Iraq vets, your expertise, please...

[loud-mouth shnook]

The son of a close friend of mine just graduated from camp Lejeune.
he's headed for Baghdad in October as a SAW gunner. He says the SAW gunners are not issued sidearms. So, other than his SAW, he'll have no "personal" weapons. (M9, M4, etc.)

I've known this kid since he was 12 years old and he's had it rough for some of those years. I decided to get him a weapon more suited to CQB and, after conferring with him, decided on an 870 HD. So, he'll be taking a brand new one to the sandbox with him with both a full stock and a pistol-only grip.

My question to you Iraq vets is: From your experience, are there any special measures that he should take to maintain that particular weapon in the fine-sandy conditions?

Thank you in advance,
and also my thanks to him, and all others who have gone before him.
My prayers that all return safely.

 

[Nightcrawler]

He needs to be careful about taking a personal weapon over there. The military tends to frown on it, but it depends on the unit.

SAW gunners aren't issued sidearms because technically, it's an individual weapon. At least in the Army, you don't get an a-gunner and you carry your own ammo and spare barrel.

Can't advise on carrying a secondary long gun as a backup weapon. Obviously it's being done, but doing it so it's not too cumbersome is going to be the trick.

I wasn't in Iraq, but I was in the middle east. For cleaning of a weapon...do so regularly. Break that sucker down and wipe it off as often as you can. VERY CONSERVATIVE AMOUNTS of lubricant. Sand sticks to it like you wouldn't believe. The newer dry lubricants are better in this environment.

A pump shotgun won't be nearly as hard to keep running as a SAW, though.

 

[pcf]

He'd be better of with a mossberg as it would look like the issued shotguns, and the armorers can make repairs........

I wouldn't advocate breaking general order number one, and he should not pack it in the bottom of his seabag with a couple boxes of slugs and keep quite. And once he gets into Kuwait he's not going to "trade an Army kid on the way home a cartoon of smokes for his shotgun."

Personal owned weapon are a NO. Battlefield pickups or trading for them, at worst, amount to bad judgement and losing the weapon.

 

[Hoppy590]

so do they allow troops to cary personal weapons?

 

[esheato]

When I went last year, bringing your own weapon was unequivocally verboten. Granted I'm USAF, so things might be different for sister services.

Ed

 

[MIL-DOT]

sister service? SISTER SERVICE ?????? son, you call the army or the navy "sister" service if'n you want, but the USMC is a BROTHER service !!!!

 

[Fosbery]

Clean clean clean clean! Clean your weapons every opportunity you have. I used bodge tape to cover up any areas where sand etc could get into my weapons (except vital bits like the ejection port) and put a condom over the barrel and taped it in place. Not gonna bother a bullet coming out, but keeps the bore clean until you do. But that's just generic stuff, I've never used a shotgun on military service.

 

[1 old 0311]

The shotgun won't fly. Personal weapons are a big NO,NO. If he wants a sidearm they are VERY easy to get in a combat theatre. Once he gets there just ask around, and keep his ears open.

 

[USMC Tanker]

1. As it's been said, personal weapons are a no-go no matter what service you are in.

2. Chances are, he's going to spend the majority of his time mounted in either 7 tons or humvees. A pistol might be a "handier" option; every time he'd get in/out of the vehicle, he'd have to sling/unsling/stow the shotty.

 

[Fred Fuller]

LMS,

It might be better to get him a good-sized heavy duty sheath knife, he won't have trouble getting that into the country in his gear and it might come in handy as well. A Becker BK2 (5 1/4" blade) or BK7 (7" blade), or an Ontario RAT7 (6 1/2" blade) should be a useful size without being so big as to make his ossifers tell him to leave it at home (see http://www.camillusknives.com/1mainframe.htm?bkt/index.shtml~main and http://www.ontarioknife.com/adventure.html ).

These are serious heavy duty knives, the kind of 'sharp prybar' that soldiers in the field often need, but they are utilitarian and don't cost an arm and a leg so as to cause unnecessary worry about using/abusing one as it was intended to be used. See the reviews at
http://www.physics.mun.ca/~sstamp/knives/becker_cu_7.html
http://www.physics.mun.ca/~sstamp/knives/becker_combat_bowie.html and
http://www.physics.mun.ca/~sstamp/knives/ontario_rtak.html#hatchet_chopping (note- review for the RTAK 10")
for more info on the Becker or Ontario blades (and others).

Best wishes to him,

lpl/nc

edited- spelling

 

[Brian Williams]

I personally do not want my SAW gunner looking to do CQB, he stays back and provides covering fire. He might look for a handgun in theater, but I would want him outside covering my butt while I am inside breaking things and hurting people. As a Rifleman in the Marines, I learned 3 people I wanted to protect where the radioman, the Lieutenant, and the SAW man. The Radioman to be able to call in the overhead load, the Liewy to give direction and the SAW man to cover my butt.

Tell him to look for a 1911, M9 or a nice 357 revolver.

 

[striker3]

+1 to what Brian Williams said.

Sawgunners should not be first into a room, ever. They stay outside and cover hallways and other means of approach. Your friend would be doing a disservice to his fireteam if he put down his SAW to clear rooms.

There is also General Order #1 which prohibits all personal weapons in the theater. While waivers can be obtained, a basic SAW gunner is not going to get one. Get him a decent fighting knife as well as a good sharpening stone and call it good.

 

[Scottso]

Sond the Knife deal, Personally I would get him a Strider, they have a NSN #'d DBL about $300 and its a serious knife. see pic

 

[Hoppy590]

so everyone here always goes on about how a pistol is a weapon to fight your way back to a rifle. well in this situation your adverising using a knife?

id say get him a knife anyway, then when he gets in theater have him express his concerns to his higher ups ( sgt, lt.) and see how they react. maybe they can help him get some thing actualy issued to him. or atleas give him the old "if i dont see it, its not illegal" towards aquiring a local piece.

 

[loud-mouth shnook]

Lee Lapin: stop reading my mind.

I agree, mr. Lapin. I'm very familiar with Ethan Becker's great designs.
My friend's son is also getting a BK7 from me. I, personally, own a BK9, BK10, and a Becker Necker. I applaud your good taste, sir. I also truly appreciate everyone who's been so kind as to take the time to allow me to benefit from their experience. Any and all input is truly welcome.

 

[AndyC]

I think it's great that you're willing to help kit the kid out, but as people here have already mentioned about personal weapons & the military...FWIW I used a Browning HP as my sidearm when I was the SAW-gunner - but I was a contractor, so my rules were different.

Clean the weapons? Yup - often. Use lube? Yup - very sparingly (dust loves lube). The PXs at the various camps are pretty well-stocked.

 

[KingAirDriver]

Forgive my ignorance...

...I've never been in the military, but why won't they let our guys take personal weapons over? If I was going overseas I'd want to take one of mine over, if I wasn't issued a sidearm. I'd want my Beretta 96FS or XD with me.

 

[Brian Williams]

It's called supply, everyone has the same, one drops it any of ours can use it. Also repair is easy.

 

[KingAirDriver]

Thanks, Brian. Makes sense.

 

[Black Knight]

I work as a civilian Police Officer for an Army facility. I am also one of the Police Armorers. The Mossberg would be better for the reaons previously stated but, the new shotgun is the Benelli. Check the Benelli website. My advise is to clean it extra well and use Militec-1 to lube it. My facility sends personnel over from time to time and I am the one who makes sure their M9 pistols (Beretta 92FS) are working properly, cleaned and well lubed. The Militec-1 will permeat the pores of the metal and when the excess is wiped off sand does not stick to it. After a while cleaning and lubing will be easier. Buy him a 4 ounce bottle of Militec-1 from their website before he leaves, it will be worth it. Give him my best wishes for a safe tour and return home safe and sound.

 

[ugaarguy]

why won't they let our guys take personal weapons over?

What Brian Williams said. Also, its a CYA thing, politics, Geneva Conventions. 'Nope we didn't issue the weapon or ammo, General Order Number One says no personal weapons, we can't explain why he was using a weapon/ammo that doesn't comply, if we knew he had it we would have taken it away.' That type thing. Standardized arms and ammo make Geneva compliance much easier. Can you imagine what the news media would do to a troop using a personal weapon over there? Even if it was life or death self defense situation you'd never get a fair shake in today's leftist media.

Ok, I'm off my soapbox now.

 

[rkba_net]

The possession of POW's (Personally Owned Weapons) is a violation of the Multinational Corps Iraq General Order Number One ... and can result in an Article 15 Proceeding or a Courts Martial...

 

[Pickpocket]

He's a SAW gunner; It can send 1,000 rds per minute down range in cyclic mode. He's not going to need a sidearm.

Tell him to clean his weapon every time he sits down and that SAW will treat him just fine.

Attempting to take a personal weapon in country will practically ensure a Court Martial when he gets caught.

 

[Spec ops Grunt]

+1 pickpocket.

Also, does anyone know how much ammo a rifleman and a SAW gunner carries?

 

[striker3]

Usually, the minimum that we have been issued is 360 rounds of 5.56 for riflemen, and 600 rounds for SAWs.

That is 2 bandoliers per M16 and 3 drums for a SAW. It is also common to have the rifleman in the fireteam carry an extra drum or two for the SAW if resupply is not close by.