Improving Accuracy, 45ACP, SIG P220, Zero 185gr, JHP

[vaalpens]

this is my last step when i work up a load.

luck,

murf

p.s. nice shootin'!

Thanks for the comments. I'm not at the last step yet. I'll only get to it if I have a consistent very accurate load, and I feel I want to try and get to an even tighter group.

Regrading the "p.s. nice shootin'!". Looks like I have to adjust the grouping from .59" to .63" after some additional measuring. I normally use additional apps to verify a grouping, especially if I start posting the results in a forum.

 

[Blue68f100]

Follow up on my Mag primer comment earlier. I looked back through some of mine old data I had where I used CCI LP then later switched to WLP , 200gr LSWC and WST powder. The Std CCI LP primer produced single digit SD, where the WLP was double digit. I've changed powder lots some where alone the way so that may have been the cause. If you have both, it would not take much to verify. Both of these shot <2" groups at 50 yrds. These were shot from my custom built 1911 with a Kart barrel.

If your gun is having problems feeding SWC make sure your using a magazine designed for SWC or hybrid follower. Makes a huge difference in shooting LSWC.

 

[Walkalong]

I'm a little slow lately, does that mean there is a different reason? If so I would like to know because I don't want to pass on bad information.

Bullet is shorter than the round nose 230 grain bullet, don’t know if they make it any more. So of course OAL is shorter for the same seating depth.

 

[vaalpens]

Follow up on my Mag primer comment earlier. I looked back through some of mine old data I had where I used CCI LP then later switched to WLP , 200gr LSWC and WST powder. The Std CCI LP primer produced single digit SD, where the WLP was double digit. I've changed powder lots some where alone the way so that may have been the cause. If you have both, it would not take much to verify. Both of these shot <2" groups at 50 yrds. These were shot from my custom built 1911 with a Kart barrel.

If your gun is having problems feeding SWC make sure your using a magazine designed for SWC or hybrid follower. Makes a huge difference in shooting LSWC.

Thanks again for the comments.

Regarding the SWC bullets. I did not have a lot of the SWC bullets to try different things, but it seems the P220 issue with SWC's is known. I don't know if it has a different follower specifically for SWC's. This is just one of the comments that I have seen regarding how to resolve the issue:

I have firsthand experience having reloaded SWC for my P220. First, it has to fit in the magazine. Second, there must be enough of a shoulder for the SWC bullet to feed. Go with the minimum listed OAL and lengthen to the limits of the magazine until it feeds reliably.

 

[vaalpens]

So of course OAL is shorter for the same seating depth.

It would be nice if load data included the seating depth or length of bullet.

 

[LiveLife]

It would be nice if load data included the seating depth or length of bullet.

Published load data lists OAL/COL and bullet used.

We can reference bullet length from bullet used and subtract from OAL to obtain bullet seating depth. (Of course, actual bullet seating depth will vary depending on resized case length)

 

[Walkalong]

It would be nice if load data included the seating depth or length of bullet.

I agree. I log both bullet length and OAL with every load

 

[LiveLife]

I log both bullet length and OAL with every load

Good "best practices" approach to reloading.

 

[vaalpens]

I agree. I log both bullet length and OAL with every load

Good "best practices" approach to reloading.

I don't log the bullet length with every load, but I do have a separate worksheet in my Load Data spreadsheet where I document the min/max/avg length of bullets I load.

 

[vaalpens]

To my surprise I found this thread to be still alive so I di not have to start a continued... thread.

I'm not going to bore you with a long story why it took me more than a year before I am able to add another test to this thread, but I am still working on finding a load that will improve on my best grouping load in 45acp with my p220. I am not trying to win any competitions, just improve on what I have done before.

The test on 9/14 tested 6 different loads using 700x with the same Zero 185gr JHP bullet. I maybe expected better results, but it was sweet to smell the burnt 700x powder again.

During this test is when I started having issues with the chrono towards the end. The velocities seem to be in line what I expected, but the last load did not register anything. It seems that I could lower the charge to 4.2 and 4.3 and see what I get. Following are the test results:

45acp, P220, 4.4"Case: Federal COL: 1.200" Zero, 185gr, JHP, 700X, 4.4gr, FED150 Average: 699 ES: 28 SD: 10.6 Force: 201 PF: 129 Velocities: 701, 696, 705, 711, 683 Grouping @ 15yd: 0.77" Test Date: 09/14/2023

45acp, P220, 4.4"Case: Federal COL: 1.200" Zero, 185gr, JHP, 700X, 4.5gr, FED150 Average: 708 ES: 28 SD: 11.4 Force: 206 PF: 130 Velocities: 694, 704, 704, 722, 718 Grouping @ 15yd: 0.74" Test Date: 09/14/2023

45acp, P220, 4.4" Case: Federal COL: 1.200" Zero, 185gr, JHP, 700X, 4.6gr, FED150 Average: 722 ES: 18 SD: 7.4 Force: 214 PF: 133 Velocities: 712, 727, 724, 717, 730 Grouping @ 15yd: 1.05" Test Date: 09/14/2023

45acp, P220, 4.4" Case: Federal COL: 1.200" Zero, 185gr, JHP, 700X, 4.7gr, FED150 Average: 751 ES: 25 SD: 10.6 Force: 232 PF: 138 Velocities: 761, 753, 754, 736, Grouping @ 15yd: 1.08" Test Date: 09/14/2023

45acp, P220, 4.4" Case: Federal COL: 1.200" Zero, 185gr, JHP, 700X, 4.8gr, FED150 Average: 756 ES: 14 SD: 5.7 Force: 235 PF: 139 Velocities: 760, 755, 759, 761, 747 Grouping @ 15yd: 0.85" Test Date: 09/14/2023

45acp, P220, 4.4" Case: Federal COL: 1.200" Zero, 185gr, JHP, 700X, 4.9gr, FED150 Average: ES: 0 SD: Force: PF: Velocities: , , , , Grouping @ 15yd: 1.56" Test Date: 09/14/2023

 

[murf]

a battery change in order here?

or, take your best group and fiddle with the col?

murf

 

[mkl]

Maybe I just have a strange 220, but so far it shoots Winchester WSF better than anything. See if you can borrow a few ounces and check it out behind a 230 or 200 grain bullet.

 

[vaalpens]

a battery change in order here?

or, take your best group and fiddle with the col?

murf

The plan is to try a few more powders, then try and fine tune specific loads. That is when I'll try different COL's, and primers and maybe a bit more selective regarding length/weight of the the cases and bullets.

 

[vaalpens]

Maybe I just have a strange 220, but so far it shoots Winchester WSF better than anything. See if you can borrow a few ounces and check it out behind a 230 or 200 grain bullet.

Thanks for the information. This thread is for the Zero 185gr JHP bullet, but I have WSF and will try it with a 230gr bullet. Do you have a specific COL and load that works best?

 

[mkl]

I don't have a bullet as light as 185 grains, so cannot comment as to accuracy at that weight.
using.

I never measured COL. Was using new Starline brass.

On-line tables for Winchester WSF has reloading info.

 

[vaalpens]

I don't have a bullet as light as 185 grains, so cannot comment as to accuracy at that weight.
using.

I never measured COL. Was using new Starline brass.

On-line tables for Winchester WSF has reloading info.

Thanks. Yes, I see both Hodgdon and Lyman 50 have WSF loads for 230gr bullets.

 

[vaalpens]

So accuracy node identified by Shooting Times Ransom Rest test seems to be around 4.6 gr of Titegroup. And these are smallest groups produced by other powders:

• Bullseye 4.9 gr - 1.55" (826 fps) WLP
• Clays 4.0 gr - 1.49" (675 fps) WLP
• N310 4.3 gr - 1.51" (800 fps) WLP
• W231 5.0 gr - 1.28" (709 fps) CCI 300
• W231 5.3 gr - 1.22" (771 fps) WLP
• WST 5.0 gr - 1.77" (835 fps) WLP

Based on the above information, and Lyman 50th indicating HP-38 as possibly most accurate, I decided that the next powder to be tested with this bullet will be HP-38. For now the powder range will probably be 4.9, 5.0, 5.1, 5.2, 5.3, 5.4. Then depending on the results, I could expand on the powder range. Not sure yet which primer to use: CCI300, CCI350, FED150, FED155.

 

[LiveLife]

Based on the above information, and Lyman 50th indicating HP-38 as possibly most accurate, I decided that the next powder to be tested with this bullet will be HP-38. For now the powder range will probably be 4.9, 5.0, 5.1, 5.2, 5.3, 5.4. Then depending on the results, I could expand on the powder range.

Great ... Looking forward to your range report.

Not sure yet which primer to use: CCI300, CCI350, FED150, FED155.

Can you start out with CCI 300, standard primer?

 

[Dudedog]

HP38/W231 has always worked well for me in .45.

 

[vaalpens]

Can you start out with CCI 300, standard primer?

The article lists CCI 300 and WLP. I don't have WLP, so CCI 300 is the chosen one.

 

[vaalpens]

HP38/W231 has always worked well for me in .45.

Thanks Dudedog. It will be interesting to see how it performs with the 185gr bullet, since it works well with the 230gr fmj bullet.

 

[vaalpens]

The next batch of loads have been created using HP38, Zero 185gr JHP, Winchester cases and CCI300 primers as components. Not all the cases are the same length, but I did measure the cases and grouped them by length. So at least each individual load will have the same length case.


I have started planning the next powder to be used, and I think it is going to be Bullseye. The plan is to at least include 4.9gr and 5.0gr loads. I just need to decide how to bracket the two loads.

 

[Walkalong]

Have you shot them with N-310? I haven't read the whole thread. I've had good luck with that combo.

 

[1KPerDay]

Can’t remember. Are you using a ransom rest?

 

[vaalpens]

Have you shot them with N-310? I haven't read the whole thread. I've had good luck with that combo.

No, I have not. I'll have to do some research and see if N-310 works well in other cartridges also. If it does then I'll look for it and give it a try.