I'm so angry I can't think.
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bogie
Member
Guys... The world is not black and white. It is not ones and zeroes. It is not good and evil. It's all colors of the spectrum, and the entire infinite pi... And very darn few people are purely good, or purely evil.
We're going to hear a LOT of emotion in the next few days. Very little of it will be countered by logic, and MUCH of it will at times be highly insulting towards us.
Now, we can either get angry, we can do nothing, or we can try to communicate logic and reason. Then again, I've had folks tell me that trying to communicate isn't "the high road."
We're going to hear a LOT of emotion in the next few days. Very little of it will be countered by logic, and MUCH of it will at times be highly insulting towards us.
Now, we can either get angry, we can do nothing, or we can try to communicate logic and reason. Then again, I've had folks tell me that trying to communicate isn't "the high road."
ArfinGreebly
Moderator Emeritus
Stop Making Me Think!
Her name is "Susan," right?
Susan, I'm sorry, but I hate to see my friends fooled.
If you believe that disarming protects you, then you've been fooled. If you believe the police can be there in time to be of any use at all, you've been fooled. If you think for one moment that a psychotic sociopath will spare you because you turn the other cheek, you've been fooled.
I'd hate to have you hurt because you were fooled into being gentle with violent murderers.
Susan, you're a smart girl. If you're going to let people fool you this badly, at least make them work harder for it.
O'RLY?
Her name is "Susan," right?
Susan, I'm sorry, but I hate to see my friends fooled.
If you believe that disarming protects you, then you've been fooled. If you believe the police can be there in time to be of any use at all, you've been fooled. If you think for one moment that a psychotic sociopath will spare you because you turn the other cheek, you've been fooled.
I'd hate to have you hurt because you were fooled into being gentle with violent murderers.
Susan, you're a smart girl. If you're going to let people fool you this badly, at least make them work harder for it.
Hokkmike
Member
Give her some time and space. She is dealing with two separate issues.
fearless leader
Member
All is not lost
Be sensitive to her grief. At you earliest opportunity, invite her to the range.
Be friendly, understand she is grieving in her heart for a loss and wants to blame something.
I have gotten some ardent supporters of gun control to feel the personal empowerment over evil people you get with proficiency with arms.
My Sister, likely being the worst. She did not like guns, shooters, or the fact that anyone wandering around with arms could indescriminantly take her life.
When a girl a few blocks from her was raped and viciously assaulted in her home after getting off of the school bus, she wanted me to teach her daughters how to shoot. She attended the lessons herself, saying "this is fun."
Now that she lives in the Orlando area, which is becoming quite the combat zone, she told me to get her a gun. I though I would do cartwheels!! I have been working on her for years, but now she understands that with arms, she has a "say so" over the violent criminal's plans toward her. SHE IS EMPOWERED TO PROTECT HERSELF! She now personaly owns 2 handguns and a big bore rifle.
I hope this helps.
Be sensitive to her grief. At you earliest opportunity, invite her to the range.
Be friendly, understand she is grieving in her heart for a loss and wants to blame something.
I have gotten some ardent supporters of gun control to feel the personal empowerment over evil people you get with proficiency with arms.
My Sister, likely being the worst. She did not like guns, shooters, or the fact that anyone wandering around with arms could indescriminantly take her life.
When a girl a few blocks from her was raped and viciously assaulted in her home after getting off of the school bus, she wanted me to teach her daughters how to shoot. She attended the lessons herself, saying "this is fun."
Now that she lives in the Orlando area, which is becoming quite the combat zone, she told me to get her a gun. I though I would do cartwheels!! I have been working on her for years, but now she understands that with arms, she has a "say so" over the violent criminal's plans toward her. SHE IS EMPOWERED TO PROTECT HERSELF! She now personaly owns 2 handguns and a big bore rifle.
I hope this helps.
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chupacabrah
Member
i think your response was well worded. after her "friend" comment, I would be done with her and rack it up as not worth my time.
cracked butt
Member
To paraphrase Chris Rock- "You're not equiped to argue with them because you have a need to make sense."
Don't know how many times I have felt like this, angry and without hope that people just will never get it. I tend to turn inward and then after a few days come out of it knowing that it is people like us who are willing to have a logical unemmotional discussion about these issues that wll make a difference. You never know who you will have a positive impact on. I have found some of the hardest nuts to crack usually get the message away from those that presented it. Plant the seed and walk away, water it with continued friendship and it may sprout and thrive. Don't give up, don't ever give up.
Rob87 - from my experiences, "I don't need this right now." means she's pissed off that she isn't just easily getting her way... is probably used to getting her way... and will likely make your life a living hell until you give in to her way.
The fact that she used "friend" in quotes like that was a threat from a manipulative young woman who would happily threaten to end a friendship unless you give in to her ideology.
$20 says that once she crosses over to the "not friends" stage, she will use every last thing she knows about you and your support of the 2A to publicly try to intimidate and humiliate you on facebook, maybe even going so far as to make a false report about you to school officials assuming you two go to the same school. "I know he is into guns and wants to bring guns on campus Mr. Dean of Students. I just thought you should know."
Don't respond. Just cut it off and let her go on with her manipulative ways - with other people.
Just my $0.02 - from somebody who has had enough of dealing with manipulative women.
You don't need a friend like that.
The fact that she used "friend" in quotes like that was a threat from a manipulative young woman who would happily threaten to end a friendship unless you give in to her ideology.
$20 says that once she crosses over to the "not friends" stage, she will use every last thing she knows about you and your support of the 2A to publicly try to intimidate and humiliate you on facebook, maybe even going so far as to make a false report about you to school officials assuming you two go to the same school. "I know he is into guns and wants to bring guns on campus Mr. Dean of Students. I just thought you should know."
Don't respond. Just cut it off and let her go on with her manipulative ways - with other people.
Just my $0.02 - from somebody who has had enough of dealing with manipulative women.
You don't need a friend like that.
Travis Lee
Member
She's not just manipulative, she's let her whole thinking be manipulated by people in "The cause".
Lacking any real "enemy" to lash out at, she'll direct her emo-storm at you.
I agree with Cheese... watch yourself.
--Travis--
Lacking any real "enemy" to lash out at, she'll direct her emo-storm at you.
I agree with Cheese... watch yourself.
--Travis--
1911Tuner
Moderator Emeritus
You may translate that to:
"My mind is made up, and I will not allow anything factual, sensible, or logical to interfere with that process."
Blackbeard
Member
She's probably more angry than you are, because deep down she knows you're right. She doesn't want you to be right. She doesn't want to live in a world where you might have to kill someone to survive. That's a fact of life and she's transferring her anger over that reality to you for pointing it out.
papajohn
Member
Rob87, LOTS of good input here, I'll keep this short.
She's hurting, and wants to lay blame somewhere. Thanks to the MSM, a gun is already seen by many as a sign of evil. It can't argue back, can't debate, can't defend itself, it just sits there, looking evil, so it makes a convenient scapegoat. But don't give up on her. I'm guessing she's relatively young, and somewhat naive. In time she will likely come to realize that all your points were salient, even if they offer no comfort. Liberal at 20, conservative at 40, etc. "I don't need this right now" indicates overload, too many concepts that refuse to mesh. "If you were my friend you'd tell me I'm right and validate my feelings". You wouldn't, and she's hurt by your cold logic, that's not what she wanted right then. Give it time, keep pointing out the fallacies of her stance, and be patient. Logic and emotion don't get along too well, but when she's feeling less empassioned, the logic can sneak in there and open her eyes. Be gently persuasive, and firm. It takes time.
PJ
She's hurting, and wants to lay blame somewhere. Thanks to the MSM, a gun is already seen by many as a sign of evil. It can't argue back, can't debate, can't defend itself, it just sits there, looking evil, so it makes a convenient scapegoat. But don't give up on her. I'm guessing she's relatively young, and somewhat naive. In time she will likely come to realize that all your points were salient, even if they offer no comfort. Liberal at 20, conservative at 40, etc. "I don't need this right now" indicates overload, too many concepts that refuse to mesh. "If you were my friend you'd tell me I'm right and validate my feelings". You wouldn't, and she's hurt by your cold logic, that's not what she wanted right then. Give it time, keep pointing out the fallacies of her stance, and be patient. Logic and emotion don't get along too well, but when she's feeling less empassioned, the logic can sneak in there and open her eyes. Be gently persuasive, and firm. It takes time.
PJ
She did not actually want your opinion. She was checking to make sure your opinion validated her opinion. When you did not, it was similar to a slap in the face. I've dealt with the type plenty of times in the past. From the brief description she's immature, manipulative and passive aggressive. I agree that she may sneak around behind your back to the authorities or attack you on facebook. The internet is the coward's battleground. Best case scenario she may mature and grow out of this. Worst case she may stay in the extended adolescent state most BNs stay in for their whole life. Your choice if you want to continue associating with her.
I'm a big proponent of "ripping off the bandaid" and making a clean break. Continuing to associate with her will be like salt in her emotional wound and just make you a convenient target for her to vent her feelings upon. Coincidentally, just like Cho conveniently vented all his feelings on his classmates at VT.
I'm a big proponent of "ripping off the bandaid" and making a clean break. Continuing to associate with her will be like salt in her emotional wound and just make you a convenient target for her to vent her feelings upon. Coincidentally, just like Cho conveniently vented all his feelings on his classmates at VT.
Guillermo
member
This person is obviously too far gone to save. Sadly she will probably have to survive an attack to change her mind.
For those that are hyperemotional I like to ask them if they love their mother. Of course the answer is “yes”. Then I ask them if there mother had a chance against Hulk Hogan in a fist fight. Of course they say “no” (they usually at this point they start to run off at the mouth so you have to shush them)
Then you ask if Hogan could kill their mom before the police could respond. (you see where I am going here)
But if Mom is properly armed old Hulky is a leaking carcass on the floor. Dear old Mom is safe, shaky but safe.
The purpose here is to use their emotions to sway them. Make it personal. If you cannot convince them you can at least tease them. when the subject comes up proclaim that they hate their mother. In addition to irritating them, others often ask what you are talking about. It gives you a second bite at the apple and sometime help to sway the anti.
I knew one who succumbed to the peer presure. Took a break-in to change her mind but until that point she kept her shrill mouth shut.
For those that are hyperemotional I like to ask them if they love their mother. Of course the answer is “yes”. Then I ask them if there mother had a chance against Hulk Hogan in a fist fight. Of course they say “no” (they usually at this point they start to run off at the mouth so you have to shush them)
Then you ask if Hogan could kill their mom before the police could respond. (you see where I am going here)
But if Mom is properly armed old Hulky is a leaking carcass on the floor. Dear old Mom is safe, shaky but safe.
The purpose here is to use their emotions to sway them. Make it personal. If you cannot convince them you can at least tease them. when the subject comes up proclaim that they hate their mother. In addition to irritating them, others often ask what you are talking about. It gives you a second bite at the apple and sometime help to sway the anti.
I knew one who succumbed to the peer presure. Took a break-in to change her mind but until that point she kept her shrill mouth shut.
armoredman
Member
When they do a "lie in", do a "stand up" at the same time/place, with a sign stating, "I represent the 2 million times people in the United States are protected by firearms each year."
If she really wants justice, and for her friends to not have died in vain, she needs to ensure that her and every other student is never left defenseless again. That the Security officers and police are inept at stopping these situations from happening and that it's up to each and every individual to protect themselves and each other.
It should be her duty, if she really cares about her friends, to petition the school board and state legislature to never again allow them to be so vulnerable and unable to defend themselves again.
It should be her duty, if she really cares about her friends, to petition the school board and state legislature to never again allow them to be so vulnerable and unable to defend themselves again.
Clipper
Member
The really ironic thing is that most of us would exercise our 2A rights, fight and die in defense of her right to use her 1A rights to try to take our 2A rights away from us...
Or 'lie in' with them, prominently wearing an empty holster. Maybe with a little headstone with something to the effect that you were 'killed' by a 'gun free' policy...
bogie
Member
FAIL!
WHY do folks persist in trying to use complete sentences for stuff like this? It it's more than 3-5 words, forget it.
My sign suggestions: "Gun Free Zones Kill," "Disarmed Victim," or "Killed by School Policy." Think simple. Think big lettering. Easy to read, easy to photograph.
Anyone have any ideas on how to counter the protests that are happening in three days?
Just had a thought - if ONE person shows up with an empty holster and tries to participate in the "die-in," they'll paint him as a "he who should be without a name" wannabee. You need a bunch. OR you need a bunch of folks, with empty holsters, with signs, to stand by each victim. "Prevented from Protecting" might be a good one. Or make up some small folding signs, and place them by each victim. You'll need to get your counterprotest okayed by the campus first - you KNOW that the Brady folks have organized and planned this for months. You've got two days. Get it together on Monday, or you'll likely have security non-photogenically removing "the crazy gun nuts."
sublimaze41
Member
I admire people's passion even if it misguided in my opinion.
Funny, I love to see this type of passion when it comes to RKBA issues........problem is I would like to see more of it.
Excuse me, it's tough to type when I am clinging to my bible and guns(insert bitterness)
Funny, I love to see this type of passion when it comes to RKBA issues........problem is I would like to see more of it.
Excuse me, it's tough to type when I am clinging to my bible and guns(insert bitterness)
pinstripe
Member
Your friend is thinking with her heart, not her head. I am always telling my children that to avoid confusion you must know the difference between thinking with your head and feeling with your heart. Your heart is incapable of thinking and when you use it instead of your head for a purpose that it was not designed for, then confusion sets in. That is why she stated to you that she " didn't need this right now". She is not motivated by thinking, or common sense, but by feelings and she lets emotions rule the day. Some folks will never see the truth, no matter how hard others try to help them. Good luck with your friendship. Talking gun control with an anti is like talking politics to a Democrat. They will only see what they are "programmed" to see.
armoredman
Member
Yikes, sorry to offend!bogie said:
Aguila Blanca
Member
Her response, "I don't need this right now," is a statement that she is in a state of total denial. What that says is, "My intellect recognizes that you are correct but it challenges what I have chosen to believe, and therefore you are an S.O.B. for putting my mental circuits into overload. How dare you ask me to be rational? Buzz off."
mek42
Member
Being blown off like that from someone you thought was a good friend kind of sucks. Be different if she said, "Well, let's agree to disagree" or something like that - you don't need to be converting each other or anything and still be friends, but that blow off was kinda harsh.
Good luck and I hope everything goes well for you.
Good luck and I hope everything goes well for you.
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