I'm Giving Up On 1911s
- Thread starter MagnumDweeb
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1911Tuner
Moderator Emeritus
Colt, if you can ignore the Series 80 system.
I have only owned 1 1911. Double stack para warthawg. Properly lubed like allmy flawless functioning other weapons, at times struggled to get through it's 10 round mag without 3 failures. Mostly where an unfired round would end up pointing up primer down out of the ejection port with slide closed on it. It was a while ago I owned it but plonger arm failed to fall down in slide, and ripped out the back of the metal of the slide after fired. Sent it back to para. Waited a year, gotit back with a cheap parkarized finish on filled in slide, they even parkerized over the sights and everything, had to paint new dots. Still had problems and got rid of it. Insane for what they cost new.
I know people have 1911's that run good for them. Hell my luger runs flawlessly that I would trust my life on it and other people claim of how unreliable they can be.
I know people have 1911's that run good for them. Hell my luger runs flawlessly that I would trust my life on it and other people claim of how unreliable they can be.
bluekouki86
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- Mar 10, 2013
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- 236
Could have stopped right there. So far from the 1911 design, I don't even consider it a 1911.
peacebutready
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peacebutready
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kilibreaux
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- Feb 11, 2014
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Glock has shown the world how reliable autoloading pistols CAN BE.
However, long BEFORE GLOCK there existed what has become a legend for both power AND reliability - the U.S. GI issue 1911A1 pistol in .45 ACP! Sgt. Alvin York didn't KILL a bunch of Germans in WWII with a 1911 that didn't work...the 1911 "pattern" has been vetted on battlefields around the world...yes it's reputation has become ridiculously mythologized, but that reputation has it roots in reality....many men, in combat, have pulled out a 1911 and given good account...the pistol performed and their exploits entered the annals of history.
COMMERCIAL 1911 "pattern" pistols are NOT the same as military issue...military issue guns are much "looser" (I know I was issued a 1911 as a mortar gunner assigned to the 1/504 PIR, 82 ABN Div). I qualified expert with an AS ISSUED 1911 at distances out to 75 yards...the pistol never malfunctioned and since I qualified expert the pistol was clearly capable of hitting man size targets 75 yards away!
The problem with commercial models is they're built "tight" intentionally because this is what the consumer EXPECTS! The consumer who pays $1,000 for a pistol EXPECTS it to be smooth and tight....when somewhat loose is much better for combat. This is where "breaking in" comes to light. We thinking in terms of firing 200 rounds to break in a pistol built to shoot 100,000 rounds! A 1911 with 5,000 rounds fired through it is still virtually brand new! A revolver chambered in .454 Casull with 5,000 rounds of REAL Casull ammo shot is virtually clapped out....
The problem is...typical Americans think MONEY buys the best...yet that's not true when it comes to whores...not true when it comes to cars, not true (by far)when it comes to GUNS! Best way to approach the 1911 is buy cheap, like this amazing RIA 1911 GI model I just snatched up for $329, and shoot enough rounds through it to break it in...the problem isn't the gun, it's the consumer's expectations...they want Glock reliable, yet they want $1,000 "fitment of parts." The two are mutually exclusive.
However, long BEFORE GLOCK there existed what has become a legend for both power AND reliability - the U.S. GI issue 1911A1 pistol in .45 ACP! Sgt. Alvin York didn't KILL a bunch of Germans in WWII with a 1911 that didn't work...the 1911 "pattern" has been vetted on battlefields around the world...yes it's reputation has become ridiculously mythologized, but that reputation has it roots in reality....many men, in combat, have pulled out a 1911 and given good account...the pistol performed and their exploits entered the annals of history.
COMMERCIAL 1911 "pattern" pistols are NOT the same as military issue...military issue guns are much "looser" (I know I was issued a 1911 as a mortar gunner assigned to the 1/504 PIR, 82 ABN Div). I qualified expert with an AS ISSUED 1911 at distances out to 75 yards...the pistol never malfunctioned and since I qualified expert the pistol was clearly capable of hitting man size targets 75 yards away!
The problem with commercial models is they're built "tight" intentionally because this is what the consumer EXPECTS! The consumer who pays $1,000 for a pistol EXPECTS it to be smooth and tight....when somewhat loose is much better for combat. This is where "breaking in" comes to light. We thinking in terms of firing 200 rounds to break in a pistol built to shoot 100,000 rounds! A 1911 with 5,000 rounds fired through it is still virtually brand new! A revolver chambered in .454 Casull with 5,000 rounds of REAL Casull ammo shot is virtually clapped out....
The problem is...typical Americans think MONEY buys the best...yet that's not true when it comes to whores...not true when it comes to cars, not true (by far)when it comes to GUNS! Best way to approach the 1911 is buy cheap, like this amazing RIA 1911 GI model I just snatched up for $329, and shoot enough rounds through it to break it in...the problem isn't the gun, it's the consumer's expectations...they want Glock reliable, yet they want $1,000 "fitment of parts." The two are mutually exclusive.
1911Tuner
Moderator Emeritus
They've all got MIM parts. Some more than others. I meant more dimensionally within spec than reference to materials.
1911
!911's can be reliable. But as often as not out of the box, they can choke. I have several that are reliable but they are the exception. My Baer Mono Heavy has been flawless as my Ten X and I've kept them. Both of those are high end custom & semi-custom 1911's. I also have some inexpensive 1911's out of the Philippines that run very well. Long story short is I shoot 1911's a lot, but I carry a Glock.
!911's can be reliable. But as often as not out of the box, they can choke. I have several that are reliable but they are the exception. My Baer Mono Heavy has been flawless as my Ten X and I've kept them. Both of those are high end custom & semi-custom 1911's. I also have some inexpensive 1911's out of the Philippines that run very well. Long story short is I shoot 1911's a lot, but I carry a Glock.
peacebutready
Member
1911Tuner
Moderator Emeritus
Yeah. I heard the same thing about Sigs...but when I tore one down, I found'em.
And Colt set the standard for reliable sidearms that saw the worlds greatest military through two world wars and dozens of other engagements, "conflicts", and "police actions" for the better part of a century, long before Glock and SIG even came on the scene.
peacebutready
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peacebutready
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SIG had been there and done that long before GLOCK fanboys were pooping in their nappies!!!
With tons more character!
CoalTrain49
Member
I've had a few Colt's. All of them worked just fine, new and used.
Sig is a Johnny-Come-Lately to the 1911. Maybe they don't know how to put one together so it works.
Why would one buy a copy 1911 when Colt has been making them for 100+ years. I wouldn't buy a Colt P220 if they made one, I would buy a Sig.
Sig is a Johnny-Come-Lately to the 1911. Maybe they don't know how to put one together so it works.
Why would one buy a copy 1911 when Colt has been making them for 100+ years. I wouldn't buy a Colt P220 if they made one, I would buy a Sig.
peacebutready
Member
Theirs has an external extractor. It looks a bit different with that and the way the slide is shaped. Maybe a European take on the 1911? IIRC, one respected 'net gun journalist claims their extractor is either a little too high or low on the slide.
1911Tuner
Moderator Emeritus
Generalize much?
In the fall of 1991 and wither of 1992, I bought two 91A1 Colts strictly for beater duty, and I've beat on'em hard.
Together, they're approaching 400,000 rounds, about evenly split. They're both on their 3rd barrels, and they both came with MIM sears and disconnects among a few other parts.
One is still operating on the original sear and disconnect, and the other on the original sear. On that one, I changed out the disconnect at roughly 75,000 rounds...not because it failed, but because it looked a little worn and I wanted to nip any pending hammer follow issues in the bud. I also changed out the plunger tube on one of the Colts when one of the legs broke a couple years after being restaked.
A friend of mine brought a NRM Colt to me to have me replace the MIM sear and disconnect with aftermarket parts, despite me telling him that the OEM set would probably outlast his ammunition budget.
When he said that he didn't want the originals, I arranged a scientific experiment for him. I laid the sear on an anvil, arched side up, and whacked it 3-4 times with a 4 ounce hammer. It didn't break. It didn't crack. When I installed it in another pistol, it function as intended, albeit with a pretty rough trigger.
Then I clamped the disconnect in a vise and whacked it with the hammer. It didn't break until the 2nd lick...after it had bent about 15 degrees.
Good MIM can be very good. It's just not well suited for all applications. It doesn't generally fare very well with impact stresses, for example...as with a hammer...nor does it seem to like to be sprung as with an extractor. For most others tasks, it's fine assuming that it's good quality to start with.
And for the record, military/ordnance spec pistols weren't rattle-trap loose when they were new...and loose doesn't guarantee reliability any more than tight guarantees accuracy.
Too loose can be worse for reliability than a little too tight for a number of reasons...wide gaps allowing larger pieces of dirt and grit to get in being one of them.
peacebutready
Member
Colt doesn't strike me as having typical MIM quality parts. My guess is most other manufacturer's 1911 MIM parts are not as good.
1911Tuner
Moderator Emeritus
They do. To date...aside from the occasional plunger tube...I've never seen a Colt MIM part fail.
In the beginning, Kimber used good quality MIM. Somewhere along the line, that changed. I don't know if they decided to go with a different vendor to save a few pennies per part...or if their usual vendor's QA went fugasi...but it happened. I understand that's been rectified in the last few years.
Of course, Colt has never used MIM hammers, and they learned a hard lesson with MIM extractors about 10 years ago. As far as I know, Colt is the only major manufacturer that ever tried MIM extractors.
There's also been a lot of progress in technology since the MIM bugaboo raised its head. Good quality MIM is becoming more common...and bad MIM less so.
Hometeached1
Member
Sorry, but Sgt. York fought in WWI. Yes he did have one that worked though.
peacebutready
Member
I didn't word my previous post well. I meant Colt's MIM seems of higher or much higher quality than other 1911 manufacturer's MIM parts.
It would be good to know at what round count should a person replace MIM parts in the more typical brands like Kimber, Rock Island, Para, Springfield, etc.
1911Tuner
Moderator Emeritus
How many angels can dance on the head of a pin?
You could ask the same question regarding machined parts.
As a rule, if an MIM part survives for 500 cycles, it'll likely last for 50,000 as long as impact isn't part of the function.
One thing you can be sure of. Like it or hate it...it's here to stay.
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