Interesting causative factor in gun massacres

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beerslurpy

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Not surprisingly, it had nothing to do with guns or gun control.

Apparently Eli Lilly is being investigated by the FDA for knowing that serotonin reuptake inhibitors (prozac and siblings) cause psychotic behavior.

After doing a little digging, I found that Columbine, the Atlanta work shooting, Kip Kinkel, Jonesboro and Edinburo (sp?) school shootings were all performed by people under the influence of prozac or similar drugs at the time. Its amazing how everyone pounces on the gun angle of these killings without asking why they went crazy. I know if there was marijuana in their bloodstreams it would have been on the news for months.

I wont even touch the ritalin mess.
 
When I read the title of this thread, I immediately thought "Prozac". I'll bet it's involved in violence more than we know.
 
I cant wait to see whether the pharmaceuticals suffer more from stock devaluation or from the class action suits. Almost every pharma was involved in making ritalin and prozac copies.

Besides the money, this might end up having severe long term consequences for the drug industry, both in terms of public relations and regulatory pressure.

It will be funny watching the FDA justify keeping marijuana schedule 1 while PCP is schedule 2 and stuff that the pharmaceutical industry sells is readily available with a rubber stamp perscription. I wonder if all the recent corruption news surrounding the FDA will have any effect on Raich v Ashcroft.
 
drugs....

try something like 58-59,000 pages of documented research on this subject! i remember reading something about this a few years back. now, if its opened again, everyone'll say, "but i don' know noddink abou' dat!! dat happen' befor' i com' here!!!" pass the ol' buck, like the tobacco people, "no, it don' cause no stinkin' cancer!!!" five years later, " i have no recollection of that, senator dork, i wasn't involved in that."
 
The true question is whether or not these individuals would have comitted these acts without being on these drugs.

Or are they the next convenient "crutch" that is going to be used to try to explain why these events took place?
 
I read the reports too :eek:


I remember reading a whole bunch on the supposed new wonder meds for people suffereing from various forms of disorders.It was thrown with a bunch of hoopla and then quietly buried under a pile of files.I remember hearing cases which the script prozac actually increased the liklyhood of psychosis symptoms rather than treat it.It fell mostly on deaf ears back then because of the enormous wealth of the drug industry.


you ever listen to any of those new fangled meds thats advertised on the television? "some effects may include nausea,diarrea or lower abdominal pain" then the ad continues "though moderate to severe reactions..yadda yada blah blah blahh."I know it makes ME curious why its even available if it hasnt been FULLY tested.

its part of the reason why insurance is so high for doctors.its part of the problem,there is no miracle pill that works perfectly in every single case yet its still being done that way.hopefully,someone will wake up and smell the smoke and stop dumping unknowns on people as a miracle cure.

in hindsight,it would be an interesting debate if any of those tradgic events could have been prevented with the knowledge we have gained.

http://psychcentral.com/ check this site out.
 
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Not that Big Pharma is blameless, but like the War on Drugs, I think most of the problem lies on the demand side. The Companies are just filling a need (for the most part). It is our culture of instant gratification that is the heart of the problem (I don't have the time to eat right and exersize, gimme a pill!). In a different age a lot of people now on prescription drugs would have drank their problems away, instead of dealing with them, and finding causes and solutions. Now they pop a pill. Of course these sweeping statements don't apply to all situations, but it is my personal belief that drugs are used too often, when other measures would be better.

Craig
 
Beerslurpy (love that name!)

Can you post another link? The fine people at the NYT's want me to be a member to read their stuff and I am not.

I'm not sure how this is all going to turn out. However, I think in our ignorance of the past we think that we can fix everything. In the 1860's herion and other narcotics were the answer. Before that people always tried to "fix" the people who needed help. Some people can not be fixed and can not be made whole again.

If these drugs were bad I hope they are taken off the market and measures taken against them. Just don't want to see 5000 commercials by the parasite lawyers!
 
Just the beginning.

Wait until Ritalin is in the crosshairs. Then watch the schuck and jive start in the education industry when it really goes public that educrats have been drugging discipline problems in the class.

Another growth industry for our tort terrorists.
 
all performed by people under the influence of prozac or similar drugs at the time
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Correlation does not imply causation. That is the same logic behind proclaiming that you're more likely to die in a hospital. Well, I only go to the hospital if I'm in pretty bad shape. If I eat a bus stepping off a streetcorner, I'm not terribly likely to survive, and there's a decent probability I'll die in a hospital. Dying and being in a hospital correlate, but one is not causative of the other.

People with mental disorders may have a disease that causes them to act violently. People with mental disorders are treated with drugs. Does it occur to anybody that these murderers may have just been plain nutzo, and that the drug treatments failed, thus allowing their disease to surface in a violent way?

What about the fellas who shot John Lennon and President Reagan? They were obviously nutters, but were they on prozac?

Are these drugs prescribed too much? In my medically uneducated opinion, yes. Is there some kind of correlation between taking these drugs and committing a violent crime? Well, I think your research demonstrates that. Do we need more understanding of these substances before we go handing them out willy-nilly? Absolutely! Is one event the cause of the other? I see no evidence of that.
 
Funny you should mention Michael Moore. You would not guess what the subject of his next movie is. Last week the drug companies sent out warnings to all of their employees that if they see anyone looking like him they should avoid him and refuse to speak to him.

Just search google news for Eli Lilly Prozac FDA and you will get a ton of links. Sorry for posting a NYT link.
 
"Wait until Ritalin is in the crosshairs. Then watch the schuck and jive start in the education industry when it really goes public that educrats have been drugging discipline problems in the class."

Ritalin in itself is not the issue. When Ritalin is given to the right people in the
correct doses, the kids do very well. But as Waitone said, the wrong people
are giving the kids drugs. No one, including the parents, want to deal with
raising kids so they are drugged into being passive state of mind.

I've dealt with a person on Prozac. You can't just stop the drugs, you have
to ween them off of it. Once I had my girlfriend (now wife) off the prozac
and started to deal with some of the issues there was an amazing turn around.
Drugging her was not the solution. Dealing with the issue was answer. Her
Father agrees and likes the turn around as does most of her family. Her
mother thinks I'm wrong. But then, her mother believes that doctors are the
be all, end all to everything and that they can do no wrong.
 
"prozac actually increased the liklyhood of psychosis rather than treat it."

I'll have to check with my better half, but I'm 99.9% certain that Prozac is NOT used to treat psychosis, and in fact is contraindicated in treatment of this disorder.

Prozac is used to treat depression and obsessive compulsive disorders.
 
C'mon people, it's not the drugs. Everybody knows it's them dang video games that causes violent behavior. Sheesh :p
 
There was an analysis of the school shootings that indicate that many of the schools had rather hateful, bullying environments and the kids involved were unable to find escape from them. Thus, they snapped.

It's multicausal. Kip's parent bought him the gun because if they didn't, they thought he would just get one on the streets - Geez.
 
"Get with the program: Ritalin is socialism in action."

Whahuh?
 
Correlation does not imply causation. . . . these murderers may have just been plain nutzo, and that the drug treatments failed, thus allowing their disease to surface in a violent way . . .
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Interesting points. If one were to try ruling out kids being prescribed psychoactive drugs as the causative factor one might start by examining all the school shootings and juvenile mass murders that occured prior to the widespread introduction of these drugs into the school-age population.

Similarly, if gun availability were the main causative factor, it might be worthwhile to examine all the Columbine-style school killings that occured prior to enactment of GCA '68 . . . guns were freely available via mail order before that.
 
If one were to try ruling out kids being prescribed psychoactive drugs as the causative factor one might start by examining all the school shootings and juvenile mass murders that occured prior to the widespread introduction of these drugs into the school-age population
Click to expand...
Having lived long enough to remember the time "prior to the widespread introduction of these drugs into the school-age population", I don't think there were any juvenile mass murders then.
 
The school shootings weren't the only ones that were referenced.

I've done a little digging, and from what I can tell two of the biggest mass shootings -- the one at the Luby's in Texas and the one at the McDonald's in California -- were committed by individuals who had no Prozac or other antidepressants in their systems.
 
The idea that there is a single causative factor in school shootings seems simplistic.
All the school shooters have been white. Is being a school shooter caused by being white?
All the school shooters (save Miss "I don't like Mondays) have been male. Is being a school shooter caused by being male?

You don't suppose that there could be numerous factors, both societal and biological, at work, do you?


How many gun massacres have there been involving medicated perpetrators? How many people have been prescribed those drugs and not gone on shooting sprees?

Trying to pin the blame on prescribed psychoactive drugs is no different than trying to pin it on video games, movies, or rap music. That's just looking for an easy answer.
 
I am not sure this is a totally logical assumption.
As many here know, I work as a paramedic. I had a guy I work with say something like this: Did you ever notice how the vast majority of calls we go on where someone killed themselves, attempted to kill themselves, or made a suicide gesture were on Prozac ?
And I said, yeah, I have noticed that, but think about this: what kind of person does something like this ? Often times it is someone that has problems with depression or other mental problems. Who is perscribed Prozac ? People who have depression or other mental problems.
The same thing might apply here. What type of person might go crazy and commit mass murder ? Someone who is depressed or suffer from mental problems ? What type of person is perscribed Prozac ?
So, you might be onto something. Or you might not be onto something.


I guarentee that 100% of the people who comitted these crimes drank water.
 
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