In Your Opinion, What Is The Best Bullpup Shotgun?

[Capybara]

What do you think is the best bullpup shotgun on the market? And why? Do you own the one you are posting about? To set some parameters, this will not be my HD shotgun, my life won't depend on it cycling and feeding correctly or not breaking. I have a Beretta 1301 Tactical that is fulfilling that role.That said, I find shotguns or really any firearm that is a jam o matic to be really annoying to deal with and shoot. Even as a range toy. The bullpup shotguns just seem very interesting to me, how are designed and function and I find for a range toy, the ability to load as many as 22 + 1 mini shells into the M&P 12 is really pretty cool (if I can find any mini shells to buy!), but even besides that, 15 rounds of regular shells is still pretty cool.

I handled the Tavor TS-12 at my LGC yesterday. I like the fit and finish, how it shoulders and I know that IWI makes very reliable guns. Most reviewers/testers are saying you have to do a lot of testing and research to find the shells that feed reliably, which I don't like. They must be 1 1/8 Oz loads at least 1200 fps so likely no low recoil loads will cycle and many cheaper brands either. Like most of us at the range, I would rather shoot low brass birdshot, but the Tavor ain't going to handle that probably. I hate getting FTFs and FTEs.

Also checked out the KelTecs, the Ks7 and the KSG they had in stock. They seem cool and interesting but I've heard both are pretty recoil heavy which I can handle but high recoil is fatiguing and terrible for when I have friends and family shoot them. Also have heard not flattering things about KelTec reliability.

I am leaning toward the Smith & Wesson M&P 12, but I've never even seen one or handled one in real life. My dealer said Smith is shipping him exactly one so I might get to handle it but then I'll have to immediately make a decision to buy or not to buy it as it will be gone, the first three he received were sold quickly. If the M&P 12 was a semi auto, that would appeal more to me but I can live with a pump. I kind of feel that this gun is so unusual looking that it may one day become somewhat of a collector item, not that that matters, but I have multiple M&P pistols and revolvers, I really love their products in general so the M&P 12 appeals from a brand perspective.

What do you think?

 

[Mn Fats]

The Kel-Tec KSG I fired was flawless. My neighbor bought one after seeing one of the John Wick movies. The plastic felt a little flimsy but it ran fine with no ftf or fte. He was sure happy with it. That was the first time I fired a shotgun with a red dot, very fun.

That's the only bullpup I've ever shot so I can't claim much. Other than I'd still rather have a full length shotgun.

 

[entropy]

The original; High Standard model 10.
For pump, The KS7-not the KSG.

 

[Capybara]

Thanks for the feedback gents. Anyone out here have the Tavor TS-12 and or the M&P 12? Any feedback on those two? I'm pretty narrowed down between the two of them. I prefer a semi-auto but I think the M&P 12 will have zero ammo issues whereas I know
going in with the Tavor that I'm going to have mess with, experiment and get frustrated finding "the" ammo that will reliably feed.

I also like the fact that M&P can handle the mini shells, which may actually catch on, especially for HD where having the highest fps, penetration, recoil, noise and concussion are all detriments rather than positives. Not sure if they'll catch on and become affordable and more available but if they do, the M&P is ready for them whereas the Tavor, not so much.

 

[LonewolfMcquade]

I want the IWI TS12! Only IWI bullpup I DONT have lol. From what i read, the IWI is only finicky about ammo till broken in (150-200 rounds).

 

[Capybara]

I want the IWI TS12! Only IWI bullpup I DONT have lol. From what i read, the IWI is only finicky about ammo till broken in (150-200 rounds).

I've read and heard a lot of contradictory opinions and experiences with the TS-12 about ammo. Some have said you have to to find the one load it is reliable with and stick to it.
Easier said than done in 2022 since we are still in an ammo shortage. I just don't have the time or patience to deal with a finicky feeding gun so I ordered the M&P 12. From the reports
I've seen, that gun will feed anything well. I'll report back when I have it in hand and can get to the range to break it in. Trying to decide on a good green dot sight and riser for it, sling setup, etc.

 

[8Ball_99]

I'm sure you know but the m&p 12 had a safety recall for barrels cracking. I guess they have it worked out now. If you get one, you just want to make sure it's not effected by the recall. FWIW I have a KS7 and I absolutely love it. I've had zero problems with it. I don't care for the KSG as the whole reason I wanted a pullpup was for it to be compact. It's as thin and holds as many shells as an 18" 590, but is more then a foot shorter with the same barrel length. As far as recoil any pump shot gun is going to have the same recoil with the same shells. The only difference is a heavier gun will reduce the felt recoil. If you want a pump or a break action shot gun with less recoil then you have to buy a heavy one. A Ks7 will kick more then say a 590, but that's because it is over a pound lighter.

 

[Capybara]

I'm sure you know but the m&p 12 had a safety recall for barrels cracking. I guess they have it worked out now. If you get one, you just want to make sure it's not effected by the recall. FWIW I have a KS7 and I absolutely love it. I've had zero problems with it. I don't care for the KSG as the whole reason I wanted a pullpup was for it to be compact. It's as thin and holds as many shells as an 18" 590, but is more then a foot shorter with the same barrel length. As far as recoil any pump shot gun is going to have the same recoil with the same shells. The only difference is a heavier gun will reduce the felt recoil. If you want a pump or a break action shot gun with less recoil then you have to buy a heavy one. A Ks7 will kick more then say a 590, but that's because it is over a pound lighter.
View attachment 1061307

Yes, fully aware of the recall. I don't have the serial number or date of manufacture yet but if it's an Oct 2021 mfg or older, Smith service, in my experience, is very good about quick turnaround, I'm not worried.

Thanks for the pic, I handled the KS7 at my LGC, I liked how it felt in hand and how it shouldered. I've never owned a KelTec product, I have heard varying stories about long term reliability, some KelTec owners love them and they run flawlessly, but a few friends I know have owned various KelTec guns and compare them to owning an Italian car, fun to drive but always in the shop.I also hear that the the KS7 is so lightweight, that perceived recoil is pretty healthy, what are your thoughts on that? The M&P 12 weighs like 3lbs more than the KS7, I have read that the perceived recoil on the M&P is
quite mild, although not as mild as the Tavor. I'm used to shooting hundreds of rounds through my O/U trap and SC guns but I try to shoot low recoil Target loads most of the time too so we'll see. I don't flinch with heavy recoil but it definitely does wear me out more on a long shooting session of a few hundred rounds. I have little interest in shooting slugs, I've been trying to hunt down some #4 buck loads for HD but they have been nearly impossible to find the past years.

I'm very interested to try the Federal, Aguila and Nobel mini shells put the prices and availability on all of them have just been ridiculous. If they ever gain a foothold and the costs come down where they should be on them, the M&P 12 with the mini shells sounds interesting for HD but as of now, they
are very hard to find in stock and when you can find them, something like $1.40 per round. I won't pay that, I reload and I can't see paying twice the cost of regular shells for 30-40% less powder and projectiles, that's just dumb.

 

[Domino]

I just picked up an FD12 made by the Hunt Group (imported by Black Aces) and I am really looking forward to shooting it. It is a semi-auto, mag fed, bullpup which I am not sure if that meets your needs or not since it can't shoot the mini shells. But you can get 5, 10, 15 or 20 round magazines for it to make up for that. I can't say for how it shoots yet but form all the reviews I have seen they seem to run flawlessly with high brass loads. Overall quality seems to be much better than my previous Turkish shotgun made by Haatsan (which was a piece of junk). This one uses steel for the bolt, barrel, and gas system. It has a high quality aluminum upper receiver and polymer lower. The fit and finish is also really good, I paid $430 for it on Atlantic Firearms.

 

[8Ball_99]

I've had mine a while. It's had a good amount of rounds through it. It's pretty simple design really. It's actually really easy to fully disassemble and re assemble. I've ran everything from slugs to bird shot. Probably more slugs then anything really. It cycles mini shells NP. But yeah prices right now are stupid. Luckily I had a pretty good stock of shells before covid hit. Around here though shells are easy to come by, they are just on the expensive side. #4 buck, 000 buck and mini shells all are on the shelf at my LGS. I'm not buying any till I have too or prices come down some more.

As far as recoil. I don't find it to be unpleasant. But yeah it's 6lb 12gauge pump. You put some 3" high brass slugs or something you will know it. They do offer different butt pads for them if your not worried about keeping it as short as possible. I changed my recoil pad out for the thick one and I put a muzzle device on mine. The pad was to help with , well padding lol. The muzzle device was more to get the muzzle out a little further. The gun is really short and the business end was a bit close to my support hand.

 

[WestKentucky]

The technology is finally getting to a point where the guns are interesting. For a long time the guns all seemed to be a model XYZ in a different stock with some weird linkage to make everything work out. New models are more “from the ground up” designs where they started off wanting a bull pup rather than starting with an 870 express and trying to force it to work.

My experience has been that tube feeders are more balanced and more user friendly. Box mag feeders get so tail heavy that they are awkward with anything more than about 10 rounds

 

[dfariswheel]

For a pump bullpup, I think the Kel-Tec KS7 is the way to go.
It's a much simpler design then the KSG, the Kel-Tec engineers learned a lot with the KSG and put that experience into the KS7.
The KS7 dispenses with the complicated double magazine feed system and the gun is totally reliable and smoother operating right out of the box.

The light weight recoil issue can be addressed by installing better recoil pads and using reduced recoil shells.
Doing an educated "fluff & buff" job on the KS7 smooths it to the point where short stoking problems are pretty much eliminated.
I posted a tutorial on this on the Kel-Tec forum...........

https://www.thektog.org/threads/fluffing-and-buffing-the-kel-tec-ks7-shotgun.275205/#post-2519875

If you don't like the KS7 carry handle/sight, Kel-Tec sell a conversion kit to put the KSG Pickatinny rail on the KS7 and you can then mount any kind of sight.

"Most" of the Kel-Tec shotguns will shoot the mini shells reliably, BUT NOT ALL OF THEM.
The only test for reliability with the mini shells is to actually shoot enough of them that you're satisfied they work 100% of the time.
Most of the other brands of bullpup guns also suffer from possible reliability problems with mini shells.

Another option for a pump bullpup is the Bullpup Unlimited conversion kit that converts a Remington 870 or Mossberg 500 series to a bullpup, and allows it to be converted back again with no alterations to the gun.
This isn't as smooth as a Kel-Tec, and to do a full cleaning of the gun requires full disassembly, with the risk of stripping an assembly screw nut that can't be replaced since these are molded into the plastic.
However, if you already own a shotgun you can get into a bullpup cheap and still use most accessories like magazine extensions.

In the past Kel-Tec has had the reputation of making innovative gun designs that had quality problems.
With the shotguns and the new rifles and pistols they seem to be making a push to improve the quality.
In the case of the KS7 they've succeeded.

My KSG was 100% and the new owner has it regularly perking along with no problems.
My KS7 has never failed, nor do I have any question it may.

 

[Domino]

A semi auto, tube fed bullpup similar to the KS-7 would be perfect. Kinda like a modern High Standard 10b without that weird buttstock. Too bad no one makes something like that yet. I plan to stick with the 5 and 10 rounders for my bullpup since that is more than enough for most situations. I do have a 15 round drum but that is mostly for range fun. I don't think I would trust any of the drum mags for anything serious.

 

[Sistema1927]

I own exactly two Keltec products. A first generation P32, and a KS7.

Both of them took trips back to the "mother ship" for initial problems, where KT paid the shipping both ways and replaced some parts in each. Since then, both of them have been 100%. So, based on my experience, KT makes you the beta tester, but they do eventually make things right.

My KS7 is very handy. I replaced the carry handle with the KSG rail, and put a red dot and BUIS on it.

 

[Capybara]

I just picked up an FD12 made by the Hunt Group (imported by Black Aces) and I am really looking forward to shooting it. It is a semi-auto, mag fed, bullpup which I am not sure if that meets your needs or not since it can't shoot the mini shells. But you can get 5, 10, 15 or 20 round magazines for it to make up for that. I can't say for how it shoots yet but form all the reviews I have seen they seem to run flawlessly with high brass loads. Overall quality seems to be much better than my previous Turkish shotgun made by Haatsan (which was a piece of junk). This one uses steel for the bolt, barrel, and gas system. It has a high quality aluminum upper receiver and polymer lower. The fit and finish is also really good, I paid $430 for it on Atlantic Firearms.
View attachment 1061432

A friend of mine just bought one of these, but he too hasn't shot it yet. Atlantic has had some killer sales prices on these lately!

 

[Capybara]

I find the Ks7 intriguing, I may pick on up sometime just because I find shooting shotgun, in a way, more fun than shooting rifles. It may be that I enjoy shooting moving targets,
ringing steel like I mean it and exploding liters of soda and melons more fun than making little holes in paper? We'll see how this M&P 12 works out, I got it at such a good price, I could sell it if I didn't like
it and still break even or make a profit. I am still interested in the Tavor TS12 and the KelTec Ks7 too! We shall see, it's a bullpup shotgun journey.

 

[Kreadon]

I own a ksg and a m&p12 and surprisingly the ksg is superior in both fit and function. My ksg is tight feels solid and cycles everything I've put through it flawlessly from the box. My m&p12 on the other hand is a flimsy cheap feeling rattle trap. The mag selector feels like it would serve a nerf gun better and there is so much play in the forend it feels like it's gonna snap off everytime it's racked. Not to mention the bolt carrier locking up on the second round so bad that it needed to be disassembled(another pita process) to clear the round. Dont get me wrong, I'm not a fanboy of any manufacturer. I own something from pretty much every reputable manufacturer and I really wanted to like the m&p (I do like the option to use chokes and the load assist/mag dump button was well thought out) but it's just to "nerfy" for a serious firearm and in an oh **** moment the ksg would be my go to.

 

[earlthegoat2]

The one not in my possession.