Introducing a female friend to guns [shotgun-specific]

[zminer]

In a few weeks I am going to be going to the range with a (platonic) female friend to show her the basics of safe operation of firearms. Mostly we're going to be using my Ruger 10/22, since the operations are pretty straightforward and the report and recoil are quite minimal. The main purpose of this trip is to tell her about the four rules of gun safety, show her how to load and unload, how to act safely on the range, and then let her run through as many rounds as she wants to plinking at cans and other reactive targets.

I have a Remington 870 12-gauge shotgun that I am going to bring with me, just to show her the difference between rifles and shotguns, but I am leery about actually letting her use it. She is much shorter and lighter than I am, and I don't want to scare her away from guns by giving her a roaring beast her first time out, especially one which might actually hurt her shoulder. But, at the same time, it might be a fun thing for her to use the shotgun - fully informed about how loud and powerful it will be - and end on a note of, "if you can handle that, you can handle anything."

Can a small, light person who is new to guns actually enjoy shooting a 12-gauge the first time out, or is that something to hold back until later sessions? Has anyone had experience with this kind of thing?

 

[rcmodel]

Most certainly they can if you don't start them out with 3" Magnum slugs or something stupid like that.

Both my 100 pound wife, and 60-70 pound sons were weaned on 12 ga trap loads and all still enjoy shooting clay pigeons every chance they get.

Just get some light target shells and teach her how to properly hold the gun before ever firing a shot.

I also think it helps a lot to start with hand-thrown clays or something.
Tracking flying targets takes the shooters mind off the recoil.

Standing up and shooting a shotgun at a stationary target just isn't much fun for most people, because you have time to anticipate recoil and think about reacting to it.

rc

 

[jfdavis58]

Shotguns can be very intimidating to a beginner. On the other hand I know about 2 dozen petite women who absolutely love to shoot theirs. It's something to consider either way. Do you have something in-between? Might help to work-up to the shotgun. I'd take it, explain it, offer to show it in action, then ask if she wanted to give it a try--but not with any challenge as your 'handle anything" phrase suggests--just a plain try it if you want, very casual attitude. Make sure she gets it well planted at the shoulder if she does.

 

[zminer]

I'd take it, explain it, offer to show it in action, then ask if she wanted to give it a try--but not with any challenge as your 'handle anything" phrase suggests--just a plain try it if you want, very casual attitude.

You're absolutely correct. What I mean by that was that I would tell her up front what it would be like, and then if she DID decide to try it and was successful, then the message would be, "pretty much every regular firearm will be less noisy and have less recoil than that, so since you were able to handle that, you're in a pretty good situation." There is no way I would ever try to make someone try something they didn't want to do with firearms. That's a recipe for a nervous (and therefore, unsafe) shooter.

EDIT: Unfortunately, I don't really have anything in between that she could shoot. My collection is pretty small at this point, so it's 22s or 12-guage shells.

 

[oneounceload]

Maybe you should take her to a shotgun gun club - the clay target type - that way she can try various guns, rent one or two that might actually fit her and be successful.

MOST shotguns are too long in the stock for a small statured person, regardless of gender, and most folks try to impress them by handing them a 00 buck or slug. Go with LIGHT, repeat L I G H T TARGET loads. If your range is an indoor range check first to see if they allow it. If not, don't even bother with the shotgun until some time down the road. Start her with .22, and work up slowly using light-recoiling loads in centerfire, otherwise the odds of her remaining platonic, or any kind of friend, start to diminish rapidly.

 

[owlhoot]

I have a LOT of experience in this area. As Oneounceload noted, a big, big, problem is the length of butt stock. It is almost impossible for a person to properly mount a shotgun to the shoulder if the stock is too long. And it is the improper mounting of the shotgun that is responsible for most of the discomfort and perceived recoil in shooting a shotgun.

Keep her away from the shotgun unless you can fit her with a shorter stock.

 

[Fred Fuller]

She is much shorter

That's your biggest issue- well, HER biggest issue- right there. As has been indicated above, you need a shorter stock. How short, I don't know. My wife is 5'4" and about 125 pounds, and she prefers a 12.5" LOP stock. She can handle a 12 gauge just fine- but then, she was a 3-gun shooter for a good while, too.

Hogue has a 12" LOP stock that might be helpful- see http://www.hoguestore.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=654_17&products_id=4614 . Stocks are easy to change on 870s...

The gun should have a field type forearm, the long one that covers part of the receiver when the action is open, not the short LE type forearm. That's a big help for shorter arms too- they don't have to overextend the support arm to reach the forearm.

A plain 18-20" barrel with no magazine extension or any other attachments/accessories forward of the forearm will help reduce weight forward of the support hand. That too will make the gun more manageable.

And using the lightest possible loads is another thing to plan for.

I did Defensive Shotgun 101 for my 25 year old neice not long ago. I laid out a table full of shotguns on the range, and the gun she chose after handling them all and shooting several was a Remington 870 Express Youth gun (20 ga., 21" VR barrel, 13" LOP). There was a 12 gauge exactly like it on the table- same barrel length, same stock length- that she had shot, but she said she liked the little 20 better because it handled easier for her. So we sent it home with her 8^).

That might be a thought too- used, the Express Youth guns aren't terribly expensive.

BTW, I basically stole Louis Awerbuck's POI (program of instruction or lesson plan) from his Combat Shotgun video. We watched that first, then went out and did the live fire stuff on the range. I concentrated more on the basics of fighting with a shotgun for her since she was a safe gunhandler already and had a good grasp of fundamentals with a shotgn. A brand new shooter needs to learn the basics of shooting first before getting into gunfighting.

If there's an NRA Basic Shotgun class nearby, that might be worth both your whiles.. see http://www.nrainstructors.org/CourseCatalog.aspx for a class description and class locator.

FWIW,

lpl

 

[AcceptableUserName]

start out with any gun capable of firing a 3 1/2" heavy bb load. its downhill from there

 

[627PCFan]

start her with a 7/8oz load going 1100 fps and focus on her form. Shell be fine. If I start a newbie on the range, they get one shell 7/8oz load in a SBEII. It doesnt cycle but it doesnt kick either-

The biggest problem is negating all the hollywood crap they have learned on TV since they were 6 years old-

 

[Jim Watson]

If SHE wants to try it, provide a light load - a one ounce extra light target load will have less recoil than 7/8 oz cheapmart stuff - and have her fire it at skeet station 7 low house. As said the moving target will take her mind off the recoil, and low 7 is a no-deflection shot.

 

[52grain]

Look for the Remington "managed recoil" 12 gauge loads (Winchester has a similar product in their AA line). The recoil and report is significantly less and is comparable to typical 20 gauge loads.

I would probably stick to the 10/22 the first time out. The shotgun would be fine con a second or third lesson. I agree with other posters on learning with hand thrown targets. Also be sure that she is holding the gun properly while shooting otherwise she might get some nasty bruises.

 

[Guvnor]

I agree with previous posters that teaching her proper stance and technique is essential. Thoroughly explain how to properly mount the gun, hold it in tight, proper footing, and leaning into the gun. Being a first timer, shell probably still get a good wallop regardless. But she'll be better prepared with some good instruction.

 

[sniper5]

The Winchester ammo goes under the name "WinLite". I'll vouch for it being very soft shooting. Combine that with a 12" LOP stock from Hogue and I think you'll be good to go. Check the recoil pad and make sure it's moooshy. If not, then Limbsaver if it can be fitted to the Hogue stock.

FYI: I don't know if this will apply to you at all, but my VERY recoil shy wife moved up from a .22 to a 6.5 x 55 Mauser with a low recoil load I loaded up for her- 140 grain bullet with 17 grains of SR4759 powder (the powder is great for reduced loads) and has almost no recoil. There are similar loads available for .308 and others you might look into if you reload. I believe the load is from the Sierra Manual 13, but it is posted in several sites along with some of the others. If you don't reload, maybe you could sit down with a friend that does for an afternoon.

 

[Patrice]

I'm so delighted that no one has done the usual "...start her out with a 20ga...good 'ladies' ' gun." a 20ga can buck/kick harder than the heavier 12ga's. The only concession I might recommend is to use the 12ga reduced-recoil rounds, and then go from there.--Patrice

 

[Madcap_Magician]

Also have her dry fire a few times and observe/correct her shooting stance. A proper shooting stance and a rock-hard grip on the shotgun with a recoil-padded butt snugged firmly into your shoulder, does a lot more for newbies on shotguns to tame recoil.

I didn't have the shotgun firmly snugged in the first time I shot a 12-gauge riot gun, and I was bruised for a week.

 

[zminer]

As a followup to this, I just wanted to let everyone know that I didn't end up having my friend use the shotgun. It wasn't because she was scared of recoil or noise or anything like that. Rather, she found my Ruger 10/22 to be too heavy for her, and also somewhat difficult to hold. She ended up having to rest the gun on the bench after every five rounds because she just didn't have the arm strength to hold it for that long. Given that, we both agreed that we'd wait until next time to try out an even heavier gun.

On the upside, she said she had a really good time, and specifically stated that she'd like to go again sometime. She seemed a little nervous at first, but I think the emphasis on safety and the overall non-scariness of the rifle made it work out just fine. She shot about 30 rounds total, and seemed to enjoy herself once she had some experience with the operation of the gun.

Thanks for all the suggestions - if she does end up wanting to shoot the shotgun, I'll give some thought to finding a youth stock, and definitely will look for WinLite, or some similar ammo.

 

[Dave McCracken]

Great!

Another gunner is born....

 

[Dentite]

I'm pretty new to shotguns (got my first two over the past couple months). I've spent 4-5 sessions shooting clays with just a hand-thrower with friends. Took my wife out this weekend for the first time. The only guns she had previously shot were my Remington 541S .22 rifle and my Ruger Mark III .22 pistol.

I got some of the reduced recoil/noise rounds for my 12ga and she also shot some target loads in my 20ga. She had fun and did well for her first time IMO. Of course she was suprised by the recoil having only shot .22s, but she handled it well.

She had the same problem as mentioned above...her arms got tired holding the guns up. She much preferred my 20ga - it's lighter and easier for her to hold. She shot at least one box of shells...I was happy.

She also shot one 2 3/4 #4 buckshot at some plywood up close and I was glad I was standing behind her haha. She declined to try the 00 magnum buckshot haha.

She had a good time and mentioned how could see it becoming addictive.

 

[THE DARK KNIGHT]

The biggest problem is negating all the hollywood crap they have learned on TV since they were 6 years old-

I second that, for whatever reason the shotgun has even more of a TV factor in people's minds than anything. Heck, even people on these boards talk about wanting the pump because the "shuck shuck" makes criminals wet their pants and surrender instantly. I'd give, in addition to safety and technique, a through "real world vs. TV shotgun" info as well.