Interesting classic matchup, British STEN Vs. Thompson Submachine gun...

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The Mafia Vs. Yakuza episode of the "Deadliest Warrior" series was rather interesting, specifically the British 9mm STEN (used by Yakuza) versus the Thompson .45ACP Submachine gun (used by Sicilian Mafia)

The two firearms could not have been more different, the STEN is a *laser*, precise, high velocity fire, the Tommy Gun is brute force personified, *massive* damage at the cost of a *little* accuracy....

No, I'm not saying which gun "won", don't want to get into another 9mm Vs. .45ACP debate, after all, they're both great firearms and either will do the job quite effectively

personally, I like the Tommy Gun, for many reasons *other* than the round used, if both guns were to fire the same caliber round, I'd still choose the Tommy Gun....
 
The Thompson does have lots of firepower, can be fitted with a large drum and has nice handles, but it also has a few downfalls. The sheer number of small parts inside it is a concern, since if one goes, it takes much more work to repair and fabricate new parts. The other is the weight. It is 10.8 ibs of solid steel and wood and if you stick on say a 50 round drum of .45 acp rounds, you are lugging around 15 ibs around.

The Sten's biggest problem is that side mounted magazine with the cheap arse spring we put in it. Thats why the MP40 is a better submachine gun. I wish they had covered the Sten Mk5 with the better handles and sights on them and measured firearms for more than just the size and amount of rounds they could carry.
 
Ha. I love watching that show no matter how absurd the tests are or the weapons they compare. It is almost like a serious comedy.

I like the thompson better but the side mounted magazine on the sten makes it good for soldiers who are prone. If I could only fire a full auto thompson.....
 
The two firearms could not have been more different, the STEN is a *laser*, precise, high velocity fire, the Tommy Gun is brute force personified, *massive* damage at the cost of a *little* accuracy....


Pretty sure the upside of the Sten was cheap, easy production in basement and garage workshops and ease of use by people with limited time and resources for training. I didn't think it was known for accuracy, and I didn't think the Thompson/.45 ACP in general was known for "massive" damage. Better than 9mm, sure. Massive, absolutely not.
 
Check out the Sterling 9mm Sten on the market now, built by wise-lite from texas using surplus parts kits from Sterling. You get two 34 round mags and they lock into the left side of the reciever, a new fun gun.
 
I do not know what this show is, but I have fired a couple versions of the Thompson and several Sten Guns.

They are two weapons from a totally different standpoint. The older original 1920s style Tommy gun is a thing of beauty with finely machined parts, nice deep blueing and strong American Walnut stock pieces. The rear sight is overly complicated and there are a couple parts that can be inserted upside-down or backwards.
They are also very heavy.
On the up side, they run for a long time while dirty. I can't figure out how since they are so tight. They are also VERY accurate.
A buddy of mine and mysef fired the 1927 that belongs to the Anchorage Office of the FBI all afternoon using Air Guard Israeli contract 45 ball ammo. We shot about 1,000 round each and that gun was not having any problems.

I could make head shots at 100 yards with no problem. At 25 meters I was able to cut my initials (full auto burst) into a target thanks to the Cutts Compensator.

I have also fired a Thompson M1A1 version in the Navy. They were much more simple and the rear sight was a bent piece of steel. Plus they fired from an open bolt and the cocking handle was on the side. The M1A1 Tommy's do not take drum magazines, only sticks. They are slightly lighter and slightly less accurate since they are much looser. But 50 yard head shots are still easy. Long burst are more difficult since there is no Cutts Compensator on the G.I. M1A1 version.

On the Other Hand:::::

The Sten Gun was designed as a last ditch weapon when England was expecting to get overrun by the Nazis. They could be made by muffler makers, bicycle shops and welders. They are loose, crude and covered in cheap black paint. Most of the modern made Sten Clones are much better than the WWII era Stens.
While OK for a crude sub-gun they are not very accurate compared to the Thompson (any Thompson) or an UZI, Sterling, or the very accurate MP5.
The advantage of the Sten is that is is very cheap to produce and fairly light compared to a Thompson. They also fold-up (part disassmb) into a small package for air-drop. They also use lighter, although less lethal, 9mm ammo.

A Sten woud be better compared to a M3A1 Grease Gun. Not a Thompson.

Should one desire to compare a Thompson to a British Sub Gun, something like the accurate and well made British Lancaster sub gun (preceeded the Sterling) would be closer to the mark.
 
I find the use of the word "precise" and "STEN" in then same sentence amusing.

(I have used enough STENs to know better.)

I wasn't terribly impressed with the accuracy of much better made Sterlings I trained on, so can't imagine the Sten would be very impressive in that capacity.
 
In my experience, the STEN is quite accurate and much easier to keep on target than the TSMG, especially if the TSMG doesn't have the Cutts comp. That side mounted magazine is a great idea, as it allows the soldier to fire prone or over cover (e.g., a wall) without the magazine forcing him to expose parts of his precious hide in order to aim. (And yes, you do aim with an SMG; only in the movies do people mow down a hundred of the enemy with a 32 round magazine, by pointing the gun somewhere in the general direction of the target.)

Jim
 
One of the ones we had in the arms room (Sterling, not Sten) shot about three feet to the right of point of aim at 25 meters . . . though I guess it was consistent about doing so. :)
 
I find the term laser and an open bolt gun to be amusing.

I find that ya can do better than one would think but they aren't varmit/target guns by any means. While I believe a civilian may be better served by a semi auto 12 ga an OO I would not feel unarmed with my registered classic "toy"

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The two firearms could not have been more different, the STEN is a *laser*, precise, high velocity fire, the Tommy Gun is brute force personified, *massive* damage at the cost of a *little* accuracy....

From test's I had seen the Sten had a tendency to lead off the target to the right in full auto fire due to it being supported & controlled by it side mount magazine. The German sub 9mm had a tendency to chew the center out of the target at the same distance in full auto fire and not lead off the target in these same tests. I would like to have a chance to use either and verify this myself!
 
I have used both the STEN, THompson and M3 Grease gun maybe have put 10,000 rounds through them collectively, my ammo used to be free!

The Thompson is not a "spray and pray brute at all". It is very accuratte for any smg. On semi auto you can hit a man sized target a 100 yeard in the kill zone no problem. Given some practice you can do itat 250 yards if ther is no wind. With short burst the same thing hit wsie at 100 yards or less.

The Thomson is very heavy and so it is controlable even spitting out the .45 acp round. But there are two cylic rates and the military ones, as opposed to the very fast firing old Chicago gangsters 1920's version fire at reduced rate (750 rpm or 800) and very effecetive and controlable rate. The old military ones, I had M1A1 amde by Savage and they are not internally like the 1930 models, there is a fixed firing pin on the bolt face like the sten or M3. The roaring twenties version used complex 'Blish' locking system. There are fewer parts in a M1A1 than an old Chicago Typewriter too. The gun is very reliable really.

IN contrast the M3 Grease Gun is the slowest firing SMG ever made and about 450 rpm. It is very controlable. Also the M3 was fitted with 9mm convesion for NATO Europen troops but sledon was it evr installed. I fire one for grins, it takes 4 mintues to conver with NATO kit, fairs bit faster in 9mm but I will take the .45 acp version.The M3 is so lsow it almost does ot feel like you are firnf full auot to somee ctent if you are used to regular 650 rpm smgs.

AS for th STEN, I have a soft spot there as I used to have some as class 3 dealer. They are so cheaply made in tis mind boggling and they sold cheap back then too ( $650 each) Hence , I had to get one back then ( 22 years ago). The STEN is as cheap a gun as can be imagined. IT is all stamping except for the bolt and barrel period.

The big problem with the STEN is magazines which were made like the STEN by the tens of millions and some were made not to spec. The result is that you must test each STEN mag with the particular STEN gun you have for reliability.

I can just look ata STEN and peer inside the reciver and see how and exactly where the fixed ejector is welded to the inside of the reciver tube and tell which magazines will likely work in that gun.If you amtch magazines and do not loas but 27 rounds in the 32 round magazine the STEN can be reliable. The STEN design is Nazi design orginaly, guns look identical. The STEN was designed on the Erma SMG (Nazi STEN) that wer captured an atken back to England aftre the Dunkirk fiasco, The solider said "we neeedd one ot these kinds guns!" Up to that point the Britich were steadfastly aginst any smg and feling they had no purpose. So Sheprard and Turpin, the S and T in STEN designed the gun and built the first protype in 9 weeks!

The horizontal magazine is really a good idea in an smg. It has two advatages (1) You can lay flat and fire makeing yourself much less of a easy target profile, you can't do that with any straight down magazine smg as the mag forces you to the gun up and 'keep your head up' (2) The horizontal hold and the pistol grip are in two diffrent planes and at right angles to each other making a very steady grip. YOu can write your name on a large paer target with good STEN on full auto it can be so contraolabale.

In www2 some Britsh troops "lost" or destoyed" their STEN gunsa sthey thoght it was to cheap and unrelaible for them want to take into abttle, they previously had the Thompson. Having dirched their STEN they could get bolt action Enfiled which they fel safer with.

The STEN was redesigned and much beter made afetr ww2 as the STERLING SMG, arguably the best an most reliable smg ever fielded useing an open bolt design.
 
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