Importance of ‘BP load development’ to find the BEST group!

Lefty38-55

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Here’s how I do it!

GIVEN - Every barrel on any type of firearm or firelock - using ANY type of propellant or powdah - vibrates like a tuning fork when shot and the barrel whips in a sine wave manner, typically vibrating up & down like a looooong sideways 'S'.

A node is where the barrel is at the point(s) of the LEAST movement. That is when you want your shot to be fired. There may be several nodes identified as you increase your powder charge. To test this, you ‘randomly’ shoot 3-shot groups at a bullseye for each charge, beginning with your starting load and say working up in 5-grain increments for a few different charges. Repeat with other sets, up to what you think may be near your max charge, say if you wanted to identify a lower co$t or more accurate target load, as well as a heavier hunting load.

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Note - One does NOT shoot all of one charge at once, but shoot them in a random pattern, as then 'statistically' you will have normalized the data by eliminating YOUR bias and spreading any human-induced variation across ALL of the shots and groups.

Examples of such bias are your aim/hold, light on the target, cheek and/or shoulder position or pressure, yanking the trigger or like when you begin to shoot poorly towards the end when tired. Any such factor - independent of the load - could adversely influence or bias the last group's results. Statistically shooting them in a round-robin manner thus significantly increases the confidence you can place in the results. For consistency, I pre-load the charges in plastic tubes marked with the charge weight.

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Those shots with the tightest group denote the range around a node. To fine tune, then experiment around the identified node, if you care to. I also do similar for my modern unmentionable 1,000-yard rifle, but this method (as based on science/physics) also works for black powdah as I have proven many times. Believe or not, but on a strictly MZL Forum, I get many PMs saying that one can’t apply ‘modern theory’ to il’ black powder shootin’! To which I say ‘bunk’!

The summary here is … that in as little as 12-shots I determined what load this 48” barreled ‘Rob Miller’ Carolina 62-cal flint smoothbore likes!
 
I'm of two minds on this.

On one hand, yes, modern techniques can deliver results. I do find that "vibration nodes" are generally less noticeable with big bore muzzleloaders, as the relatively large barrels are usually stiffer than their centerfire counterparts - but the technique still works.

On the other hand, when speaking of guns with open sights, and with ballistics that tend to limit the shooter to one or two hundred yards, the last bit of group-shooting accuracy may not be especially important.

I personally no longer enjoy sitting down with slide rules and chronographs and would rather just shoot. (I also don't especially enjoy shooting from the bench anymore, either.) My "load development" - at least with things like flintlocks, as opposed to long range target guns - involves little more than shooting off hand with various powder charges and seeing if any of them are noticeably better or worse. Obviously there is a bunch of information that gets lost in the noise with such a "technique", but honestly, if I can't tell a difference between loads used the way I always use them, then I don't care if there is any difference!
 
Interesting. There is definitely a node but I guess for BP, I think more in terms of compression of the cartridge. The less powder the less compression and the more powder, the more the compression. This translates to what volume in the case is best based on the powder and bullet you are using. My TD likes light compression charges, while my 2.1 Sharps likes medium for Swiss 1.5.
 
It’s hard to test and tune using pellets, but yes, it makes sense to find what the barrel likes. My adjustable powder measure has a deeply scored line at about 85 grains which is about as hard and fast as my TC 45 cap lock will shoot before it gets erratic again. My 50s are all gone now except for the “canoe gun” but it’s more of a stagecoach type leadslinger and currently has no sights. I dump 120gr into it, push down a sabot as a wad (upside down generally) and load as necessary for the days adventures. I really like a double ball load in that one, and have shot plenty of other things just for the fun of it.
 
I fully get the idea of shooting for fun !

The reason I do it … I shoot competitively - all offhand shooting - THE most difficult type of shooting to do.

I think one can understand that I should be able to do a heck of a lot better with a gun and load capable of a 1” group versus a load capable of a 3-4” group …
 
There is no one load fits all in bp rifles. They're just like smokeless rifles in that each one has to have a load developed for it. A thick muzzleloader barrel is going to whip a lot less than a 30-06 with a sporter barrel. You can find a load that agrees with the harmonics but you've usually got to work for it.
 
I really like a double ball load in that one, and have shot plenty of other things just for the fun of it.
Yes, the under rated double ball load, my new favorite in my "canoe", or "coach", "cabin" or "teepee" gun. It's a bit longer than a true "canoe" gun, a cut-down and bubba'd ex-zouave, but it shoots the double ball pretty well. I'm pretty impressed with the lack of spread at 50 yards, and the nice "snake-eyes" pattern at around 25 yards, which is where I'd actually use it at. If Grizz or Mr. Wolf are 25 yards or further, and not behaving badly, I'll let them go their way.
 
A thick muzzleloader barrel is going to whip a lot less than a 30-06 with a sporter barrel. You can find a load that agrees with the harmonics but you've usually got to work for it.

You know how I always recommend Load Development to find YOUR best load?

Well, a guy’s been following my posts and he finally took my advice … with a thick/straight octagonal MZL barrel ... and take a look! In only 12-shots he found the BEST ‘target’ load! Harmonics and physics will ALWAYS apply!

He fired them as I advise, randomly shooting a different grain load, but at the correct target, as this negates any bias or one getting tired. But it also forces you to ‘focus’. [Tip - I have few dozen plastic ‘test tubes’ & I fill the powder charges at home.]

Let’s just say they’re a firm believer of this method now!

Benched, 25Y
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Offhand, 25Y
36843C0A-E8E1-4E3F-946D-A67E5F827A57.jpeg
 
You know how I always recommend Load Development to find YOUR best load?

Well, a guy’s been following my posts and he finally took my advice … with a thick/straight octagonal MZL barrel ... and take a look! In only 12-shots he found the BEST ‘target’ load! Harmonics and physics will ALWAYS apply!

He fired them as I advise, randomly shooting a different grain load, but at the correct target, as this negates any bias or one getting tired. But it also forces you to ‘focus’. [Tip - I have few dozen plastic ‘test tubes’ & I fill the powder charges at home.]

Let’s just say they’re a firm believer of this method now!

Benched, 25Y
00718090-807E-4203-8053-C50777223BF5.jpeg



Offhand, 25Y
36843C0A-E8E1-4E3F-946D-A67E5F827A57.jpeg
That stainless lock (hard chrome????) would look pretty cool on my TC. !!!
 
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I wore the finish off of one of my TC’s locks. Looks just like that only not so shiny.
It looks like hard chrome. One company that would hard chrome guns or parts called it "Armaloy". I had an old model Blackhawk that was "armaloyed". I have a single shot shotgun (Companion) which I believe is hard chromed on the receiver. It is tough stuff, how did you wear any off?? Dang!
 
OK, here is the Special Sporting Short Rifle with traditional open sight.
The Hunter with rail is the only one available in .44 Magnum, though. Maybe it is beefed up inside.

Image 2.jpg
 
It looks like hard chrome. One company that would hard chrome guns or parts called it "Armaloy". I had an old model Blackhawk that was "armaloyed". I have a single shot shotgun (Companion) which I believe is hard chromed on the receiver. It is tough stuff, how did you wear any off?? Dang!
TC also made a stainless steel version for a time. It was called SilverHawk or something like that which is what’s I think this one is, with a blue Barrel of course.
 
The Silverhawk had a synthetic stock. Could be someone swapped out some parts with it on this one.
 
The reason I do it … I shoot competitively

That’s a good reason, to develop for the best group.

For other things ultimate accuracy is less important. I often hunt with combinations that are not the most accurate. They have been historically (for me) the most deadly though.
 
My loading with BP is all BPCR so not ML loading. Since mine are 1800's cartridge rifles, loading is into cases, and of course case fill is important. But also compression, wads, and bullet weight also are big parts of the formula for accuracy. Along with lube grease, since I don't paper patch and shoot grease groove bullets.
I can change wad thickness, the amount of compression, the fg size of powder, and brands, or even lots of the same powder, and get different accuracy.
There is no set formula for specific bullet weight, powder, charge, wad, wiping methods, etc. that works exactly the same for everyone, or everyone's gun, even if two guns have the same cartridge, and same barrel length and contour. Ask 20 guys shooting BPCR rifles, and none of them are doing everything exactly the same. They may do some things the same, but not everything. And they may all be successful at their procedure, even if you might not be doing the same thing.
 
I am leery of the present custom of choosing a load on one three shot target.
It works perfectly for me. Offhand, with open sights, I'm a 10 MOA shooter at best. So rather than waste a bunch of powder and lead shooting groups from the bench, I shoot one 3 shot group and call it good, because no matter how bad it is, it can't be worse than me!
 
When I get a new rifle I shoot a five shot group from the bench and then adjust the sights. Once I'm sighted in I shoot another five shot group. Once that's done it never sees a bench again.
 
I would like to see 12 shots, better 12 groups with that 50 gr load. I am leery of the present custom of choosing a load on one three shot target.
@Jim Watson - Reading is fundamental, LOL ...

You had clearly missed the note about fine tuning one's load around the range identifed where the node exists, as presented way back up in the 1st post of this topic.

Tune.jpg

Here's my 1st 10-shot group @ 200-yards test using the node that the smaller 5-shot group (I use 3 for BP, 5 for rim or centerfire node detection) had identified, out of my F-Class 308 Win. Convinced yet? The L to R dispersion is all shoulder pressure whilst shootin' off bipods.

308F.JPG
 
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