lobo9er
Member
What state is that?
I'm in DENYal too
- Thread starter bikemutt
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What state is that?
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bikemutt
Member
From what I can tell the appeals process starts with a fork in the road, how long it takes depends on which path is taken.
The fork: Does the person denied believe, based on the reason given, he/she is in fact the person in question?
If the answer is no then I think it's a straight forward process: get printed (they supply the forms), mail it in. NICS will compare the submitted prints with the person who they thought you were, if it's not you, you are good to go. I believe they issue a letter you can take to the FFL to proceed the transaction. If it turns out the prints match, welcome to the bonus round.
If the answer is yes then it's a question of whether the record they have is accurate. This includes, but is not limited to criminal records. Whatever the reason is for the denial, if the person denied believes the decision was based on inaccurate information, it's going to take time to correct it. Of course, if the information they have is correct, it's probably game-over.
In my case, it appears I'll need to visit the state patrol, get printed, get something then which says I'm me and that no one else is me. Then visit the PD that submitted the incorrect information, get them to agree it was their error, and have them issue a letter or something clearing it up. Submit that, and maybe some other things my attorney hasn't thought up yet, to NICS, and hope they agree.
Anyway, all of this is going to take time and money but the end result will be to clear my reasonably good name so I don't have to endure this again. And, I don't simply want a UPIN that masks the problem just so I can transfer firearms, I want the record corrected so I can live and die in peace knowing only I am me. That too will take time and money.
In a strange way I'm glad it happened. The pistol is just another gun, it can wait. I found out something I didn't know about which may have been detrimental to me at some point in the future, I have the opportunity now to clear it up and move on. A blessing in disguise as my dear Mom used to say.
The fork: Does the person denied believe, based on the reason given, he/she is in fact the person in question?
If the answer is no then I think it's a straight forward process: get printed (they supply the forms), mail it in. NICS will compare the submitted prints with the person who they thought you were, if it's not you, you are good to go. I believe they issue a letter you can take to the FFL to proceed the transaction. If it turns out the prints match, welcome to the bonus round.
If the answer is yes then it's a question of whether the record they have is accurate. This includes, but is not limited to criminal records. Whatever the reason is for the denial, if the person denied believes the decision was based on inaccurate information, it's going to take time to correct it. Of course, if the information they have is correct, it's probably game-over.
In my case, it appears I'll need to visit the state patrol, get printed, get something then which says I'm me and that no one else is me. Then visit the PD that submitted the incorrect information, get them to agree it was their error, and have them issue a letter or something clearing it up. Submit that, and maybe some other things my attorney hasn't thought up yet, to NICS, and hope they agree.
Anyway, all of this is going to take time and money but the end result will be to clear my reasonably good name so I don't have to endure this again. And, I don't simply want a UPIN that masks the problem just so I can transfer firearms, I want the record corrected so I can live and die in peace knowing only I am me. That too will take time and money.
In a strange way I'm glad it happened. The pistol is just another gun, it can wait. I found out something I didn't know about which may have been detrimental to me at some point in the future, I have the opportunity now to clear it up and move on. A blessing in disguise as my dear Mom used to say.
Gouranga
Member
Another reason I love the NC CCW permit. No NICS for anything except for when I renew my permit (every 5 years)
xcgates
Member
I guess I just live in a fantasy world where the burden of proof should be on the government when they want to take something away. As in, we think you are a prohibited person, hang on, we will get back to you eventually, versus we will get back to you within [fill in the blank] days, and if we haven't finished our job, that's on us.
My bad, I should know by now never to insert logic into how the government works.
My bad, I should know by now never to insert logic into how the government works.
Maverick223
Member
+1, PITA to get (at least for those that live in Meck. Co. and have to drive up to Charlotte) but once completed it makes future purchases fairly easy.
sonick808
Member
AZ also has the NICS-free purchases with CCW. I love it. Walk in. Fill out 4473. Pay. b/s for an hour or two. Walk out. Pistol Parlour in Mesa gets a dedicated amount of my income per year
AZ doesn't require a permit to carry anymore, but I prefer to have it to avoid any errant NICS denials.
AZ doesn't require a permit to carry anymore, but I prefer to have it to avoid any errant NICS denials.
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bikemutt
Member
A bill allowing CPL holders to bypass NICS was introduced in WA this legislative season but died in chamber. It may get revived in a late session, who knows. WA is in deep financial trouble, they may want to quit being point of contact for pistol transfers to save money, although I suppose they could just kick it back to the feds.
dogtown tom
Member
FBI NICS exemptions don't work that way. State legislators don't get to tell the ATF who gets exempted......the ATF gets to do that.
An exemption to the FBI NICS may be granted when the purchaser holds a valid state permit that meets the ATF requirements (typically fingerprints, photographs & background check) and including a maximum length of time that the state permit is valid. I think the max time is five or six years....those permits that are "lifetime" are no longer valid as an exemption to NICS.
bikemut,
Sorry to hear about your "deny". It's a VERY simple proces really. Just follow the instructions on the appeal with the NTN and wait for their response. I was denied once, I simply followed the instructions and received my appeal to proceed in 1 WEEK!! I also live in WA.
Sorry to hear about your "deny". It's a VERY simple proces really. Just follow the instructions on the appeal with the NTN and wait for their response. I was denied once, I simply followed the instructions and received my appeal to proceed in 1 WEEK!! I also live in WA.
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bikemutt
Member
dogtown tom, I'm sure you are correct, I paraphrased the bill. In any event, regardless of who allows who to do what, the end result is those with a valid CPL issued AFTER the date the law was to have become effective, would have been granted an exemption to the NICS check.
Here is the bill digest so I don't keep digging myself a deeper hole:
"HB 1923 passed out of the House Judiciary Committee on 17 February on a 12-1 vote, following a short amendment. It now goes to House Rules awaiting a vote by the full House (floor vote). As amended, the bill will supposedly meet the BATFE standard for a NICS waiver, meaning anyone with a CPL issued after the effective date of the law (IF it passes) will not require a NICS check before taking delivery of a firearm."
And, I stand corrected, the bill is still in play as of 3/11/2011 and has been filed for the 2011-2012 biennium. There were several CPL-related bills all of which died except 1923.
Here is the bill digest so I don't keep digging myself a deeper hole:
"HB 1923 passed out of the House Judiciary Committee on 17 February on a 12-1 vote, following a short amendment. It now goes to House Rules awaiting a vote by the full House (floor vote). As amended, the bill will supposedly meet the BATFE standard for a NICS waiver, meaning anyone with a CPL issued after the effective date of the law (IF it passes) will not require a NICS check before taking delivery of a firearm."
And, I stand corrected, the bill is still in play as of 3/11/2011 and has been filed for the 2011-2012 biennium. There were several CPL-related bills all of which died except 1923.
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bikemutt
Member
After 106 days I'm pleased to report that NICS has resolved this denial in my favor. They also processed my VAF application and issued me a UPIN for future transfers.
A good day indeed. I'll be picking that gun up tomorrow!
A good day indeed. I'll be picking that gun up tomorrow!
Maverick223
Member
Congrats, and good decision to get the UPIN to mitigate further problems.
ATBackPackin
Member
Did they give you a reason why it was denied in the first place???
mgkdrgn
Member
Not if it is his bound book ... and if it's in his shop for more than 24 hrs it -is- (or should be) in his bound book.begs the question though, will he give back the trade to a guy who got denied?
mgkdrgn
Member
THAT is quite possible .. that the shop got something wrong when supplying the info to NICS. That is one of the reasons I prefer the Web Based check ... I PRINT a copy of the provided info so there can be NO QUESTION of what was told to them.
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bikemutt
Member
"Did they give you a reason why it was denied in the first place???"
Yes, they wrote it was due to prohibitive information. That was factually correct except the person who was prohibited was not me. That person was definitely prohibited due to an extensive felony record. In the end that made it easy to correct the record since we don't share identical fingerprints, amongst other things.
And contrary to my original thought that I'd have to run around and visit various LEAs and pay a lawyer, I simply wrote a respectful and clear letter to NICS stating why I believe my record was inaccurate and included my fingerprint card. They apparently have seen fit to agree, a decision I'm delighted with.
I will say though, had I not obtained a copy of my FBI record this would have been more challenging, or at least taken longer. There was really nothing in the stated reason for denial that gave specifics, just "prohibited". One look at the record and it was plain to see the problem. I included a copy of the record with the incorrect information highlighted in my appeal. I believe this step was crucial since the prints I sent in match my prints, when this happens I don't believe NICS is obligated to go any further, it's case closed for them. Believing I had only one shot at this, I made sure to provide them with everything which would lead a reasonable person to conclude that my record is wrong and which, once corrected, is not that of a prohibited person.
Sorry for the long-winded reply, but it may be helpful to someone in the future who ends up with an awkward denial.
Yes, they wrote it was due to prohibitive information. That was factually correct except the person who was prohibited was not me. That person was definitely prohibited due to an extensive felony record. In the end that made it easy to correct the record since we don't share identical fingerprints, amongst other things.
And contrary to my original thought that I'd have to run around and visit various LEAs and pay a lawyer, I simply wrote a respectful and clear letter to NICS stating why I believe my record was inaccurate and included my fingerprint card. They apparently have seen fit to agree, a decision I'm delighted with.
I will say though, had I not obtained a copy of my FBI record this would have been more challenging, or at least taken longer. There was really nothing in the stated reason for denial that gave specifics, just "prohibited". One look at the record and it was plain to see the problem. I included a copy of the record with the incorrect information highlighted in my appeal. I believe this step was crucial since the prints I sent in match my prints, when this happens I don't believe NICS is obligated to go any further, it's case closed for them. Believing I had only one shot at this, I made sure to provide them with everything which would lead a reasonable person to conclude that my record is wrong and which, once corrected, is not that of a prohibited person.
Sorry for the long-winded reply, but it may be helpful to someone in the future who ends up with an awkward denial.
Standing Wolf
Member in memoriam
Yeah, that's nuthin'. Just wait until these same helpful, highly skilled civil servants are in charge of your health care. You'll look back on these misadventures with deep, abiding fondness.
In full seriousness: we need to build penalties for feral government so-called "mistakes" into these processes. If we have to pay extra for making mistakes on IRS forms, why shouldn't the mighty crime fighters pay extra for mistaking us for criminals?
In full seriousness: we need to build penalties for feral government so-called "mistakes" into these processes. If we have to pay extra for making mistakes on IRS forms, why shouldn't the mighty crime fighters pay extra for mistaking us for criminals?
ErikO
Member
Actually, you are correct, Sir!
"(b) PERMANENT PROVISION- Section 922 of title 18, United States Code, as amended by subsection (a)(1), is amended by adding at the end the following:
`(t)(1) Beginning on the date that is 30 days after the Attorney General notifies licensees under section 103(d) of the Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act that the national instant criminal background check system is established, a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, or licensed dealer shall not transfer a firearm to any other person who is not licensed under this chapter, unless--
`(A) before the completion of the transfer, the licensee contacts the national instant criminal background check system established under section 103 of that Act;
`(B)(i) the system provides the licensee with a unique identification number; or
`(ii) 3 business days (meaning a day on which State offices are open) have elapsed since the licensee contacted the system, and the system has not notified the licensee that the receipt of a firearm by such other person would violate subsection (g) or (n) of this section; and
`(C) the transferor has verified the identity of the transferee by examining a valid identification document (as defined in section 1028(d)(1) of this title) of the transferee containing a photograph of the transferee."
If the bolded part is true, then the NICS result is an Approve.
Yarddog
Member
It Happens, Though most times i gets staighten out quicker In my case anyway PS Congrats & Good luck
Y/D
Y/D
DenaliPark
member
While I'm happy for you, that they finally gave you permission to exercise your right to purchase/own/carry a firearm, I must say that I'd not be exactly delighted with their permission coming 106 days after they subjected you to the illegal instant check!
Personally, I'd be hopping mad, in fact I am hopping mad even thinking about this abomination of the 2nd. How does it feel to have been subjected to more scrutiny then your president was as he ran for the office? What an absolute outrage....BTW, I've seen more then one UPIN get denied....
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bikemutt
Member
I'm simply delighted they agreed with me that my record was inaccurate and they corrected the inaccuracy. I'm certainly not in the least bit happy about the ordeal, nor do I hold any hard feelings, my remaining life is too short for that.While I'm happy for you, that they finally gave you permission to exercise your right to purchase/own/carry a firearm, I must say that I'd not be exactly delighted with their permission coming 106 days after they subjected you to the illegal instant check!
Personally, I'd be hopping mad, in fact I am hopping mad even thinking about this abomination of the 2nd. How does it feel to have been subjected to more scrutiny then your president was as he ran for the office? What an absolute outrage....BTW, I've seen more then one UPIN get denied....
The only mystery left in this whole mess for me is how on earth someone, somewhere, sitting at a computer, clicked a mouse adding another person's faulty record to mine. We have absolutely nothing in common, nothing. Just common sense should have been a red flag yelling "this can't be right". But, things like this happen I guess.
I just need that UPIN to work once to get the denied deal done. For obvious reasons I've become a FTF convert.
DenaliPark
member
I don't know what you mean by FTF convert? Are you referencing private party sales? Regardless, instant checks that take 106 days only illustrate the intent of the hard core big government bureaucracy, it is sending a message everytime it infringes on one of the peasant class...
Owen Sparks
member
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Again I ask:
If you were accused of murder you would not have to prove your innocents, the state would have to prove you guilty. How is it that the burden of proof falls on an individual who is trying to exercize a constitutional right in buying arms, the one and only item that the Constitution guarantees you the right to posess?
If you were accused of murder you would not have to prove your innocents, the state would have to prove you guilty. How is it that the burden of proof falls on an individual who is trying to exercize a constitutional right in buying arms, the one and only item that the Constitution guarantees you the right to posess?
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