Interesting Discovery/ Possible issue with my Tikka 30-06 and Superformance Ammo

[HarcyPervin]

So I took my new Tikka out for deer opener this weekend, the weather was terrible, the deer weren't moving. Anyway, I took one shot at a doe, and noticed something when un-loading to get out of my stand. The shot was a miss (my fault, not the gun) but when I extracted my #2 round and the subsequent ones out of the magazine later in the night that the tips on the Hornady Superformance rounds I'd been using were all slightly deformed. I couldn't remember if I may have dropped them on the table or maybe they had gotten roughed up at some point while I was walking so I replicated this by shooting at a pumpkin with 4 brand new rounds when I got back. Here's what I found -

After loading 1 in the chamber and fully loaded clip (3 more rounds) and firing #1 -

#2 in the process of being chambered would have a small chunk taken out of the plastic tip of the bullet. It was probably less than 1/4", but took out roughly half of the plastic tip to that point. I'm thinking that this was a result of catching the edge of the chamber or something during the process of working the bolt. However, the point remained just as sharp as when it came out of the box

#'s 3 & 4 - both of these rounds had their points smashed flat, with some small red plastic remnants being found in the magazine. I'm assuming that the recoil of the rifle slammed them forward into the front of the magazine.

I had never filled the clip while practicing at the range, as I'd shoot, look at the shot, let the gun cool for a minute or two, repeat.

My question then - has anbody that shoots plastic tipped rounds noticed this, with the T3 or any other guns, and is this something to worry about. I'd assume that having deformed tips might be of some consequence at long ranges, but with how fast they're spinning and the relatively short distance of my shots 200> yds, its not a big deal. Is this a gun issue or is it an issue with the tips being too soft or is it a non-issue?

If pictures would help, let me know, I'd have to get them tonight when I get home from work.

 

[HarcyPervin]

Bump. Just wondering if anybody notices this with their own plastic tipped rounds or Tikkas and possible effects?

 

[hardluk1]

I have shot plastic tipped bullets for better than 20 years and have not looked till today. OK, both may rifles will chamber rounds with out any damage to the tips. My rifles are an old rem 788 in 308 shooting NBT bullets and ruger 77mkII in 7mm mag shooting the old Horndy heavy mag sst moly loads.. Maybe something with your rifle.

 

[LoonWulf]

My old savage 110, used to take the front off of lead tipped bullets on the way to the chamber. It would also scratch up the jackets and ding the tips of the STS bullets i used. I just lived with it as accuracy never seemed to suffer much. When i swaped it over to .300 it quit doing it, but i think the slightly larger bullet and longer case would push the nose higher in the chamber so it didnt snag.

 

[CB900F]

Harcy;

The cause may lie in the ammo itself. Who makes this "Superperformance" stuff? Reason I ask is that I handload all my hunting ammo & run it through a Tikka T3. I stay within the reloading manual guidelines, but if the accuracy is there, I'm not shy about pushing the bullets out the muzzle at max velocities either. In one particular .30-06 Tikka I use the Hornady 150 grain spire point #3031 which has the unprotected lead point. I have noticed some slight flattening of those tips, but nothing to get excited about. Which causes me to wonder just what the recoil factor is on this "Superperformance" ammo of yours.

Regardless of chamber pressure, if the bullet goes out the muzzle at a faster velocity, the recoil will be increased. What bullet weight is this stuff? And, have you run it over a chrono?

900F

 

[pbrktrt]

I've been using it since it was introduced in my Vanguard and it looks like new when the rounds not shot are emptied. Might be a magazine/ feed lip issue.

 

[Art Eatman]

For my '06, I noticed at the bench that shooting five shots from a full magazine had the soft-points' tips battered a bit. #4 was obvious and #5 was flattened.

Funny part was that it didn't really hurt the group size. I've read of others with the same experience.

However, it looks like the amount of loss of plastic that was related above would possibly affect the group size. Maybe.

 

[30Cal]

My M1A beats up AMax's pretty good in the magazine.

 

[HarcyPervin]

The cause may lie in the ammo itself. Who makes this "Superperformance" stuff? Reason I ask is that I handload all my hunting ammo & run it through a Tikka T3. I stay within the reloading manual guidelines, but if the accuracy is there, I'm not shy about pushing the bullets out the muzzle at max velocities either. In one particular .30-06 Tikka I use the Hornady 150 grain spire point #3031 which has the unprotected lead point. I have noticed some slight flattening of those tips, but nothing to get excited about. Which causes me to wonder just what the recoil factor is on this "Superperformance" ammo of yours

They're called Superformance, produced by Hornady. http://www.hornady.com/store/Superformance

I'm not too worried about the flattening of the tips, as many types of factory rounds have that same profile (winchester fusion, for example) I'm more worried about the chunk taken out of the tips. My thinking is that if the gun is taking that much of a chunk out of a pointed tip, it may snag more on the tip that has been pounded a few times by recoil and take a sizeable chunk that could pose a problem. I guess it might require just making the switch or maybe some range time and testing...

Their selling point is 200 fps faster with no additional recoil, or something to that effect. (seems physically impossible without a reduction in bullet weight, no?) Their website quotes:
Superformance propellants provide a longer duration/application of peak pressure in the pressure time curve that occurs within the barrel (see Fig. 1 pressure curve). In other words, both Superformance and standard propellants provide an equally powerful “push” applied to the base of the bullet, but with Superformance propellants, the “push” is applied for a longer period of time.

Anyway, it grouped well with my gun during my initial break-in, sight in and practice, although I single load when at the range so I never shot a round that had been held in the magazine.

I'll post some pictures in a minute.

 

[Gtscotty]

I have noticed before that my Tikka T3 in '06 mangles the plastic tips a little on the 165 gr sst bullets I use in my loads. This doesn't happen all the time, and from what I could tell, happens when I chamber the round. I just assumed that there was a slight edge at some point in the rounds trip to the chamber... To be honest the deformation didn't impact my accuracy in a noticeable manner, and I've never had a round (out of probably 160 fired) hang up on the way in, so I'm not too concerned. As for the rounds in the mag getting flattened tips... at least in soft point bullets, I think that is kind of unavoidable in a powerful rifle with a box mag. Maybe Hornady is using a very soft plastic on these sst tips? I have always wondered whether the flattened lead at the front of a soft point impacts accuracy, but can't find anything online either way.

 

[HarcyPervin]

Thats exactly what I figured, and I'm shooting the 165 sst's as well. I'm working on a few pictures as well right now. I'm also going to continue to shop around for rounds that work better, and eventually reload for it.

I'm going to upload pictures tomorrow.

 

[Gtscotty]

I guess I'm not concerned enough to look into switching, I already have a warm but superbly accurate load worked up with these SSTs and honestly even when my rifle munched on the bullet tips a little, it still shot great. For what its worth, I also noticed the same tip trouble with the 165 gr NS ballistic tips. Good luck with your search.

 

[LoonWulf]

shortening the COAL might help with the bullet munching, IF the round is hitting the bottom of the chamber. The case may pop the nose up a bit more if its shorter. This isnt an option for OP since hes using factory ammo.

 

[HarcyPervin]

Unfortunately I don't have the time, space, or resources to get into reloading right now. That combined with city living don't allow me to as much range time as I'd like. Be it as it may, I'm surprised to see that an action that was supposedly designed around the 30-06 would be having these issues with factory rounds. Sorry about the picture quality, used my phone.


Tip chunk missing after shot, then reload, started as #2 position


Flattened tips (bottom) New (Top) Also noticed color changes on brass and bullet after being in pocket of cover-alls and out in the cold (Left)


Box.

 

[LoonWulf]

thats pretty impressive flattening lol. I dont think mine ever got that squashed LOL. I always loaded right to the max my mag box would handle (tho ive got some 162amax that dont come close for my 7mm, well see if it makes a difference).

 

[HarcyPervin]

I'm going to cycle some new rounds and the squashed rounds through tonight to see if it continues to happen...updates coming.

I'd be pretty suprised if this was actually impacting accuracy. I think that the bullet is spinning fast enough that a slight defect in the tip is most likely being balanced out, at least at my ranges of shooting. I'm wondering, however, if this may be a symptom of something being out of spec with the internals of my rifle.

 

[rodregier]

You can also get the tips of cartridge projectiles battered from recoil as they sit in the box magazine when firing. Most common box (or blind) magazine designs have nothing to restrain the cartridges from reciprocating front to back as they rest in the magazine.

 

[4thPointOfContact]

Took a Win-94 hunting for a week, loaded with the polymer-tipped LEVERevolution rounds and by the end of the week they were all noticeably deformed. I finished the week with conventional soft-tips and saved the Leverevolution's for plinking.

When I did get set up for plinking, I found that the rounds had recovered and decided on doing a little test. I left the magazine full of Leverevolutions for a full week and then tested for accuracy. I didn't find the groups noticeably opened when measured.

From what I've heard, the base of the bullet is Much more important than the tip. I believe you can really mess up the tips and still not have as much of an impact as slight changes to the base.

 

[HarcyPervin]

You can also get the tips of cartridge projectiles battered from recoil as they sit in the box magazine when firing. Most common box (or blind) magazine designs have nothing to restrain the cartridges from reciprocating front to back as they rest in the magazine.

This is exactly what I'm assuming is happening, and as far as I'm concerned its a non issue for my shooting requirements. My worry comes in when you consider if there's an edge somewhere inside the action that will catch a small, pointed tip enough to chunk it....how much more will it take out of a tip that may have been flattened two or three times by the recoil of firing? What would happen if these chunks ended up in fron of the bullet when fired and so on? I put a lot of effort into keeping my barrell out of the dirt and snow so that I don't get foreign materials in there that could cause problems, I'd hate to see something bad happen because the ammunition choices I made lead to problems for myself or someone shooting my gun.

 

[30Cal]

Yeah, my M1A does worse to those tips. It tore one or two off out of the 2k I fired; those went into the corners at 600yds (about 2MoA out of the group). For the dinged up ones; the weight of any displaced polymer is insignificant in comparison to the weight of the bullet. As long as the load shoots well, I wouldn't sweat it. FWIW, it's going to treat soft points badly as well (much worse in fact).

 

[HarcyPervin]

Should I be more worried about the points snagging inside the action, or is that something you've seen as well? The tikkas are push feed so I'm guessing a little movement of the round from side-to-side can be expected. I don't think its ruining accuracy, I'm just wondering if its abnormal. Click on and enlarge the first picture in the group above. My cell phone camera wasn't much help, but if you zoom in you can see the chunk missing.