Incipient Case Head Separation

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How did you measure the brass ? with what, also did you measure from shoulder to case head ? I read over post I couldn't find the info sorry if I missed it.

Speaking of 260 brass I have a couple hundred rem cases, and around 1k speer nickle plated (not sure who manufactured them) no problems from any of it. I formed some 260 rem from 308, but not worth time, effort or aggravation. I can understand the frustration of purchasing components, I purchased this brass years ago when 50 rem 260 brass was around $20. I should have bought stock (read brass) then and put every extra dime I had into rifle brass, I could by me a steak or two with the money made LOL
 
Clint M said:
How did you measure the brass ? with what, also did you measure from shoulder to case head ? I read over post I couldn't find the info sorry if I missed it.

I used a Sinclair bump gage caliper insert (measures off of the case shoulder datum line).
 
I took some brass measurements tonight (detailed below). The short version is that it looks like I have an average difference of 0.0086 inches between the 5x fired cases that showed signs of incipient separation and some cases from the same lot of brass that were fired 4 times and had just been full length resized.
So you're comparing sized cases and unsized, fired cases, right?
For bolt guns, you can partial resize to 2-3 mils under fired case length, if you're having such issues. Nine mils doesn't sound too excessive; I wouldn't bother taking the gun to a smith. But you can tighten up your reloads quite a bit.
 
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1) How do I increase brass life to avoid encountering this problem for a few extra loadings in the future?

I earned my Distinguished with an M1a. The M1a and Garand are extremely hard on brass. Experienced shooters recommended to me that I only take a case four or five reloads, which is about 5 to 6 firings, and discard the cases. I would be shown their cases, I would take them home, section them, and find that their cases had severe case head stretch.

That is until I met a Distinguished HM who was shooting lubricated cases in his M1a. He left the RCBS case lube on his cases, never tumbled or cleaned them, and he said he could take a set of brass all shooting season. Like others I had read Hatcher’s Notebook and it warnings about greased bullets and of course heard all the doom about oil/grease on cases but here was something that was clearly working out differently from the predictions of the authority figures. In time I determined that the Distinguished HM was 100% correct, and the greased bullet warnings were not only baseless, it was an Army cover up for the defects of the 1,000,000 low number Springfields built in Army Arsenals.

Cost is an important consideration to me. There are those to whom case life and case cost are irrelevant, but few people got to retire with footlockers of free military brass. I have noticed that new “bargain” 308 Win is priced $22.00 for twenty rounds, so brass has become even more expensive over the years. While I cannot speak for others, but for me, saving money is important: the cost of replacing cases after five firings is significant, especially if you are shooting an M1a for years to earn the Distinguished Rifleman’s Badge . Being able to take a set of brass 10 or even 20 times results in considerable cost savings over the alternative of tossing the brass after five firings.

Brass life in a bolt rifle can be orders of magnitude higher than what a gas gunner can expect. Bolt rifles are easy on brass, less scratches and dents, and the brass is not stretched on extraction because the bolt is opened after chamber pressure is zero. When bolt gunners do get case head separations it is due to setting the shoulder too far back on sizing. Cases are really meant to stretch once, on the average, 0.005”. If cases stretch more than that depending on a number of variables, brass hardness being a primary factor, cases will break due to case head separation. These are cases fired in my M1a and fired as lubricated rounds. I either left the RCBS case lube on them and primed them that way, or I put on Johnson paste wax on the loaded cases with my fingers. I don’t like the feel of greasy cases and if I had time between matches I would wash the cases to remove the RCBS lube and then apply paste wax. . If I did not have time I fired the cases just as they came out of the die, minus whatever lube that was lost in handling. I never had a primer dud. I ran a number of experiments with various lubes; leaving thick coatings of grease is objectionable as grease particles are in the air after firing. I had 1000 rounds of CAVIM and I fired most of them in a FAL. FAL’s are very hard on brass and I experimented with stick wax. This is a tenuous grease used to lubricate saw teeth. I dropped lumps of stick wax in a bag with handfuls of CAVIM and shook vigorously. Both case and bullets were unevenly coated with globs of stick wax. When I fired this stuff it was as if a grease bomb went off: the mechanism and myself became coated in stick wax. My shooting glasses had to be frequently cleaned, my hands were greasy, my clothes were greasy, overall, it was messy. Later I spent hours wiping the cases to reduce the amount of stick wax.

So, I prefer thin coatings and after all the handling that occurs after sizing, after trimming, after priming, after dumping the powder and seating the bullet, the amount of RCBS case lube left does not leave objectionable residue in the mechanism or eyeglasses.

At Camp Perry in cold weather I had bolt over rides with some of my Johnson paste waxed rounds. This ended when I polished the rounds. Pervious to that I shot the rounds with swirls and gobs of paste wax but evidentially that caused sluggish round rise in the magazine in cold weather. From then on I polished my rapid fire rounds and have never had a bolt close on an empty chamber even in rapid fires sequences in snow.

I have tried various lubes, paste wax takes the most time to apply but is the most satisfactory for handling. Paste wax dries hard, it is easy to wipe off dirt if you drop a round, and it is cheap.

I tried wire pulling wax, bought a bottle at Home Depot, works but not as hard as paste wax.

http://www.shop3m.com/wire-pulling-lubricant-wax.html

Sometimes I left Kiwi Mink Oil on the cases.

The picture below are of sectioned cases, R stands for reloaded, R5 five times reloaded, etc, all of these cases the shoulder was set back about 0.003” and the cases fired in my M1a. I do not visually see any evidence of case wall thinning from those cases reloaded 5 times (6 times fired) , R18, or R22. As long as the case is not excessively stretched during firing or extraction, there is no reason for the sidewalls to thin.

The FAL cases are from a Bud’s rifle. I think they were separating after 2 or 3 three firings, FAL’s are hard on brass.

DSCN1978CasesbesidesFNcases.jpg

DSCN1978CasesbesidesFNcases.jpg

DSCN1969CasesR5toR18.jpg

DSCN1973CasesR18toR22.jpg

DSCN1967.jpg

DSCN1979Historyofreloads.jpg


My basic conclusion is that if the brass does not failure through case neck cracks, body splits, and you have not stretched them so they develop case head separations, you can load them until the primer pockets get too large , which is why I stopped reloading these cases.

I found that I needed to periodically ream the primer pockets: the pockets became shallow. Don’t know why unless the primer pocket collapses over time. As incidental contact with the primer can cause a slamfire or an out of battery slamfire, keeping the primer below the case head is a safety critical issue.


I believe that lubricated cases will produce more consistent accuracy than dry cases. Chambers foul and they foul unevenly. I am of the opinion that irregular binding occurs when cases adhere to the chamber. I am also of the opinion that all semi automatic mechanisms function smoother if there is no case to chamber friction. As case friction changes as the chamber fouls bolt load changes, unlock velocities change, and this may have an effect on the dynamics of the weapon. Lubricated cases evenly transfer the thrust to the locking mechanism. HK used to make a statement to the effect on their web page for their roller bolt rifles. While the M1a has been developed to a accurate service rifle, I believe any inaccuracy due to case friction is in the noise level for this mechanism.

I can say I earned my Distinguished and won a regional gold with lubricated cases in the M1A, so my accuracy and function with lubricated cases was more than acceptable.
 
Good reply you have the tools to set up your full length die along with some info I think you will be a happy camper.

It's hard to tell where exactly your headspace is, one firing will not do it due to spring back. I would start with the brass fired 5 times at 1.570" record this as your chambers headspace, full length size your brass to 1.567"-1.568" and make sure it chambers easy.

I don't want to run this thread sideways as you are getting to the exact problem also you should now know exactly what to do to fix it. Along with this use a good sizing lube Imperial sizing die wax, Hornady Unique, my favorite is Royoal case & die lube. All of these are fine to work with a big step above most sizing lubes, you will get more consistent results full length sizing with a good sizing lube, also lots easier to work the handle !! Please post results back I wouldn't doubt you could double number of firings on brass before any problems.. just keep a check on them.
 
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I found that I needed to periodically ream the primer pockets: the pockets became shallow. Don’t know why unless the primer pocket collapses over time.
We ran fairly hot loads in Benchrest and I used a primer pocket uniformer on the primer pocket after every firing. Even though I used it on freshly prepped cases, it would always take out some more brass after every firing.

I did not keep track of times fired, but it was a lot for each case before I would have a failure like a neck split or loose primer pocket. I would take a batch of 15 to 20 cases and shoot them match after match, for a minimum of 120 rounds (1 fouling shot and 5 on the record target for four "guns" (Light, heavy, 100 & 200 etc)), plus sighters, for every match. They never had any sign of separation, but then they never had a chance to stretch much, as they were such a tight fit to the chamber.

I have used .223 test cases in an AR over and over until they suffer from loose primer pockets and never a sign of separation.

Case head separations don't have to happen as a routine.
 
I have used .223 test cases in an AR over and over until they suffer from loose primer pockets and never a sign of separation.

Case head separations don't have to happen as a routine.

I have lubed my long range 223 cases, primarily believing that even loading of the mechanism, which I can achieve through case lubrication, is conducive to accuracy. This is something that would be hard to prove as I shoot HM scores in the rapids out to 300 yards, and I am not lubing those cases. I have so many 223 cases that even were I to get only five reloads out the things, it will be several lifetimes before I get through them all. I picked up lots of brass from the Marine Corp Team and the AMU at Camp Perry. Those guys shoot once and don't reload once fired brass.

Still, 223 cases will separate, but the case separation is a little higher on the case, has to do with pressure curve, case taper, and case relaxation. When a case separates in a 223 semi auto, you don't notice till the next round jams.

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That's intriguing information SlamFire, I enjoyed reading your post.

Thanks. Lubing and firing lubed cases really goes against conventional wisdom, but, sometimes conventional wisdom is all bunk. In this particular matter, conventional wisdom is based on Army nonsense.

I like this author's definition of BS versus Nonsense.

How to Speak Money, Lanchester

https://books.google.com/books?id=C...sts of things that are actively false&f=false

Pg 86 bull**** versus nonsense

Nonsense is different: it’s worse. It consists of things that are actively false, and at its worst, of things that are just not true but can’t possibly be true. It is rarer than bull**** but much more toxic, and it is the difference between someone exaggerating a bit because he is trying to sell you something and someone who is consciously lying to you, or who is so far out of touch with reality that he does not know he’s lying.
 
I have also reused cases until primer pockets get loose, with say Lapua, LC that can be up to 20 firings on a 223 rem case with minimal sizing (bumping shoulder back .001". I have found when full length sizing brass .002"-.003" you get some where around 10 firings from that case, to me I can't justify much more tinkering than easily setting up a $34 set of store bought dies, size brass .002"-.003" which should fit easily in chamber getting 10 loads from the brass makes case cost really low even with Lapua.
 
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