"IMR Target/Red/Green and Vectan Ba 9.5/Ba 9"

[LiveLife]

Powder Valley showed new IMR Target/Red/Green/Blue powders in stock (but not Unequal) so I ordered Target, Red and Green to try.

New IMR powders are meant to burn clean, meter accurately, provide top performance characteristics and REACH compliant (powders are not harmful to the environment) - http://www.imrpowder.com/shotpist.html

Based on what I have read, they seem comparable to Alliant Bullseye/Red Dot/Green Dot/Unique/Blue Dot and look forward to doing some comparison range testing.

I have been wanting to try Nobel Sport Vectan powders so added Ba 9.5 and Ba 9 to the order which are comparable to Red Dot and Unique.

 

[muncie21]

Interested to hear how the Ba 9.5 performs. I've read that it is supposed to be similar to VV N320.

 

[bbqreloader]

Is the Red for pistol lead only or are you trying plated/ fmj too? The green is for just shotgun only or am I missing pistol data? Just curious? Thanks.

 

[LiveLife]

Interested to hear how the Ba 9.5 performs. I've read that it is supposed to be similar to VV N320.

According to Vectan burn rate chart, Ba 9.5 is listed with Red Dot, 700X and N320 - https://www.grafs.com/uploads/technical-resource-pdf-file/20.pdf

While I have used N320, I haven't used other VV powders because of higher cost and couldn't justify spending more when I am more than happy with accuracy I get with Alliant/Hodgdon/Winchester powders. I am looking forward to seeing how Ba 9.5 performs in terms of accuracy compared to other similar burn rate powders.

Is the Red for pistol lead only or are you trying plated/ fmj too? The green is for just shotgun only or am I missing pistol data?

I currently use Red Dot/Promo as general purpose powder for 9mm/45ACP plinking/range practice loads. Promo has worked very well to produce accurate pistol loads with lead/coated lead and plated/jacketed bullets. And for carbine loads, Promo with RMR 100 gr thick plated RN has produced the smallest shot groups for me so far (sub 2" at 50 yards). If new IMR Red performs on par with Red Dot/Promo and meters better, they may have a new popular powder with reloaders and match shooters.

Hodgdon recently added pistol load data for IMR Target/Red/Unequal but not for Green/Blue. I have gotten pretty workable light 40S&W loads with Alliant Green Dot and plan on testing IMR Green for 40S&W along with 9mm/45ACP.

 

[LiveLife]

Thanks to 41 Mag for sending me 70th anniversary video interview with Chris Hodgdon for the new IMR powders which confirmed my suspicion that they were comparable to Alliant powders (5:35 minute mark).

I also updated the same/comparable powders thread - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...-different-labels.797388/page-4#post-10484961

 

[Wreck-n-Crew]

I'm interested to know how that Red and Target work. Sure would like to know how the Unequal compares to Unique too.

 

[LiveLife]

Powder Valley only lists Target, Red, Green and Blue under IMR powders.

I am looking for Alliant's new Sport Pistol powder (likely to compete with W231/HP-38). If I locate Unequal when I find Sport Pistol, I will order both to test.

I am curious how Unequal does compared to BE-86.

 

[Havok7416]

I found a few of these powders at the local Cabela's. I am looking forward to your results and I will likely be getting some of my own as soon as funds loosen up.

 

[LiveLife]

The IMR and Vectan powders were delivered from Powder Valley today. I noticed that IMR Target is 16 oz while IMR Red and Green were 14 oz containers (so think "fluffy" for 14 oz powders that fill up cases to easily detect double charges ). These IMR powders are made in Canada while Vectan powders are made in France.

Below is close up comparison picture of IMR Target, Red and Green with W231/HP-38. IMR Target is a small flake powder comparable in size with Alliant Bullseye. IMR Red is slightly larger flake powder than Target with very prominent red flakes. IMR Green has same flake size as Red but with green flakes. Due to small flake size of these IMR powders, I anticipate consistent metering. I will post how they meter when I conduct load development.

Vectan Ba9.5 and Vectan Ba9 are cut extruded powders like Vihtavuori N320 but are cut shorter with most of granules cut short enough to look like disks. Due to small size of granules, I expect very consistent metering.

 

[muncie21]

Looking forward to your Ba 9.5 load tests. If nothing else, to reduce my work, as I have plans to work a load ladder up for 9mm, minor PF in the near future.

 

[LiveLife]

As soon as there's a break in the rain, I will chrono these loads with 115/124 gr bullets.

 

[Walkalong]

I bought a pound of IMR Target at the gun show. The round flakes are very thin and small in diameter as well, which should meter well. I was disappointed to see it is dark colored, being one who likes to see every charge. A light charge in a .357 case is deep in there. It is very bulky and like WST 16 oz nearly fills the Hodgdon one pound container. I expect it to perform a lot like Clays. Time will tell.

 

[Hillbillyz]

Are we sure that loads for Alliant and IMR interchange? Or are they close?

 

[bbqreloader]

Are we sure that loads for Alliant and IMR interchange? Or are they close?

uhh, you lost me on this one?

 

[Walkalong]

IMR Target

 

[bbqreloader]

The target already looks like it should meter well!

 

[Havok7416]

I'm surprised they were able to get away with the flake colors. I could see Alliant throwing a fit over that. Not much they can do though, I suppose.

 

[LiveLife]

Are we sure that loads for Alliant and IMR interchange? Or are they close?

No, not interchangeable but if you look at the charges and velocities, looks comparably close.

Alliant 45ACP load data for Red Dot
200 gr LSWC 1.190" Max 4.5 gr 831 fps
Hodgdon 45ACP load data for IMR Red
200 gr LSWC 1.225" Start 4.4 gr 833 fps - Max 5.3 gr 958 fps

Alliant 45ACP load data for Bullseye
200 gr LSWC 1.190" Max 4.6 gr 807 fps
Hodgdon 45ACP load data for IMR Target
200 gr LSWC 1.225" Start 5.0 gr 900 fps - Max 5.8 gr 1,007 fps

 

[Walkalong]

In the video it says that they was designed to use the same bushings (Volume) in shotgun loads as Alliant's Red Dot, Blue Dot etc.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

I'm still a little surprised Hodgdon put out these new handgun powders under the IMR label. When they moved the older handgun/shotgun powders over to the Hodgdon label they said it was to bring IMR back to a real rifle powder company. It now seems it was really to make room for the new handgun power line. It does make sense. On another note I'm also glad to see they aren't ignoring the Winchester label either.

There are so many powders available today it's enough to make your head spin. I want to try them all but I highly doubt I would have the time or money lol...

 

[LiveLife]

Initial load development and range report - I started the IMR Target testing with 9mm.


With Pro Auto Disk, I got the following drops verified by Ohaus 10-10, Gemini-20 and FA DS-750 scales.

.46 Auto Disk = 4.0 - 4.1 gr
.49 Auto Disk = 4.2 - 4.3 gr
.53 Auto Disk = 4.5 - 4.6 gr


These are the load data I referenced - http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/data/pistol

115 gr Lead RN IMR Target Dia .356" COL 1.100" Start 4.0 gr (1,095 fps) 25,500 PSI - Max 4.5 gr (1,197 fps) 33,100 PSI

115 gr Speer Gold Dot HP IMR Target Dia .355" COL 1.125" Start 4.4 gr (1,084 fps) 28,700 PSI - Max 4.9 gr (1,171 fps) 32,600 PSI

124 gr Berry's HBRN-TP IMR Target Dia .356" COL 1.150" Start 4.1 gr (1,017 fps) 29,000 PSI - Max 4.5 gr (1,109 fps) 32,900 PSI


Following test rounds were loaded for the range test (.378" taper crimp used):

RMR 115 gr FMJ 1.130" OAL: 4.0-4.1 gr, 4.2-4.3 gr, 4.5-4.6 gr
RMR 115 gr HCM 1.130" OAL: 4.0-4.1 gr, 4.2-4.3 gr
RMR 124 gr HCM 1.450" OAL: 4.0-4.1 gr, 4.2-4.3 gr


Chrono data from Glock 22/KKM conversion barrel and Caldwell chronograph:

RMR 115 gr FMJ:
4.0-4.1 gr: 1008-981-991-1023-1034 fps
4.2-4.3 gr: 1049-1053-1067-1055-1085 fps
4.5-4.6 gr: 1162-1166-1138-1110-1151 fps

RMR 115 gr Hardcore Match RN:
4.0-4.1 gr: 986-1002-1071-975-1002 fps
4.2-4.3 gr: 1024-1054-1030-1036-1030 fps

RMR 124 gr Hardcore Match RN:
4.0-4.1 gr: 959-991-984-986-931 fps
4.2-4.3 gr: 1049-1033-1018-1063-1046 fps


25 yard 10 round shot groups with 17" Just Right carbine, Bushnell Banner Dusk & Dawn 6-18x50mm and UTG/Leapers Tactical OP bipod:

RMR 115 gr FMJ at 1.130" with IMR Target 4.5-4.6 gr (Left), 4.2-4.3 gr (Center) and 4.0-4.1 gr (Right)

RMR 115 gr Hardcore Match RN at 1.130" with IMR Target 4.0-4.1 gr (Left) and 4.2-4.3 gr (Right)

RMR 124 gr Hardcore Match RN at 1.145" with IMR Target 4.0-4.1 gr (Left) and 4.2-4.3 gr (Right)

 

[thomas15]

I know you cannot tell anything by just looking at a powder and even less at a picture. But, the Hodgdon website updated burn chart shows IMR Target at #14 and Alliant American Select at #16, very close.

Thanks to 41 Mag for sending me 70th anniversary video interview with Chris Hodgdon for the new IMR powders which confirmed my suspicion that they were comparable to Alliant powders (5:35 minute mark).

In the Power Factor Show vid., Chris Hodgdon states that IMR Target is the fastest but according to the burn chart Red is the fastest.

At the 10:35 mark, Steve asks the obvious question in a graceful way having to do with what they were saying when IMR announced that they were cutting their shotgun powders (IMR 4756 and others) back then with the excuse that IMR was going to concentrate on rifle powders. I think that Chris sort of punts on with his answer.

 

[LiveLife]

https://www.hodgdon.com//wp-content/uploads/2017/01/burnratecolor.pdf

7 Alliant Red Dot
8 Alliant Promo
9 Hodgdon CLAYS
10 IMR Co IMR RED
12 Hodgdon Hi-Skor 700-X
13 Alliant Bullseye
14 IMR Co IMR TARGET
15 Hodgdon TITEGROUP
16 Alliant American Select
17 Accurate Arms Solo 1000
18 Alliant Green Dot
19 IMR Co IMR GREEN

Hodgdon listed Target between Bullseye and Titegroup while listing Red between Red Dot/Promo and Bullseye.

Red Dot/Promo are my current powders I use for general purpose 9mm/45ACP plinking loads but so far, there are no published load data from Hodgdon for Red and 9mm. On my next range trip, I will do some 9mm/45ACP testing with Red along with Red Dot/Promo loads with full disclaimers for 9mm loads.

 

[LiveLife]

I am getting ready to test IMR Red in the next few days in 45ACP as Hodgdon currently does not list IMR Red for 9mm (But I plan to test IMR Red in 9mm with full disclaimer).

For the next range test, planning to load 115/124 gr bullets with 4.2-4.3 gr of IMR Target but will be comparing different OALs to check for accuracy trends:

- 115 gr FMJ/Hardcore Match RN - 1.130" vs 1.150"
- 124 gr Hardcore Match RN - 1.145" vs 1.160"

I am also planning to test Vectan Ba 9.5 and Ba 9 powders.

 

[Walkalong]

One of these days I'll load the .357 cases I have ready with Target and 158 Gr X-Treme SWCs (looking for 750ish FPS) and see if it can equal or beat WST for accuracy and Powder Forward performance. WST is one of the best for not losing so much velocity PF with this type load.