Interstate gun inheritance?

[halfded]

My Grandfather, 94, has recently had to give up living on his own and move into an assisted living facility. My mom and her brother were going through his house getting everything accounted for and cleaned up so my cousin can renovate the house for his family.

So my mom calls me the other day and tells me that she found a few guns and I could have them if I wanted them. Trying to explain to her how to find the mfr info on the gun was like pulling teeth but I managed to find out that there is an old .22 single shot pistol, a bolt action something that's a little rusty, and a (I think) break action shotgun in good condition. All these guns have been sitting in a closet or dresser drawer for at least 25 years, the pistol was sitting on top of an old wallet with $800 cash! I, of course, accepted and she said she'd call me back to let me know about picking them up.

I got a call back from her and she brought up the legalities of bringing these guns from Maryland to Virginia. Honestly, it hadn't even crossed my mind until she brought it up.

Is it necessary to have the guns transferred from a MAryland FFL to a Virginia FFL or (since she has basically assumed ownership of his property) can she just bring them home?

I remember reading somewhere that giving a firearm as a gift to someone in another state is legal as long as that person is legal to own and said weapon is not prohibited in either state.

I'd like to avoid the FFL route if possible since the fees I'll probably end up paying will far outweigh the value of the guns. Besides, I don't even like to set foot in Maryland, much less spend my money there!

 

[Sam1911]

The guns can be placed in his will and then transferred to you as part of the disbursement of his estate. Unfortunately that has to be handled by his executor after his demise.

Otherwise, transferring the guns across state lines will require a trip to an FFL.

Now, if you grandfather will transfer them to your mother, she could be bring them to an FFL in your state and transferred them to you there. With the long-guns that's easy. Unfortunately MD requires an FFL to transfer a pistol, and a waiting period, etc, which would be a hassle for your granddad and mother.

It is legal to loan or rent any Title I firearm to someone in another state, so you certainly could possess them right now. But it will probably be easiest for all involved if you can wait until the distribution of his estate to transfer ownership.

 

[halfded]

Thanks Sam.

Exactly the info I was looking for, although not really what I wanted to hear!

He's not very mobile anymore so dragging him to an FFL is basically out of the question. Besides, they haven't quite broken the news to him yet that he isn't able to go home. Everyone agrees that it would do more harm than good to tell him at this point. He's just getting back to good health (well, as good as it gets at that age I guess) and finding out he's resigned to a home wouldn't help anything.

Wish I could've gotten to talk to him more when I was old enough to appreciate what he had to say. He spent WWII on a destroyer as a gunner and I'm sure he has some interesting stories.

 

[Sam1911]

It is legal to loan or rent any Title I firearm to someone in another state, so you certainly could possess them right now. But it will probably be easiest for all involved if you can wait until the distribution of his estate to transfer ownership.

Here's where the areas get grey...

As he could loan them to you to use for as long as you like, and then upon his passing they could be transferred to you directly as part of his estate, I'm not sure I see any legal danger in you simply taking possession of them at the present, and simply retaining them when the estate is distributed. (Of course, they do need to be bequeathed to YOU. If the will simply says to distribute his estate evenly amongst the heirs or something, then they aren't necessarily being bequeathed to you which could get tricky.)

Now, IANAL, but I don't see any law being violated there. Maybe some others could chime in on that.

 

[Blackrock]

Are the guns registered in Maryland???
If not just take them home to your place.
My brother and I divided up Dads guns and I brought a handgun and two rifles backto Arizona from Montana.

 

[Sam1911]

Are the guns registered in Maryland???
If not just take them home to your place

This is The High Road. We simply do not condone any volation of the laws of any jurisdiction.

If the law says that guns being transferred across state lines (between living individuals) must go through an FFL -- THAT'S WHAT WE DO.

Remember, if guns are transferred between two non-licensees across state lines TWO federal FELONIES are committed -- one by the transferrer and one by the transferee.

 

[WNC Seabee]

When dad (in MI) wanted to clean out his safe and have me take home a couple rifles and shotguns (in NC), I can't tell you how relieved we both were to remember that he had given them to me while I still lived in MI and had just been holding on to them for me for a few years.

 

[CoRoMo]

Yes, the loan/borrow/rent thing is quite loose as Sam posted in #4. Someone in another state once asked me if I would rent one of my guns to them. It is completely legal.

 

[wishin]

So my mom calls me the other day and tells me that she found a few guns and I could have them if I wanted them.

I don't see how your mother can legally loan, rent or transfer the guns to you given the fact that your grandfather is still living, unless of course she has power of attorney over his affairs. Does he know she offered them to you?

 

[MifflinKid]

There is no gun registration in Maryland.

Check with your local FFL. And then check with another. This cannot not be an unusual situation.

 

[NavyLCDR]

The guns can be placed in his will and then transferred to you as part of the disbursement of his estate. Unfortunately that has to be handled by his executor after his demise.

Sam,

The guns do not have to be specifically left to him in a will:

http://cfr.law.cornell.edu/uscode/uscode18/usc_sec_18_00000922----000-.html
(a) It shall be unlawful—
(3) for any person, other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to transport into or receive in the State where he resides (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, the State where it maintains a place of business) any firearm purchased or otherwise obtained by such person outside that State, except that this paragraph (A) shall not preclude any person who lawfully acquires a firearm by bequest or intestate succession in a State other than his State of residence from transporting the firearm into or receiving it in that State, if it is lawful for such person to purchase or possess such firearm in that State, (B) shall not apply to the transportation or receipt of a firearm obtained in conformity with subsection (b)(3) of this section, and (C) shall not apply to the transportation of any firearm acquired in any State prior to the effective date of this chapter;


Intestate succession: refers to the law of the State providing for the inheritance of property from a person who dies without leaving a will. Thus, to carry out a "intestate succession" simply means to transfer something after the owner has died and in accordance with the State law of intestate succession.

Although it would certainly guarantee to whom the guns would go to.

 

[gearchecker]

Navy LT, can you please try to translate this in a nonlegally binding statement what this means in plain english for us laymen & laywomen?

Does it mean he is or isn't require to use an FFL to get them in his possession across the state lines?

I'm not too good with legalese! ~GQ~

 

[351 WINCHESTER]

Since Grandpa is still alive they are still his guns, not your Mom's. Only your Grandpa can give them away until he dies and if they are not in a will they will go into probate. What if he gets well enough to come home? Who's going to explain where his guns are? I don't know how far you live from your Grandpa, but maybe it's time to have a heart to heart with him before he passes and you can ask him if he wants to give you his guns. He probably has more hidden that your Mom hasn't found yet. Believe me, I wish I would have asked my Grandpa a lot of questions.

 

[NavyLCDR]

Navy LT, can you please try to translate this in a nonlegally binding statement what this means in plain english for us laymen & laywomen?

Does it mean he is or isn't require to use an FFL to get them in his possession across the state lines?

I'm not too good with legalese! ~GQ~

While grandpa is still alive, if the guns were to be permanently transferred to the out-of-state grandson...yes the FFL would be required.

Once grandpa dies, his guns can be passed on to the out-of-state grandson as an inheritance without FFL involvement in one of two ways - in a will, or via intestate succession which means without a will (the court decides).

 

[scythefwd]

halfded,
I know a FFL in northern VA that does transfers for 25 each, or that is the price he quoted me. There may be a coworker discount involved that I don't know about. If you need to use one in VA, which is all I believe would be required here, PM me and I can get you in touch with him in a couple of days.

 

[deadin]

Via intestate succession there is no guarantee that the grandson would get the guns. Every State has its own version of the succession order to be used.
Usually spouse first, then blood relatives in descending order. (i.e. children, then grandchildren, etc.) If there are no living direct descendents, it will usually go back to siblings and down through nieces/nephews and so on. If there is more than one heir at a given level, the court will split the goods. If a State allows an executor, he/she will decide who gets what. All of this divvying up will be of what is left after all debts and other encumbrances are satisfied, even if it requires selling some of the estate to settle them.

 

[Sam1911]

NavyLT, you are exactly right, of course, but my admonition for him to make sure that they were in the will -- for HIM -- was precisely for the reasons deadin mentioned. If they are simply part of the estate, they'll be divvied up along with the rest of the pile. He could certainly have them as part of his share (if he HAS a share), but only if that works out to the satisfaction of everyone else involved (and/or the court).

Lawful or not, a very great number of "grandpas' guns" do seem to wander off as that revered gentleman is thought (by those around him) to be facing the last downward slide. Those tales seem to come up a lot here, and I've witnessed it myself. When the original owner does pass on, and an inventory of the estate is taken for probate purposes, various treasured items that would have been valued heirlooms seem to be missing from that list, already having found new homes with those who (rightly or wrongly) knew that "Grandpa would have wanted it that way."

And that often happens quite innocently through decisions of others acting on Grandpa's behalf -- like halfded's mother in this case. I've no doubt that Grandpa has granted her his blessing to make such distributions (well, we're hoping) but ownership of a firearm is a legally weighty thing and the transfer of that ownership is supposed to be handled correctly -- even if that is inconvenient. If these transfers are being made outside of his knowledge and consent, they certainly are not legal. As long as he is still present here, any transfers, loans, etc. must be at his pleasure.

 

[NavyLCDR]

Yes, I agree completely, Sam!