the hose in their hand to put out the fire at their feet especially when they had a detailed plan on how to use the fire hose right away.

Bush was not smart enough to figure out that the Governor and the Mayor were even dumber than he was, and when they said they did not want troops, he should have not believed them and invoked the riot / insurrection act.
 
Lessee: There were four hurricanes across Florida, last year, and one this year (ignoring Rita). Same FEMA people then as now.

And for the "now", compare the LA problems with MS and AL.

And we're back to the incompetence of Nagin and Blanco.

From personal experience, I know that Texas has been working pretty hard on disaster preparedness since back in the days of Carla (1961) and Celia (1970). The middle 1970s, with the Coastal Zone Management Program, saw us working with guys like Herb Saffir and Bob Simpson, along with the early FEMA folks, the Corps of Engineers and many other groups.

Katrina has caused the general population to pay attention, but the Texas "management" folks are way ahead of the curve. Just watch. I don't expect perfection, since every one of these things is part of a learning curve. But we won't have the sorts of idiocies that Louisiana had.

Art
 
More trouble brewing for Dubya!

I just read over on Junkscience.com where Mars is experiencing global warming--supposedly, I think, from the past quarter-century of solar energy increases. So how long before Bush starts a hurricane on Mars?

What would a hurricane do in the sand?

Can we export enough looters to Mars to have any effect before the first hurricane hits?

Should we send Jesse Jackass and Al Charlatan to do the coordinating?

rr
 
I like how the article cut right to the chase that it was NOT the Army that
was slow in getting it's * together, but rather the beaurocrats.

I'm not 11B, but when I needed to go somewhere outside the wire I'd
ask about the paperwork they required. Somebody would pull out a post-it
note and take down my name, blood type and weapon. "That's it, sir." Ok,
When do we leave? "Now." Great, let's go. I don't like paperwork either.
 
This Proves It Is Theoretically Possible

For FEMA to do their job. They are doing it right now as a CAT4 steams up the gulf towards Texas and/or Louisiana. Too bad it took such a tragedy to get them to read their own manual, but any improvement is a good thing.




The federal government was eager to show it, too, had learned its lesson, after getting pounded for its sluggish response to Katrina. It rushed hundreds of truckloads of water, ice and ready-made meals to the Gulf Coast and put rescue and medical teams on standby.
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WOW! Imagine that.... staging essential relief supplies and personnell BEFORE the thing hits... and they did it without permission from the states or an act of Congress.

Whooda thunk such a thing was possible....... besides me, I mean.






http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,169984,00.html


Hurricane Rita Grows to Category 4 Storm
Wednesday, September 21, 2005


KEY WEST, Fla. — Hurricane Rita (search) on Wednesday grew into a Category 4 storm, with winds reaching 140 mph, as it churned toward landfall later this week on the Texas or Louisiana Gulf Coast.

Residents of New Orleans and Galveston, Texas, were being urged to evacuate. On Tuesday, Rita skirted past the Florida Keys (search) as a Category 2 storm, causing minimal damage.

"After this killer in New Orleans, Katrina, I just cannot fathom staying," 59-year-old Ldyyan Jean Jocque said before sunrise Wednesday as she waited for an evacuation bus outside the Galveston Community Center. She had packed her Bible, some music and clothes into plastic bags and loaded her dog into a pet carrier.

The federal government was eager to show it, too, had learned its lesson, after getting pounded for its sluggish response to Katrina. It rushed hundreds of truckloads of water, ice and ready-made meals to the Gulf Coast and put rescue and medical teams on standby.

There were conflicting reports as to whether the evacuations in New Orleans and Galveston were mandatory or not.
 
Lessee: There were four hurricanes across Florida, last year, and one this year (ignoring Rita). Same FEMA people then as now.

And for the "now", compare the LA problems with MS and AL.

And we're back to the incompetence of Nagin and Blanco.
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Sorry, but that is a non-sequitur. You are comparing apples to oranges. There are a hundred earthquakes a day in California, but the Loma Prieta was the only one to cause major damage and loss of life. It is a matter of degree, not all hurricanes are alike.

Nobody is disputing Nagin and Blanco were incompetent, that is not the point of the thread or the article: it is that FEMA (and anybody with a brain) knows that when such disasters hit, only the DOD can muster enough men and goods to get aid in fast enough. period. Their own handbook says exactly that and it says they are to respond. period. Pointing out that La is all screwed up doesn't change that and the fact that:

a) Bush admitted they screwed up

b) they immediately fixed it for Rita

proves that fact better than anything I could post.

Do you remember hurricane Andrew? Different state, same problem (local resources completely overloaded) but without the flooding that put 80% of a city under 15 feet of water. Andrew was such a mess it is what caused the FED to adopt the new guidelins that were not followed this time for Katrina..... and are this very day being followed in preparation for Rita.
 
Let me see here now. *walks over to dry erase board* AL and MS are NOT whining like LA and they got clobbered by Katrina as well. Uncle Art tells us that Tejas is dug in and wired in and will weather (pun intended) Rita just fine thank you.

All signs are pointing to Bush! :D

k dawg, that video is a well-known forgery. Dick Cheney used the time travel machine at Haliburton to go back in time and and Haliburton's make-up department inside the Hall of Evil to disguise himself as Gov. Blank-oh and make that "confession."
 
So obviously it was the fire departments (the federal government's) fault that they the mayor and governor were too stupid and incompetent and pannicked
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OK, the point of the article seems to be conveniently ignored so I'll state it and see if you can stop tap dancing away from it:

The FED's own playbook says:

1) The DOD is the only entity with enough juice to handle a major disaster.

2) FEMA is to respond with resources until it is KNOWN that they are no longer needed.

3) It does not say they are to sit on their butts and do nothing until somebody calls them.... although, there was plenty of calling for help, with people screaming "We're dying!" and the like on televised news which went ignored for three days.


This thread is not about how screwed up La is, it is about one simple thing: did FEMA do the job they are charged to do (no), is the Homeland Security capable of doing what they are charged to do in a disaster (obviously not), and why is it the head of FEMA sat on his butt as a CAT5 hurricane steamed into New Orleans when he could have been staging relief aid EXACTLY as is being done today for Rita?

And why is that Bush apologists are so desperate the only refrain thay can sing is "it's all the governor's (or mayor's) fault" and can not even ADMIT what Bush already publicly admitted: FEMA screwed up and they screwed up big time.
 
Problem is, bounty, that the Dems made this a political assault to avoid the blood on their hands and are now hoisted with their own petard.

1. As addressed above the militree was told not to come and in fact was told everything was okey-dokey.

2. Aid was pre-positioned by the Red Cross. However the LA Department of Homeland Insecurity said, "you'll not welcome hir, now, boy. I say, I say, we want dem der refugees, I say evacuees, suhr, to leave, I say skeedaddle out of that there city now." FEMA would have been told the same goldurn thing.

The city was responsible for any failures to evacuate, the break down in law and order, the use of police helicopters to drive refugees out of the city. The state is responsible for not calling in the militree and for preventing aid to come into New Orleans. Both the city and the state are responsible for the imaginable (Chicago-level plus) corruption that prevented the levees from being strengthened so Dick Cheney and his underlings in the Haliburton Hall of Evil (explosives section) could easily destroy them.

It was a local problem, the locals were responsible. The answers to the problem of New Orleans lie in the people of the city of New Orleans, not in Washington D.C.
 
"And why is that Bush apologists are so desperate"

Oh, I don't know. Probably for the same reason you're beating on this dead horse with your attitude. ;)


"Bush was not smart enough to figure out that the Governor and the Mayor were even dumber than he was, and when they said they did not want troops, he should have not believed them and invoked the riot / insurrection act."

That's the truth.

John
 
I'm with you, bounty. How dare Darth Bush believe a Democrat when they say that they don't want the troops! Everyone knows or should know not to believe a Democrat!

Since Bush used his Jedi Powers to drive the hurricane into New Orleans, he should have used his powers to read the minds of the Guv and Mayor or at least used the time travel machine at Haliburton or asked The Emperor (Karl Rove) to disregard the local officials who were on the ground and best situated to deal with the problem.
 
Yea... The federal government should be able to save each state from whatever catastrophe it faces (earthquake, Hurricanes).
Also, the rescurers should not have been stopped from going in for a couple days just because the local gangs had stolen the guns from the sherriff's department and were shooting at volunteers. They should not have waited for the Navy Seals to come in (which they did...but it is not covered on CNN) and kill the gang members. Fema workers should have dodged those bullets while handing out water bottles!
 
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