Iran seizes 15 British Marines
- Thread starter Matt King
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The beauty of the whole situation is the fact that despite the fact that Britain or the US have the known, apparent and absolute capacity to respond to such a provocation by ending the existence of Iran, the practical reality is that it's a fairly safe bet for the Iranians that not only will they get away with it, they'll get rewarded for it. At this point no leader in the West could conceivably respond to nearly any agression in kind, with raw naked force.
:banghead:
And thus ends Western civilization, not from lack of strength but from lack of will.
:banghead:
And thus ends Western civilization, not from lack of strength but from lack of will.
May that never be said of us. There is more at stake than just sacrificing 15 men. What are the other soldiers fighting for Her Majesty to think? "My country will abandon me if it's poliitcally expedient"??? What is Iran to think? "Let's see if we can take 50 next time"?? How many of your country's soldiers are you willing to let an enemy kill before believe it's ok to fight back? (not directed at the individual quoted, just rhetorical)
That said, I hope the Brits don't call us to help after pulling out on us.
Fosbery
Member
1) Let Iran get away with kidnapping 15 servicemen and then it will be 30 and then a hundred and then they'll nuke Israel
2) These boys volunteered to serve and defend their country. No one gets left behind
3) Britain shoud buy up all the napalm and white phospherous bombs it can find, and carpet the whole country with the stuff, shortly before nuking it - after the Marines have been rescued of course
British troops are still and will continue to serve and fight in Iraq. British troop numbers in Iraq have decreased, but increased in Afghanistan. Overall, the number of British troops fighting in the middle east is unchanged, only their geographical distribution has been altered.
2) These boys volunteered to serve and defend their country. No one gets left behind
3) Britain shoud buy up all the napalm and white phospherous bombs it can find, and carpet the whole country with the stuff, shortly before nuking it - after the Marines have been rescued of course
British troops are still and will continue to serve and fight in Iraq. British troop numbers in Iraq have decreased, but increased in Afghanistan. Overall, the number of British troops fighting in the middle east is unchanged, only their geographical distribution has been altered.
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Zundfolge
Member
Where's Jimmy Carter when we need him?
longeyes
member
Now is the time to trade them William and Harry.
(Just kidding.)
(Just kidding.)
LightningJoe
Member
Take him prisoner.
Master Blaster
Member
They got away with taking our embassy personnel hostage thats when they realized we were weak. They got away with blowing up or marines in Beiruit. And Israel who gives no quarter to its enemies, let them get away with raining down missiles on part of Israel this past Summer.
And we are letting them corrupt Iraq just like Lebanon.
And we are letting them corrupt Iraq just like Lebanon.
yy
Member
not about guts
The problem is with doing things half a$$ed. The misguided people who want peace by tying up their warriors. Karma-ically what we fight for in this life isn't important. And if we (or the brits) level a city or two, those acts of retaliation come back to haunt us. So the two ends are both ineffective. But the middle doesn't work either. And we cannot live with the status quo. Thus lies the pain of this suffering world.
admirals have to take care of a lot more servicemen and women than the 15 kidnapped. Imagine the hurt their civilian purse-holders can cause to the remaining hundres and thousands of servicemen and women. A good admiral who cares still can't act heroically. Especially not when the media stands by to roast him and when the media consumers join the media (gasp!) in roasting any admirals doing the right thing.
Remember the old argument that obscures and obfuscates -- what is the right thing?
The problem is with doing things half a$$ed. The misguided people who want peace by tying up their warriors. Karma-ically what we fight for in this life isn't important. And if we (or the brits) level a city or two, those acts of retaliation come back to haunt us. So the two ends are both ineffective. But the middle doesn't work either. And we cannot live with the status quo. Thus lies the pain of this suffering world.
admirals have to take care of a lot more servicemen and women than the 15 kidnapped. Imagine the hurt their civilian purse-holders can cause to the remaining hundres and thousands of servicemen and women. A good admiral who cares still can't act heroically. Especially not when the media stands by to roast him and when the media consumers join the media (gasp!) in roasting any admirals doing the right thing.
Remember the old argument that obscures and obfuscates -- what is the right thing?
george29
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Actually, I think this kidnapping of the British Marines has more to do with the fact that numerous Iranian Scientists and High Ranking Military (at least one Admiral by one account) have been disappearing from places like Turkey and Afghanistan. I personally think that all they are looking for is a trade and these Brits will be unharmed and eventually released. (Just as soon as our Intel guys, & possibly the Mossad, are finished getting the info they need). This one will take a few weeks to months, it sure smells like Chicken Soup & Big Mac to me.
Diplomacy with the enemy is what is happening.
You cannot make deals with this people they are of a mindset that we are the enemy, period!
The outright taking of prisoners seems to me to be an act of war.
One great big mushroom cloud
over Tehran would stop this.
You cannot make deals with this people they are of a mindset that we are the enemy, period!
The outright taking of prisoners seems to me to be an act of war.
One great big mushroom cloud
over Tehran would stop this.vito
Member
We have lost our nerve, and so has the Brits. The American people do not understand war and lack the guts to see a war through, unless it is a quickie with no or low losses such as the invasion of Granada. Our enemies are emboldened while we worry about offending the sensibilities of Muslims or, god forbid, cause a few civilian casualties in the course of military action. I served in our Army for over twenty years, and while our military is the best in the world, we lack the resolve and political will to use our power to further American interests. Probably not in my lifetime (because I am getting old) but likely in my children's lifetime we will see America fall from our leadership of the world, and bit by bit suffer the losses as others impose their will upon us. Even 9/11 did not really awaken our people, and I am not sure if we lose a city to a nuclear attack if Americans will rise up and fight or just to talk our way into some temporary truce with our enemies. Maybe if the Brits still were led by a Margaret Thatcher we would see decisive action, but I doubt it will happen under Tony Blair or any of his successors.
Bigjake
Member
The answer is simple.
Give em' back RIGHT NOW, UNHARMED, or else we level your precious nuke research compound. Savy?
Give em' back RIGHT NOW, UNHARMED, or else we level your precious nuke research compound. Savy?
cbsbyte
Member
This incident is eerily similar to the Gulf of Tonkin. Hopefully not. But I can't shake the feeling.
longeyes
member
Wherever they were and whyever they were there, you don't make a big deal out of something like this--unless you want trouble.
Iran wants trouble.
I suspect they'll get all they can handle.
Iran wants trouble.
I suspect they'll get all they can handle.
lacoochee
Member
The Iranians are now indicating that they will try their captives for espionage.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article1563877.ece
Also according to this article one of the captives is a woman.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article1563877.ece
Also according to this article one of the captives is a woman.
shootinstudent
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I wish Ronald Reagan were still in office. He knew exactly how to handle these kinds of situations: talk tough, while offering money and arms under the table in exchange for the safe return of the hostages.
22-rimfire
Member
The Lebanon-Isreal war started like this. Iran is flexing it's muscles and I believe it time to flex ours. Sanctions.... that will work..... another couple of months.... then another sanction and a couple more months......
I think we need to ask the Democrats what they would do if it were our soldiers and not just our most prized alley? They want a showdown, let's give them one. Start with the president's plane as it taxies up the runway...
I think we need to ask the Democrats what they would do if it were our soldiers and not just our most prized alley? They want a showdown, let's give them one. Start with the president's plane as it taxies up the runway...
insidious_calm
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FWIW, I think Iran underestimates the resolve of the British to get those marines home alive. Yes, the British did initially try to appease Hitler as well. After that failed they went full bore into his back side. The british have started withdrawing troops from Iraq and are an eyelash away from bowing out of the "war on terror" all together, but Iran risks reversing that position altogether. Renewed british support for the WOT means more troops in Iraq. Bases in Iraq mean the immediate ability to strike Iran with conventional forces. I think Mahmoud 'Iminajihad' is a poor chess player. The longer this drags on the less likely it will end well for Iran.
Failing to deal severely with Iran right now will not end well for the British or the U.S.
I.C.
Failing to deal severely with Iran right now will not end well for the British or the U.S.
I.C.
This is simply a distractionary tactic in their long war of Jihad.
No, they're not trying to distract people from their nukes; their nukes are also a distraction, albiet they serve the double purpose of an actual threat as well. No, the threat they are trying to distract us in the West (mainly Europe, but increasingly in the US as well) from is the encroaching hordes of Muslims immigrating into Western countries. Once their parasitic culture has gained a thorough grip on our throats, they squeeze using the very gloves (liberties) we gave them to kill us:
(Muslim) Husband rips wife's eyes out after she refuses sex
Just as an example and mere sample.
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com
No, they're not trying to distract people from their nukes; their nukes are also a distraction, albiet they serve the double purpose of an actual threat as well. No, the threat they are trying to distract us in the West (mainly Europe, but increasingly in the US as well) from is the encroaching hordes of Muslims immigrating into Western countries. Once their parasitic culture has gained a thorough grip on our throats, they squeeze using the very gloves (liberties) we gave them to kill us:
(Muslim) Husband rips wife's eyes out after she refuses sex
Just as an example and mere sample.
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com
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