Im way overthinking steel for bushcraft knife. Advice sought.

[19-3Ben]

OK guys, I’m doing research, and would love your opinions. I am looking for a bushcraft/outdoors knife. Let me explain a bit about my views on knives, and the uses this knife might see and it’ll help narrow things down.

Uses
Uses are across the broad range of circumstances. Everything from an overnight in the backyard with my son, to KOA style camping, day hikes, backpacking, all the way up to hiking the Appalachian trail, or even to use in one of those societal breakdown type events that don’t get discussed here on THR. I live in the northeast where we can see 100F humid summers and sub-zero winters, but could also see taking this knife to other areas.

Views on knives:
Knives are meant for cutting stuff (duh). They aren’t hammers, axes, saws, or any other tool. I don’t baton with my knives, don’t throw them, keep them oiled and generally don’t abuse them.
That said, anyone who has ever spent significant time outdoors knows that unexpected things happen and sometimes gear gets pushed into unanticipated roles, or goes without the type of babying/maintenance that we usually give our gear. This knife must be able to withstand getting pressed into service in harsher conditions than anticipated. But for 99.9% of the foreseeable use of this knife, it would be well oiled, well maintained, and only used properly.

What I’m looking for:
Now, for this knife, I’m looking for something roughly in the 4”-5” blade range. Not into serrations. For tip strength, I usually like something like a drop point or spear point.
I can spend roughly up to $120, and can stretch that just a little if needed.


The actual question:
The number one knife I’m looking at is the Ontario Blackbird SK5 in 154CM.

Of course, I could save myself about $35-40 and get the regular RAT5 in 1095. Ultimately, am I being stupid and buying into hype for wanting 154cm in this role? I LOVE my 154CM Benchmade Griptillian, but of course a fixed blade knife is a whole different context for that steel so my experience doesn’t count for much.

Within my price range, I also found an ESEE 4...

Ultimately, for my purposes as stated do you think I'd be better with 1095, or with 154CM? And yes, I know I'm probably way overthinking it.

Thanks in advance for the replies.

 

[dayhiker]

Not on your list but take a hard look at a Fallkniven F1. Laminated VG10 core, nice 90 degree spine throws sparks from my Light My Fire ferro rod.

A stout ,compact, comfortable handle, tough, low maintenace knife,. Slices better than it should.

I have been using mine iutdoors for 7 years. And it fits in your budget.


And yes you are overthinking the steel issue [emoji2] [emoji2] [emoji2] [emoji2] [emoji2]

 

[jmr40]

The Blackbird looks good, but the ESEE 4 would win for me just because I like the sheath a lot better. To be honest I think I really like the ESEE 3 even better than the 4. The blade is thinner and easier for me to sharpen, only a bit shorter. It won't hold up to hard use as well as the 4, but you've already stated you don't plan on doing that.

For your stated uses and budget you could buy 2 Mora Bushcraft knives and probably be happy.

http://www.amazon.com/Morakniv-Bush...qid=1437402612&sr=8-2&keywords=mora+bushcraft

Other good choices just to keep you confused

http://www.amazon.com/Ka-Bar-Kraton...=1437402698&sr=8-1&keywords=kabar+navy+mark+1

This compares very closely to the ESEE, but a little cheaper

http://www.amazon.com/Ka-Bar-Becker...8&qid=1437402783&sr=1-59&keywords=kabar+knife

You can dress it up, but the cost approaches the ESEE

http://www.amazon.com/Ka-Bar-BK16HN...sim_200_1?ie=UTF8&refRID=1NT4AF8GBJBGTBBGFGZ7

 

[19-3Ben]

It won't hold up to hard use as well as the 4, but you've already stated you don't plan on doing that.

I don't plan on it, but like I said, sometimes equipment gets pushed past what one intends.

When I was doing my initial research before posing the question here, there was a guy on another forum who wrote that he was in one of the areas that was hit very hard by Hurricane Sandy. Parts of his neighborhood were wiped out and he was helping friends doing demo work after the hurricane. His used his Ontario Blackbird to break down furniture, as a pry bar, and even stuck it in a wall and stood on it to get access to something higher up. Of course I don't plan on anything like that, but it's one very real life example of a knife having to exceed "normal use."

I'm don't abuse my knives, but I definitely want something tough enough to offer me a margin for error, should I ever need to.

Oh, and giving me all these options is just cruel.

 

[ugaarguy]

I actually think you're making the right choice with the Blackbird SK-5. The Fallkniven and the other rubber handle knives are nice, and the grippy rubber handles seem like a good idea. The reality is that those grippy handles are going to grab your skin and raise blisters the first time you have to do ant moderately serious chopping with them. Knives like the SK-5 and the Esee / RAT series knives with semi-smooth Micarta or G10 handles with just enough texture for wet grip are a better idea. The smooth hard plastic handles on the Ka-Bar Becker line which provide a positive grip from the handle shape also work well. I wear size XL gloves and I find the Esee-3 / Ontario RAT-3 to be a bit too small in the handle for me to get a comfortable full hand grip. Last, after owning a RAT-3, I'd also prefer a stainless steel blade that doesn't need a coating for rust resistance.

Those preferences have put the Ontario SK-5 at the top of my list for a replacement for the RAT-3 when I decide to buy another fixed blade.

 

[19-3Ben]

Thanks! I greatly appreciate the input!
I've been using my USMC model Kabar for about a decade now, and with proper care and oiling, rust hasn't been an issue yet but it's always there in the back of my mind.

 

[hso]

buying into hype for wanting 154cm in this role

1095 will do just fine. Heck, I live in the TN Valley and attend most of Ethan Becker's Beckerhead gatherings and I've not seen any problem with 1095, nor anything one of the BKTs couldn't handle with all those looneys trying to outdo each other with bushcraft skills. A BK16 sounds like it would fit what you want. Strip the powdercoat and use the heck out of it.

 

[Tirod]

The ESEE Laser Strike 5" spear point in 1095 would be more directly comparable than a 4". The differences amount to the blade steel, use of kydex vs a nylon webbing sheath, and you get a firestriker with the ESEE. Prices run almost identically.

The Laser Strike is available in black or tan (which was a short run and getting rare.)

The difference in 154CM and 1095 is one of incremental differences. For cutting and resharpening as a package I'd prefer the carbon steel. Around more corrosive environments such as the tropics or near a sea shore the 154 would cut down on maintenance. In terms of overall strength, bending, tip breakage, etc I don't see one having more ability than the other as blade shape has more to do with it. Both are nearly the same.

When a comparison becomes this closely matched it winds up being an internal perception of maker and reputation kind of decision. Me, I "get" the handle on the ESEE, because the Ontario seems to have sharp ends. Having never held either, I would also say it means nothing until it was in my hands. It's simply a visual perception that might be an issue. And it very well might not.

If possible it would be the next step in the process. Get them in the hand to see what works for you. I've found that interacting with the merchandise always brings up something not easily communicated or understood.

 

[SlayerOfBunnies]

Becker BK16 for the win.

 

[dayhiker]

The Fallkniven and the other rubber handle knives are nice, and the grippy rubber handles seem like a good idea. The reality is that those grippy handles are going to grab your skin and raise blisters the first time you have to do ant moderately serious chopping with them.

This has happened to you?

 

[ugaarguy]

This has happened to you?

Yep, over a decade ago as an overly enthusiastic teen with a Cold Steel Kobun Tanto. Rubberized grips can be great on cutters, but I'm not a fan of them on choppers.

 

[dayhiker]

I had a Cold Steel Carbon V Tanto back in the early 90's. Was an OK knife.

Our experiances with rubber handles does differ however. I like them.[emoji4]

My F1 vs Maple.Please pardon the old pics.

 

[ugaarguy]

Nice pics, and nice work.

 

[hso]

Baton or chopping?

 

[dayhiker]

Baton or chopping?

A little of both.

The F1 is kind off light for chopping. Not much foreward weight.

So I cheated and batoned through the center.

In the seven years I have been using that knife I have never had a problem with blisters, or even hot spots.

 

[19-3Ben]

The ESEE Laser Strike 5" spear point in 1095 would be more directly comparable than a 4". The differences amount to the blade steel, use of kydex vs a nylon webbing sheath, and you get a firestriker with the ESEE. Prices run almost identically.

I've been looking at this knife since you mentioned it. That's a very very nice piece of kit right there. Price, as you mentioned, is spot on comparable with the Ontario Black Bird. I think the extras that come with the ESEE, along with their warranty are selling it for me, over the Ontario, but honestly, I feel like I wouldn't go wrong with either...

Now, how many angels can we get on the head of this pin?

 

[19-3Ben]

dayhiker- That Fallkniven is a really nice looking knife. I think it would be a tad short for what I'm looking for, and the rubbery handles just don't do it for me. I'm really hoping for something like Micarta, G10, etc...

 

[19-3Ben]

Ok, at this point it's really between the ESEE Laser Strike, and the Ontario SK5.

One thing that concerns me, is take a look at the handle on the Laser Strike.


I've read a couple of reviews saying that if you just grip the main part of the handle itself, it's too small for a comfortable hand hold, but that if you extend and use the choil, it puts the hand in an awkward position.
What do you guys think of this? Other people say it's perfectly comfortable... go figure. Unfortunately, I wouldn't get to hold it before trying.

Worst case scenario, I guess that's what return policies are for.

 

[hso]

The index finger in the choil is the "normal" grip.

 

[19-3Ben]

The index finger in the choil is the "normal" grip.

Ah, but the real question is, would Doug Marcaida tell me that "It... will... kill."
We all know that's the ultimate measure of a knife.

 

[hso]

A sharpened piece of sheet metal would get that "valuable" praise on a soft enough target.

 

[MartinS]

If you like overthinking you need more to think about, feast your mind on these...
http://www.ragweedforge.com/

 

[Bobson]

Baton or chopping?

What's the difference between them? I thought they were interchangeable in this context.

 

[Water-Man]

Save your money. Buy a Condor Bushlore. It will do everything you need and then some.

 

[hso]

I thought they were interchangeable in this context.

Think about it this way- an edge in contact with something is lined up and has different momentum associated with it when the baton strikes it on the spine than one swung into contact where the edge will undergo different impulse forces and shock that might not be aligned.