Incorporating Speed

[Good Ol' Boy]

I am at a point where I feel like my slowER shooting has gotten good enough to where I should be starting to incorporate more speed.

So far, most of my "rapid fire" practice has been at like 15-20ft on B27's, where I feel trigger control is less of an issue in getting decent hits on target. But when stepping out past 10yds and trying rapid shooting it seems my basic fundamentals fall apart.

I shot a 1x2ft steel plate today at 100yds with my full size pistol. First time even attempting anything past 30ish yards. But when stepping back in to 10 and 25 yard plates that I can drill slow fire, and attempting double taps and fast fire, my technique seems to fall apart.


So, any advice on working speed in would be appreciated.

 

[Chuck R.]

There are several decent drills for working speed, I like Bill Drills run on either 8" steel plates or 8" IDPA targets. 6 shots as fast as you can stay on the target. Run enough of them and you'll get your cadence down.

Use a timer! Look at your stance, grip (thumbs FWD and "crush" or firmness) & trigger manipulation (shooting to reset). Dryfiring helps the draw stroke, but when it comes to improving splits and target transitions it's live fire that helps the most. I prefer to shoot steel when it comes to working speed due the sound and visual feedback. One drill I like working is a modified El Presidente run on staggered 8" plates:



I find that by staggering the depth, it gets me used to how "hard" I have to hold by distance to get my hits. I normally start the closest plate at 5 yards.

Bottom line is the only way to get faster is to work at it.

Chuck

 

[JeffG]

Rehearse your draw stroke with an empty gun. Dry fire. When you move the gun, to the target, punch it out rather than swing the gun up. At that distance you will need to see your sights. Remember where your sights were when the shot broke.
Trying to "grab" the target with a fast trigger press, will put too much hand action on the gun and will result in a miss. Not the only technique, but it works for me. Good shooting.

 

[Varminterror]

There are lots of drills you can do to increase what I call, "accuracy at full speed." As a rule of thumb, you'll never achieve "speed at full accuracy," meaning to shoot your maximal potential accuracy but very fast. For most of us, accuracy at full speed is the real measurement - anyone can deliver "defensive accuracy" slowly, and anyone can shoot fast, but not everyone can keep rounds on target at full speed. Not many of us ever have a practical need to increase our true cyclic rate, outside of competition.

I use multiple drills for improving my transition accuracy and reducing my shot to shot splits on target:

• I work multiples on one target, ensuring front sight re-acquisition and sight picture re-acquisition. This is full speed, and as I improve, my target gets smaller, or farther away. Developing a strong double tap technique, then triple tap, then 4 and beyond might seem like a waste of ammo
• Side by side transitions - back and forth on two targets forces a directional change. I sometimes set up 5-8 targets, using some of the targets in the middle as a "don't cover," so my muzzle can't flare over the target and must change directions above or below it to get to the next target.
• "Don't shoot" targets in the middle of your array, which you either have to dodge/not cover, or at least pass over will help break up your rhythm so you don't just get into a groove of bang, bang, bang, bang... A little intermittent break helps ensure you can vary your pace and take only the appropriate shots - spacing your targets irregularly will also help with this.
• Practicing your draw, or coming onto target from low ready is also an advantage - it forces you to practice sight acquisition and sight picture establishment while you're also working on your draw stroke. Any time you're acquiring the sight then the sight picture, you're adding speed to your accuracy. I force myself into this drill by loading a dozen mags with one round each, draw and fire. After that drill, I'll load each mag with two or 3 rounds each, and go one shot per target. Forcing yourself into breaking up your strings will help develop your ability to get into rhythm.
• Laser Dry Fire Training aids like LASR software are well worth the investment. I have a couple SIRT pistols, LaserLyte laser cartridges, and LaserAmmo cartridges (and one LaserAmmo Glock reset trigger), combining those with a software package means I can "shoot" a few thousand rounds a week and work on my transitions, without the expense of ammo, relying upon daylight hours, or traveling out to the backyard range. I have a webcam in my home office with targets on the wall and a SIRT pistol on my desk all day - I can practice target transitions between emails. My wife practices in the evening after supper while I'm washing dishes.
• Drills which work on your mental presence during a string are good too. Most require a partner - have them call out numbers, or a color, etc, then you turn around, pick up the pistol, and engage the number(s) or color(s). If you have a long bank of targets, a partner can call odds or evens, or thirds, then you shoot every other one, or every third, starting with the odd or even target.
• Occasionally, use a timer to ensure you DON'T shoot fast. Most of us work on our draw strokes at a certain speed and work FASTER, but occasionally that will allow poor movements to sneak in (economy of motion). I saw a Pat Mac video several years ago in which he was working draw stroke mechanics with the goal of being OVER 3 seconds from beep to bang. It was difficult for him to move that slowly, but even for him, he caught himself bowling just a little, which he could fix. His goal - if you played his full speed draw in slow motion, or his slow speed draw in fast forward, they'd look identical.

As they say - slow is smooth and smooth is fast. Work on economy of motion, and don't focus too much on centering your hits - a hit on target is a hit on target, once the sight is on the target, break the shot (targets should be small enough to represent center mass hits, not torso hits).

 

[beatcop]

Depends on your goals.

Double taps are for room distances, not much farther unless you're really get good. Try rapping off a double tap with the front sight taped over and target at 10 feet. You may find that certain drills have more emphasis on rhythm, timing and coordination. Try an isosceles stance with your head tucked aka turret style for best results.

I support aimed fire...some form of flash sight picture the majority of times, but there's no substitute for shooting rounds down range and getting the feel of rapid fire down.

Get a shot timer and start with draw and fire singles, drawn and fire double tap to body, move to 2 body/one head, put two silhouettes up next and work on the same drills with two targets. Par times? 2 tenths between shots on a double tap...working lower if you have a short trigger like a 1911. Draw and fire on a single target in 1.5 seconds.

 

[Good Ol' Boy]

Good advice all of you.

Here is a paper from today. Not rapid fire or double or triple taps, but a cadence like counting 1,2,3,4 so probably a second or so between shots. Distance was 35ft and 5 shots at a time. Aside from the one flyer I'm happy with the groups. But if I try double taps or more rapid fire at that distance things get a lot more spread out.







I'll have to try some of the suggestions mentioned...

 

[beatcop]

We can talk all day, go to a local club and do a little competing.

 

[Good Ol' Boy]

We can talk all day, go to a local club and do a little competing.

So are you saying that jumping into competition will bring out the best in me?

The range I'm a member of has IDPA matches but I've been hesitant given my skill. I don't really think I'm ready for that yet although it seems like it would be fun.

 

[Fine Figure of a Man]

So are you saying that jumping into competition will bring out the best in me?

The range I'm a member of has IDPA matches but I've been hesitant given my skill. I don't really think I'm ready for that yet although it seems like it would be fun.

If it sound like fun do it.

 

[Chuck R.]

So are you saying that jumping into competition will bring out the best in me?

The range I'm a member of has IDPA matches but I've been hesitant given my skill. I don't really think I'm ready for that yet although it seems like it would be fun.

IF nothing else the competitions will to some extent "push you" to better yourself. They'll also put you out of your comfort zone to some extent as you'll have to do things you don't normally.

For instance at last Saturdays IDPA match, one stage had 3 targets with centered hostage all shot (-hostage) while sitting, the next 4 targets were all shot from behind cover, there was no way to take up either a true weaver or isosceles stance. The next stage included shooting 2 targets while retreating, hitting a steel plate which activated a swinger, then moving o a window and engaging 2 more targets (again no perfect stance), moving laterally across the room to engage 2 more targets from behind cover. Both stages required a reload at sometime.

Do not worry about your current abilities, the only requirement is to be safe. Most clubs have a mandatory orientation to go over the rules and checkout your draw and gunhandling. Ours has about a 100 rd live fire portion.

So yea, "jump into it"!

Chuck

 

[Varminterror]

As a coach, and especially a firearms instructor, I've never liked the mantra of "jump into the deep end to learn to swim." I never could swim until my 30's, when I decided to pursue the foolish undertaking of a half-ironman triathlon.

Yes, I could jump into the deep end, and doing so proved that I knew how to "not drown," but you could not say jumping in, "taught me how to swim."

It did teach me how poorly I swam compared to my friends. And proved I certainly couldn't tackle a 1.2 mile swim for a triathlon.

So instead of just entering a half-Ironman and "jumping in," I recognized my weakness, sought out an instructor, and practiced different technical drills. I'm still not fast in the water, or even very efficient, but I can finish a 3mile swim today. NOW I know how to swim. When I jumped into the deep end as a kid, I only knew how to not drown.

What entering a competition will do for you, which is highly valuable, is give ou exposure to a lot of other shooters, where you can pick up tips and tricks to improve your shooting. I joined a master's class to learn to swim. But the competition itself won't offer you any improvement to your technique, other than giving you a platform to push to test your limits.

 

[strambo]

If you can safely draw and handle your firearm under the mild stress of other people watching, I see no reason not to try the local IDPA match. Speed won't matter, just go at your own pace and focus on accuracy.

 

[Good Ol' Boy]

If you can safely draw and handle your firearm under the mild stress of other people watching, I see no reason not to try the local IDPA match. Speed won't matter, just go at your own pace and focus on accuracy.

I was under the impression IDPA was all about time? Or are you saying just try it to do something new in that the event itself will lend itself to better rapid accuracy eventually?

I might look into this further....

 

[strambo]

IDPA is about the total time with time added for misses, so combined time after the miss penalties.

You absolutely need a shot timer to work on speed. You can also do cadence drills, your shots should be consistent, not like a monkey on a typewriter.

You could shoot a 5 shot drill getting progressively faster and counting. Start at 1 second per shot counting out loud "one-one-thousand-two-one-thousand". Then about 2/3 sec per shot "one-and-two-and...". Then about 1/2 second per shot "1,2,3,4,5" Finally shoot for 1/4 sec. per shot, say 12345 fast shooting each time. I shamelessly stole that drill from Travis Haley and I think it's part of the "Venti 100" drill you can look up on youtube.

 

[beatcop]

Some kind of competition allows you to place your skills on an established scale.

When you shoot qualifiers (standard course of fire) the score is there to compare against others in a standardized format. There's no, "That looked fast". You have accuracy and speed measured up and can compare it to others.

Just do it, you will also be able to watch smooth/fast guys and pick up tips that would take hundreds of rounds to figure out. I started with a once a month shoot, where folks firing all classes of pistol competed against each other. I went from getting my doors blown off with a single stack 1911 in a CC holster to placing in the top 3 or winning stages with a hicap glock. You just put it in perspective, if a guy with a .38 super w/comp beats you, oh well. You will rise to the occasion.

The pressure of competition builds you up.

 

[Good Ol' Boy]

I appreciate the responses. I'm going to talk with someone at the range when I go again in a few days and see what all I need to do to get started.

At worst I guess I'll feel like a chump for a bit, but hopefully that will work itself out.

 

[shafter]

Good advice all of you.

Here is a paper from today. Not rapid fire or double or triple taps, but a cadence like counting 1,2,3,4 so probably a second or so between shots. Distance was 35ft and 5 shots at a time. Aside from the one flyer I'm happy with the groups. But if I try double taps or more rapid fire at that distance things get a lot more spread out.







I'll have to try some of the suggestions mentioned...

That group is just fine for combat accuracy. Honestly for combat shooting if your groups are much tighter than that you will be taking your time too much.

 

[beatcop]

We all started somewhere...get a holster and mag pouch and read the rule books prior to going for a little insight.
Trust me, you probably won't place last.

 

[mokin]

Good advice all of you.

Here is a paper from today. Not rapid fire or double or triple taps, but a cadence like counting 1,2,3,4 so probably a second or so between shots. Distance was 35ft and 5 shots at a time. Aside from the one flyer I'm happy with the groups. But if I try double taps or more rapid fire at that distance things get a lot more spread out.







I'll have to try some of the suggestions mentioned...

That looks pretty good to me.

I'm with those who encourage you to buy a shot timer and do a little competition. That way you can try to speed up on your time and try to slow down in the matches.

 

[Fine Figure of a Man]

If you have a smart phone Surefire Shot Timer is a free app.
I haven't had it long but it seems to work fine so far.

 

[Good Ol' Boy]

I mentioned how my "rapid fire" was far more spread out. Well this is a target from this morning. I found out that my ranges target system has a edge/face timer so I ran some drills using that.

Starting from a low ready, 25ft, 4 seconds edge 2 seconds face in pairs of two, double tap then triple tap. These shots were as fast as I can shoot in short bursts. I have no idea what the "splits" were but in both the double and triple I was back to the low ready before the 2 second face target turned away. I don't think it's that impressive but I was going for all out speed, which I haven't practiced much.








I talked to the folks at my range today about IDPA and they have a match coming up but no one seemed to have any details on specifics. I'm also still a little confused on gear and rules in general. I've read the IDPA site but the videos on youtube seem to vary quite a bit as to what is allowed and how things are run. I hate the unknown and it would really suck to show up and find out I don't have XYZ "qualification" or my holster doesn't meet code.

 

[Chuck R.]

You can hit the IDPA website and find the match director, ask him if they conduct a shooters orientation. A lot of clubs have a mandatory orientation/train-up prior to letting someone compete due to liability reasons. Our clubs orientation is about 3 hrs long and has live fire portion before you can attend your 1st match.

Chuck

 

[bullseye308]

Once you figure out what you need I'd jump in and give it a try. I wouldn't worry about times or scores, just do your best and have fun. There will be lots of folks there that will probably be willing to offer advice and help you. Ask how you did and how they think you can improve and go from there.