Is .38 Special Sufficient for SD ?

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Maybe, but I kinda doubt it. As I stated in my previous post, around 1,000fps is the best Speer lists for .38 Special, 125gr "Short Barrel" loads. IMO though, that's still not shabby.:)


Some people are obtuse no matter how much training they've had.:)
Doubt it all you want. This is a post from me last year on another forum and I wasn't lying. I used a chrono
"As a side note one of the other guns we were shooting was my SP 101 Ruger snubby. A while back I bought a box of Underwood Cos. 38+P 125 hollow points on a whim, as I have so many reloaded that I sure didn't need them. They claim 1200 FPS on them and I was curious as to what they'd do in the 2.25" 101. They averaged 1173 FPS and were pleasant to shoot"
That was 1173 Average! Factory Remington 125 Hollow points were 1340 FPS.
 
Doubt it all you want. This is a post from me last year on another forum and I wasn't lying. I used a chrono
"As a side note one of the other guns we were shooting was my SP 101 Ruger snubby. A while back I bought a box of Underwood Cos. 38+P 125 hollow points on a whim, as I have so many reloaded that I sure didn't need them. They claim 1200 FPS on them and I was curious as to what they'd do in the 2.25" 101. They averaged 1173 FPS and were pleasant to shoot"
That was 1173 Average! Factory Remington 125 Hollow points were 1340 FPS.
Whoa, easy there friend. I never called you a liar. I only stated what it say's in my latest Speer Manual, which in my experience with a 2" Smith Model 60 and a chronograph, is a bit optimistic.
Sorry if I made you angry.:)
 
Whoa, easy there friend. I never called you a liar. I only stated what it say's in my latest Speer Manual, which in my experience with a 2" Smith Model 60 and a chronograph, is a bit optimistic.
Sorry if I made you angry.:)
No, I am sorry I blew up. I was shooting today and couldn't hit poop so I was grumpy. I did just as good with my friend's S&W 2 " Model 36 as I did with my Model 24 6.5" at 25 yards.
 
No, I am sorry I blew up. I was shooting today and couldn't hit poop so I was grumpy. I did just as good with my friend's S&W 2 " Model 36 as I did with my Model 24 6.5" at 25 yards.
May be time to work at 50 feet for awhile. Make you feel better.
 
Well obviously a 38 special is barely adequate to kill a field mouse. I don't feel safe unless I leave the house with my desert eagle and my scoped 500 smith and wesson for backup. Of course those are just to hold them off till I can get to my barret 50 cal and my high capacity assault machete. I can only imagine what a terrorist would do when shot in the chest with a 158 grain hollow point. Probably fall to the ground with laughter I imagine.
 
I don't know how I missed this one.
Let me just say this about that. In 1972 when I started carrying a gun, a 5 shot 38 Special with a 2" barrell was the coolest thing on the planet. If you ever had to use it, there was never any doubt that it would surely terminate any situation that one would ever think imagineable. when I moved From NYC to FL in 95, the world started to change in a few years, people were being told that a 38 with 5 rounds would get them killed, because the terrorists and home invasion guys, had AK's and Glocks.
The 38 would still probablly still be in the hands of more people if fear hadn't started to shift many to High Cap Mags, and more extreme and exagerated fear of the unknown. Hostage situations, multiple attackers, House clearing, were words being used by the guy next door, when before only SWAT guys used those terms. The internet had a lot to do with it also. The world changed, became the video game version of itself. Once the Genie came out of the bottle, good luck trying to tell the guy next door that he is pobablly never going to need those goodies he bought for whatever he was preparing for.
So it's more like the 38 just doesn't fit in as the go to gun that it was, only because of what people fear may happen, not because anything that did happen really would have changed for the average guy showing that it no longer is adequate.
It's more than adequate in the world we are actually living in right now. I can't say that I would carry one now, as my primary, although I am looking at the K6, but will hold on to my Glock 19 just in case.
 
I don't carry very often in plublic, mostly just when I'm messing around at home but when I do it's with a ruger Lc9s pro with light loads that are about 38 special standard pressure power. The only reason I prefer the Lc9s is because I hate carrying inside or outside wasteband, and the ruger fits nicely in my front jeans pocket. With a trigger pull very much like a double action revolver I shoot it very well. A 5 shot 38 special is just a little wide for me to comfortably pocket carry. If not for that a smith airweight would be my pic no contest with standard pressure 158 hp's.

Oh and for you old guys, I'm only 30 so don't worry, some of the younger generation has learned to appreciate a good old wheel gun in less than magnum power!
 
The 38 would still probablly still be in the hands of more people if fear hadn't started to shift many to High Cap Mags, and more extreme and exagerated fear of the unknown. Hostage situations, multiple attackers, House clearing, were words being used by the guy next door, when before only SWAT guys used those terms. The internet had a lot to do with it also. The world changed, became the video game version of itself. Once the Genie came out of the bottle, good luck trying to tell the guy next door that he is pobablly never going to need those goodies he bought for whatever he was preparing for.

Its simply amazing how many internet trained special forces members are out there buying thousands of dollars worth of tactical crap to play dress up on the weekend and practice swat team drills. Tactical vests that can hold 60 loaded magazines to fend off the zombies, tactical pants, tactical shoes, tactical glasses, tactical hats! Spend $300 on a flashlight, even better if you can screw it to the front of a glock. Gun on their waist, and one in the back of their pants, and another on their ankle and 4 magazines for each on them at all times. AR15 with heat seeking laser sight under the couch and two in the nightstand. Remember your gun needs to be ambidextrous so you can "continue the fight" if your right hand could get blown off by a hand grenade. Pay money to some other internet trained ninjas to teach you how to have a gunfight and load your gun without a slide release. Get together with your friends and play dress up and pretend your in a post apocalypse movie on the weekends. Then go on the internet and argue with people about if a 9mm is "enough gun" or if you need a 40 or 10, or 45, or 50 AE for "one shot stops" against "drug crazed opponents." Look up studies about bullet effectiveness and analyze them in detail for hours. Then go to the gun store and tell everyone about what you learned and what gun they should buy based on what people on youtube said they need. Don't bother to learn to shoot because the tactical instructor said that 99% of "engagements" happen at a range of 4 inches. No matter that you can't hit a door at 20 feet because your gun hold 26 rounds and you have another 600 in your tactical vest underneath your T shirt. Prepared for anything and desperately hoping it comes! When the government collapses we'll show everyone!
 
Its simply amazing how many internet trained special forces members are out there buying thousands of dollars worth of tactical crap to play dress up on the weekend and practice swat team drills. Tactical vests that can hold 60 loaded magazines to fend off the zombies, tactical pants, tactical shoes, tactical glasses, tactical hats! Spend $300 on a flashlight, even better if you can screw it to the front of a glock. Gun on their waist, and one in the back of their pants, and another on their ankle and 4 magazines for each on them at all times. AR15 with heat seeking laser sight under the couch and two in the nightstand. Remember your gun needs to be ambidextrous so you can "continue the fight" if your right hand could get blown off by a hand grenade. Pay money to some other internet trained ninjas to teach you how to have a gunfight and load your gun without a slide release. Get together with your friends and play dress up and pretend your in a post apocalypse movie on the weekends. Then go on the internet and argue with people about if a 9mm is "enough gun" or if you need a 40 or 10, or 45, or 50 AE for "one shot stops" against "drug crazed opponents." Look up studies about bullet effectiveness and analyze them in detail for hours. Then go to the gun store and tell everyone about what you learned and what gun they should buy based on what people on youtube said they need. Don't bother to learn to shoot because the tactical instructor said that 99% of "engagements" happen at a range of 4 inches. No matter that you can't hit a door at 20 feet because your gun hold 26 rounds and you have another 600 in your tactical vest underneath your T shirt. Prepared for anything and desperately hoping it comes! When the government collapses we'll show everyone!
There are also guys who take the time to write clever but inaccurate caricatures of fellow gun enthusiasts.
 
38 Special is just fine for SD. Police department's used it for years long before modern bullets came along. Now it's even better. Better yet in +P. I'm not sure what all this 5 Rounds is not enough nonsense came from. I'm not sure how many of us are planning on getting into a situation where we get into a running gun fight. I'm not. If I can't get the job done with 5 rounds then I must be missing my intended target a lot.
 
38 Special is just fine for SD. Police department's used it for years long before modern bullets came along. Now it's even better. Better yet in +P. I'm not sure what all this 5 Rounds is not enough nonsense came from. I'm not sure how many of us are planning on getting into a situation where we get into a running gun fight. I'm not. If I can't get the job done with 5 rounds then I must be missing my intended target a lot.

You would be surprised. There's a guy on youtube who does nothing but compile videos of real gunfights from around the world, and you would be amazed how many of them involve multiple attackers, and how many of the thugs stick around to shoot it out. There was one with two thugs robbing a check cashing place, and the guy behind the counter actually had to reload a hi cap semi auto handgun during the gunfight. The little thugs just wouldn't leave.

I'm not saying revolvers are no good. Everything has it's own give and take, but there are definitely very good reasons why police now carry hi cap autos instead of wheel guns.
 
You would be surprised. There's a guy on youtube who does nothing but compile videos of real gunfights from around the world, and you would be amazed how many of them involve multiple attackers, and how many of the thugs stick around to shoot it out. There was one with two thugs robbing a check cashing place, and the guy behind the counter actually had to reload a hi cap semi auto handgun during the gunfight. The little thugs just wouldn't leave.

I'm not saying revolvers are no good. Everything has it's own give and take, but there are definitely very good reasons why police now carry hi cap autos instead of wheel guns.
But when you have a revolver you don't spray and pray. The only way to avoid running out of ammo is to try your best to find a good shot and hit your target.
 
You would be surprised. There's a guy on youtube who does nothing but compile videos of real gunfights from around the world, and you would be amazed how many of them involve multiple attackers, and how many of the thugs stick around to shoot it out. There was one with two thugs robbing a check cashing place, and the guy behind the counter actually had to reload a hi cap semi auto handgun during the gunfight. The little thugs just wouldn't leave.

I'm not saying revolvers are no good. Everything has it's own give and take, but there are definitely very good reasons why police now carry hi cap autos instead of wheel guns.
Just to let you know I somewhat agree with you. Carry a 45ACP when I'm riding in my car and revolver when I'm walking about. I'm a feet's don't fail me now kind of guy.
 
Dang, this thread has legs.:uhoh:

Yep. Thats how things work around here. I don't think there is much more I can add that I didn't say in post # 2. Maybe except look at the Bernard Goetz shooting in the 1980s. He shot and stopped 4 attackers with a 5 shot model 38 S&W revolver. I would say in his case a 38 special was more than enough for the job. I have no idea what bullets were used but I would venture a guess that they were good ole' round nosed lead bullets.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1984_New_York_City_Subway_shooting
 
But when you have a revolver you don't spray and pray. The only way to avoid running out of ammo is to try your best to find a good shot and hit your target.

Gunfights don't work like target shooting matches. Statistically, he who puts the most shots on target the quickest wins the fight. More shots equals more probability that one will land in the sweet spot. There's also something to be said for suppressive fire. You may very well indeed want to spray a few rounds to buy yourself enough time to dive for cover. There are also cases like the guy who got shot 30 times by police and was still shooting back right up until that last bullet that finally got him. I saw the xray for that and many of those rounds were in the center mass, just shy of the heart. There's definitely no one saying marksmanship isn't vital, but good marksmanship isn't a replacement for firepower.

Yep. Thats how things work around here. I don't think there is much more I can add that I didn't say in post # 2. Maybe except look at the Bernard Goetz shooting in the 1980s. He shot and stopped 4 attackers with a 5 shot model 38 S&W revolver. I would say in his case a 38 special was more than enough for the job. I have no idea what bullets were used but I would venture a guess that they were good ole' round nosed lead bullets.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1984_New_York_City_Subway_shooting

That, IMHO, says more about the shooter than it does the weapon.
 
Gunfights don't work like target shooting matches. Statistically, he who puts the most shots on target the quickest wins the fight. More shots equals more probability that one will land in the sweet spot. There's also something to be said for suppressive fire. You may very well indeed want to spray a few rounds to buy yourself enough time to dive for cover. There are also cases like the guy who got shot 30 times by police and was still shooting back right up until that last bullet that finally got him. I saw the xray for that and many of those rounds were in the center mass, just shy of the heart. There's definitely no one saying marksmanship isn't vital, but good marksmanship isn't a replacement for firepower.



That, IMHO, says more about the shooter than it does the weapon.
What was he shot with? A 9? also would like to know what type of bullett it was, "so as to make sure I don't have any" lol, I can't see 30 shots from any of the 3 or 5 main calibers we use, not killing anyone after a third of that amount at best unless he was snorting pure adrennaline, and had no organs. I have seen a guy who was shot 5 times with a 45, and lived. He was in the Colombian army, and they were through and through shots of 45 ball. I thought that was unusual, let alone 30.
 
What was he shot with? A 9? also would like to know what type of bullett it was, "so as to make sure I don't have any" lol, I can't see 30 shots from any of the 3 or 5 main calibers we use, not killing anyone after a third of that amount at best unless he was snorting pure adrennaline, and had no organs. I have seen a guy who was shot 5 times with a 45, and lived. He was in the Colombian army, and they were through and through shots of 45 ball. I thought that was unusual, let alone 30.

.40s, maybe some 9s. Then some .223 on top of that. Don't quote me on this, but I believe the ammo was primarily Speer. But it wasn't a failure of caliber or bullet. It was just a failure of the shooters to put the bullets into the heart or head. He was behind cover so they couldn't see him very clearly. If that had been a situation involving a lone officer he would have been very glad to have all 15 rounds and every spare mag on his belt, and probably not had much ammo left after the whole thing was said and done. Keep in mind that was 30 shots they found in the guy, not counting the ones that didn't hit. If they said how many rounds had actually been fired I can't remember, but you can extrapolate that it was probably a lot.
 
That, IMHO, says more about the shooter than it does the weapon.

You are correct. I am sure you have heard it said "Its the Indian, not the arrow". So he was armed with a 5 shot snub and stopped 4 attackers. Since he didn't kill anybody some might see this as a failure. I don't. He got the attackers off of him and lived to tell the tale. And I think this is a good example of a 38 caliber gun doing what it was supposed to do. Protect the owner.
 
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