I'm thinking this would be a straw purchase, yes?

[USAF_Vet]

I'm selling a broken revolver that I don't have the time to repair. Because its Michigan, a buyer needs either a purchase permit or a conceal pistol license (and be at least 18).

The buyer does not have a CPL and does not have a pistol purchase permit in hand, but his friend does. If the CPL carrying friend buys the pistol from me, then sells it to the first guy, is that a straw purchase?

I'm thinking yes. The intended buyer should just go get his permit to purchase.

 

[Cesiumsponge]

It seems you already know that his friend will sell it to him. That means you also have direct knowledge before the sale that it'll be a straw purchase.

I'm actually not sure how the straw purchase laws work for the seller who has knowledge that it'll be a straw purchase (accessory to straw purchase?)

 

[USAF_Vet]

Yes, he has told me via text message be does not have a cpl or ppp, but his friend does, and that his friend could buy it then transfer it to him. It raised a flag. I told him to just get the purchase permit.

 

[Telekinesis]

From my understanding, a straw purchase only applies when the seller is a FFL and the buyer is completing a 4473. It is when the buyer lies on the form when answering the question of "are you the actual purchaser of the firearm". A straw purchase should not be possible between two private parties. For more info on straw purchases, there's a nice sticky over in legal (look at post 23 by Frank Ettin).

Now I'm not up on Michigan state law, but I would think that the transfer between the friend with the carry permit/pistol purchase permit and the actual buyer (guy who contacted you) might be questionable under state law, but it's your choice on what you want to do about that. You could either sell it and say its not your problem, or refuse the sale because you don't want to get near a transaction like that. FWIW I think you did the right thing by asking the buyer to get a purchase permit.

 

[Sam1911]

Straw purchase? Actually NO.

A "straw purchase" is specifically the act of lying on the form 4473 about who the actual purchaser is. It ONLY applies in cases of transfers through dealers -- because you won't be filling out a 4473 for your sale.

See this thread: http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=700331

 

[hso]

Yes, all three of you would be breaking the law.

 

[newfalguy101]

Not technically a "straw" purchase, however, as you stated in Michigan a permit is required, therefore, it would still be illegal for you to KNOWINGLY sell the gun to the first guy when you know he is buying it for the other guy.

 

[USAF_Vet]

He is getting the purchase permit, as requested.

 

[NavyLCDR]

It would not be a straw purchase as defined in Federal law. However, if you were knowingly enabling the third party to commit the crime of unlawfully selling the receiver to the real buyer, you would be a conspirator in the crime and likely subject to the same prosecution/conviction the middleman is.

 

[USAF_Vet]

It would not be a straw purchase as defined in Federal law. However, if you were knowingly enabling the third party to commit the crime of unlawfully selling the receiver to the real buyer, you would be a conspirator in the crime and likely subject to the same prosecution/conviction the middleman is.

This is more of what I was asking.

The term straw purchase may not apply, but its still an illegal transfer, which was what I was getting at.

Thanks

 

[Havok7416]

There is one exception to this in Michigan. If the two other people involved are directly related - father/son, etc. - this would be legal. I confirmed this when I lived there and had several guns transferred from dealers with full knowledge provided to the dealer beforehand.

 

[Ryanxia]

There is also a case going to the supreme court that will hopefully clarify if a straw purchase includes buying a gun for someone NOT prohibited. There was a thread about it in the legal section.

 

[k80]

In Michigan, a handgun transfer between unrelated individuals requires a PPP. Transfer from a licensed dealer to an individual requires a PPP OR a CPL.

 

[splithoof]

Be very careful that the boat he is fishing from does not say "ATF" on the side.

 

[Kaeto]

In Michigan, a handgun transfer between unrelated individuals requires a PPP. Transfer from a licensed dealer to an individual requires a PPP OR a CPL.

Not anymore. That changed as of last January 1st. While individual sales still need a Purchase Permit or CPL, sales from a dealer no longer do.

 

[Black Knight]

With it being an illegal sale in Michigan you already know what to do. Do you remember the Starkist Tuna ads? Sorry Charlie.