Improving firing reliability of M1 carbine

[Batty67]

Okay, my second-hand Auto Ordnance M1 carbine is kept clean and lightly lubiciated, especially the feed ramp. Yet I continue to have about 5% fail to fire (eject and/or load) or 1-3 per 50 rounds for FMJ. This FTF rate seems consistent for the brands I've tried FMJ (Aquila, TULA, Remingon UMC, American Eagle, and PPV). This goes up for JSPs (10-15% FTF) and Cor-bon hollow-points are jam-o-matics (50%!) with the 15-rd mags.

I have 10 15-rd mags (8 newer and 2 USGS) and 4 30-rd mags (all newer).
They can't all be bad mags either (though I did toss one really bad on in the garbage; I had 10 more). Same rates with USGI 15-rd mags.

Is there something I can do, pull-apart, clean, check, or otherwise reduce the FTF to 1% or less for FMJ, and less than 5% for JSP? Should it go to a gunsmith, and if so, what should I ask to be done, etc.?

Go ahead and get detailed/technical. I really like my M1 carbine, my hands-down favorite gun to shoot, but I need it to be more reliable...thanks

 

[briansmithwins]

I'd call AO and see what they will do for you.

Some manufacturers will stand behind their products even if it's used.

BSW

 

[HorseSoldier]

So it's failing to both load and extract on occasion?

How many of the components of the AO carbines are new production and how many (if any) are surplus USGI? Maybe getting it looked over by a 'smith and anything out of spec or suspect replaced with USGI parts might do the trick.

 

[Al Thompson]

Call AO. IIRC, the early M1 carbines had some issues.

 

[Nicky Santoro]

Yet I continue to have about 5% fail to fire (eject and/or load)

Please describe exactly what is occurring.

 

[Batty67]

Thanks for response. Yes, for JSPs failure to load (stuck on feed ramp) is most common, but I hear M1 carbines are well-known difficulty loading JSPs/hollow-points. For FMJ fail to extract and fail to load seem about the same rates. Cor-bons were so messed up (in 15-rd mags) I could not tell what the problem was.

Accuracy is great and failure to load/eject rate is barely acceptable, I suppose, but it would be great to improve its reliability.

 

[Batty67]

You know, now that I think about it even more carefully, for fail to fires in general, the next round is stuck partially in the chamber and on the feed ramp at a bad angle so I have to lock the slide back, hit the safety, drop the mag, and the round either drops out, or I have to pull it out (depends on the angle and how far it is partially in the chamber). For JSPs, I'd say fail to load is virtually the only screw-up, but al too common.

So, I think failure to load is by far most common, though I rarely (1 in a 100)have a spent casing stuck/wedged by the slide that has started home before the casing cleared. I've been told that fail to loads are usually the fault of the magazine, and I should get some authentic USGI (15-rd) mags. I did, and same failure rates, and I have 10 mags. How can they all be bad. Being a scientist, and experimenting with mags (again, 30-rds seem to work better, but I greatly prefer shooting the 15s) and ammo types, and having the same FTF (load) rates, makes me think it is more likely the weapon, not the mags.

But I'm no gunsmith.

 

[Nicky Santoro]

I'd start by polishing the feed ramp to remove any machining marks and obvious roughness. The bullet nose, especially on the HPs and SPs might be sticking a bit and then popping loose causing a misfeed.

 

[jcwit]

The U.S. carbine was made to use FMJ round nose bullets, not hollow points. I load Cast 100 gr. bullets and have shot 10's of thousands thru my carbine with no problems.

Change your use of bullet shape.

 

[Batty67]

Okay, FTL rates are ~5% for FMJ, which is what I shoot 90% of the time. Cor-Bon are disaster. Looks like I need to learn how polish the feed ramp (for starter), I'll bet there is a youtube video on this somewhere...

 

[Lee Roder]

Unfortunately, since your carbine is not USGI spec, troubleshooting becomes exponentially more complicated than it would otherwise be. Replacing parts with their USGI counterparts doesn't seem viable.

For background on the many wonders of this commercial reproduction, see

http://www.m1carbinesinc.com/carbine_kahr.html

and especially here

http://www.qando.net/?p=5177

Have you tried using an Auto-Ordnance magazine?

 

[Batty67]

Thanks, my experiences with the AO carbine are not even close to the person in the latter link. I'll polish the feed ramp and see how that works. Per the first website, function and parts should be almost identical to USGI versions. I can live with a 5% FTF for FMJ, and I hope I can improve on that. Cor-Bon is mega-expensive, and Speer JSP were 100%.

 

[Ignition Override]

I'm glad that you guys' experiences were better than mine.

My AO Carbine was bought brand-new from "Guns And Ammo" in October 2007, on Summer Ave. in Memphis TN.
This was my first gun purchase (age 52).

Using only brand-new Remington ammo (not knowing about Wolf etc), it worked fine for the first 300 rds. or so. It was handled carefully and never dropped or hit.

One day the bolt seemed to be binding a good bit. My only previous gun experience was with the old Savage .22.
Trying to loosen the bolt, it somehow jammed, solid as a rock.
The gun smith would not touch it and AO did a free repair. Maybe you can imagine the level of disappointment. And guys call the SKS "commie junk"....makes no sense to me. I own an SKS.

While it was at the factory awaiting repair, I then operated the bolt on a GI carbine at a store, and immed. noticed how much more rugged the bolt felt than the bolt on the AO.

 

[FMJMIKE]

Sell the AO and get a USGI Carbine......IMHO.

 

[Batty67]

Ow, not ready to sell it by a long shot. It is accurate and reliable enough (just), but I'm simply trying to get the FTF down to 1% or so (5% now). I'm hoping polishing the feed ramp really well will get me close(r). So far, I've fired about 700-800 rounds through it, and the previous (original) owner put 500 or so through it.

Plus, USGI M1s are really "hot" now and over-priced due to recent demand = bad time to get one. Plus, I really don't want a vintage M1 anyhow.

 

[jcwit]

Keep us posted on how it works out.

Regarding the vintage vs AO, the Vintage will increase in value, the AO will always be, well just an AO.

 

[Batty67]

I'll provide an update when I polish the ramp and after I shoot it. Don't get me wrong, I'd like to get a USGI M1 carbine some day, and will shoot it, but it will be treated as a piece of history.

But the AO M1 carbine is my "tactical/SHTF/shooter" carbine, I'll probably put 1k rounds through it a year.

 

[Snowdog]

I'm fortunate that my Kahr/AO M1 Carbine is perfectly reliable with FMJ, JSP and so far JHP (Corbon). I'm probably at around the 700 round mark since I purchased it new in 2008 but I'm quite happy with it. It's far more accurate than I previously believed M1 Carbines to be. Mine will readily produce a small ragged hole at 25 yards with very little effort. I haven't shot mine at much further ranges as I consider it a close-range carbine. I trust mine enough to use it for home defense.

Did I mention how pretty it is? Reliable, accurate and pretty... I think it's a nice combination, personally.

To my knowledge, GI parts will interchange with a Kahr M1 Carbine as it was cloned after a circa-1943 Saginaw. I haven't tried to prove this, but I will say GI mags aren't a problem. The newer Korean 15-round mags are great too.

I'd personally agree with the others and look into having it factory repaired. If you're having issues with hardball, there is an obvious defect with your carbine.

I'm aware some have had issues with their AO carbines, not due to defective parts but more from shoddy fitting and QC. If you have one witout defects, you're in great shape.

 

[briansmithwins]

I'll provide an update when I polish the ramp and after I shoot it

Doing any work yourself, no matter how minor or how skilled you are, will likely void your warranty.

Check with the place you bought it. The may handle the warranty return for you.

BSW

 

[lencac]

Replace the firing pin and extractor with NEW USGI.
I worked for me.

 

[LeonCarr]

Have you tried different magazines? IME 90% of malfunctions in semi auto/full auto firearms are due to the magazine, ammunition, or a dirty chamber. I would try a new GI type 15 round magazine (make sure you remove all of the preservative inside and out), shoot 110 grain FMJ ammo loaded to military specifications (1990 +/- fps), and concentrate on keeping the chamber clean. If it is 100% with the FMJs, try the SPs or HPs.

I would also use some (a light coat) of grease on the rails where the operating rod rides and interior bolt locking lug recesses. This should help smooth out the bolt operation.

Just my .02,
LeonCarr

 

[Maverick223]

Don't get me wrong, I'd like to get a USGI M1 carbine some day, and will shoot it, but it will be treated as a piece of history.

But the AO M1 carbine is my "tactical/SHTF/shooter" carbine, I'll probably put 1k rounds through it a year.

No offense, but I believe you have it backwards. The AO should be treated as a piece of history (as they, sometime soon, will begin to fade into obscurity), while the USGI carbine was designed from the ground up to perform as a tactical carbine (and will be around for a long, long, time), and the ones I have shot (including several thousand rounds through my own) have been extremely reliable and durable. In fact mine shoots Speer SWC-HP (notorious for failures) and SPs (my typical fodder because they can be loaded just as cheap as FMJ and are more useful) just as well as standard ball. The only AO I recall shooting was less than spectacular, but did okay with 15rnd magazines and FMJ.

To answer the original question, I think the problem is probably your feed ramp because of the problems you are having with HP/SP cartridges, but it also could be your magazine catch (not aligning the cartridges correctly), gas system (not venting enough gas to completely cycle), or your recoil spring (not enough pressure to completely return the bolt to battery). I concur that a call to AO/Kahr would be a good start, followed by boxing it up to ship back or a trip to the local competent gunsmith depending upon what they have to say about your problems.

 

[HorseSoldier]

Yeah, the M1 carbine I had (since sold -- marriage can make one a little crazy sometimes ) was definitely a shooter, nothing about it warranted it getting the glass case treatment ('44 Inland, re-arsenaled mix master, with all the late and post war improvements or alternate parts). Great gun, ran like a top, and could hit steel chest plates at 200-250 meters if I did my part -- and absolutely no reason not to run it except the cost of ammo.

Even an all correct/original weapon, I'd probably keep it as a shooter. Probably the only scenario where I could see white gloves and display casing an M1 carbine would be if I could show a specific provenance to an individual or unit from WW2 or Korea. At that point it becomes a different category of history for me.

(Or if I ever did the paperwork and had someone build me a copy of one of the "advisor gun" SBR'ed carbines that were popular in with US troops in SE Asia early in the Vietnam years.)