Is a 357 mag snub worth it?

[MCgunner]

Old Fuff says:

jim640:

I wouldn't argue with you, but the fact is that there are a fair number of folks that can keep their shots in the K-zone of a B-27 silhouette target at 100 yards using a snubby. And they can do it consistently. In my younger days I was one of them, and I'd often demonstrate just to put the myth to rest that a snubby wasn't anything but a belly gun.

Yep, can do some amazing shooting with a J frame snubby. Helps to have either a really smooth DA or the ability to COCK the thing for a good SA shot, something tough for a 640 to accomplish. I prefer a hammer on my snubby, even pocket carried. I ain't gonna shoot in a pocket, too close to my family's jewels down there, and I put my thumb over the hammer on the draw instinctively which eliminates snags. I probably get that habit from all my years with a single action revolver.

 

[Golddog]

Grips matter. Only Godzilla could shoot .357's regularly from a J frame wearing wood boot grips. Pachmayr Compacs make a huge difference, at least on a steel 2" Model 60. They're also bigger and weigh more.

Triggers matter, too. J frame DA pulls (and who shoots SA during a close-in surprise attack from a predator?) are generally inferior to DA pulls from a K frame. Colt and Ruger DA triggers feel inferior to both, for me.

Dress matters. While K frames are more shootable, they require holsters. With winter clothing, that makes them hard to access in an emergency. Steel J frames, on the other hand, can ride in a coat pocket, making them quicker to get at in cold climes.

The upshot, since I think .357's make a big difference for defense: a steel 2" 60-14 goes with me in winter, unless I'm in a jacket that lets me get at a concealable shoulder or IWB rig quickly and efficiently. Then I'll take a snub 66.

People who carry all day have different issues. After six or eight hours, the weight of a K frame probably gets really old, regardless of holster quality.

 

[SWMAN]

I carry a S&W 36 using .38 special +P 135 grain Gold Dot HPs, especially made for short barrels. While I have a 4" 686 I shoot full house rounds through, and a Ruger Police Service 4" I equate to a "K" frame, I use rubber grips on both to absorb recoil. I'm not a real fan of shooting .357 mags through "J" frames. I'm comfortable using the 36 and my choice of ammo if I need to "get the job done".

 

[MCgunner]

I know there's few if any actual gun fights at extended range in the CCW scenario, but hey, the guns are capable. If someone tells me the gun is not intended to be accurate more'n a few feet, the classic "belly gun", I just figure they can't shoot. I know that most snubs will put 5 rounds into 3" at 25 yards for my old worn out eyes, that's 12 MOA for ME. Hitting a 12" gong at a hundred yards should be no problem so long as I figure out the proper elevation and a really good shooter with better eyes could, no doubt, to a lot better. Whether this sort of accuracy is necessary with a snub is arguable, but there's no doubt the guns are capable of it. For me, personally, this sort of accuracy means I can hit a rabbit at 20 yards. My 3" Rossi M68 shoots 2" groups at 25 yards, an inch more sight radius, and my 3" .357 Taurus M66 will shoot near 1" at that range, better sights, maybe just slightly better accuracy. It'll put 5 rounds of 140 grain Speer .357 into 1.5" which translates to 6 MOA, pretty useful in the field if not the concrete jungle. That matters probably only to me, though.

People who carry all day have different issues. After six or eight hours, the weight of a K frame probably gets really old, regardless of holster quality.

About 8 hours is my limit. The smaller gun in a pocket can ride there forever and doesn't bother me. Good point about getting to the gun through winter wear, though it ain't often all that cold down here. I like pocket carry because I can walk along with my hand on my gun, MUCH faster on the draw than from IWB even with just a T shirt on. Pocket carry is just SO much more practical for me. Even on my off days when I can carry IWB, when I get home I often find myself taking it off for a break. The pocket gun stays there, no problem. The whole idea is to have it with you 24/7 if you're going to rely on it for defense. I ain't likely to need it at home, but you just never know.

Personally, though, I have a preference for my little compact 9mm auto to a .38 or .357 snub for pocket carry. It spits a 115 grain Hornady XTP JHP out at 1260 fps, pretty respectable even in .357 magnum company when that .357 has a 2" tube. It's about as powerful as a .357 2" gun, yet it's much more controllable and has none of the gigantic muzzle flash of the magnum round in a short tube. It's DAO, so it's basically a small, flat, hammerless 14 ounce revolver with 11 rounds on tap. It's pretty danged accurate, too, for self defense out to about 50 yards. It's not quite as accurate, about 3.5" groups at 25 yards, compared to my snub, but I ain't sweatin' a half inch. The little gun rides in the front pocket of my jeans. I can draw and fire on a 3 yard target with a center mass hit in under a second. I can't do that from IWB.

 

[enoch_zembecowicz]

Taurus 605

When I do carry I carry my Taurus 605. I realize the short barrel keeps the .357 round from reaching full speed, but there's still more energy there than with a .38.
First of all it is not fun to shoot, but that's not why I own it. The recoil is pretty intense, but it's still controllable. My wrist usually hurts the next day after practicing with it.
I'd suggest you borrow or rent a .357 snub and try it for yourself. That way if you buy one you'll know exactly what you're getting into.

 

[ghostdoc]

Another vote for the SP101. I had mine worked over by Marc at Gemini. I shoot it better than my Sig 226 on some days. Getting the draw clip for it since it's most comfy Mexican style in the small of the back. Absolutely worth it. It only took 4 holsters to make the decision. That was not worth it. Merry Christmas Doc

 

[Greg8098]

Glock 33

I think this weapon seriously outperforms and conceals better than a snub-nose .357. You will get more MV and ME and nearly twice the rounds. The little subcompact .357 sig definetely has a nice little pop,........more like BOOM to it.

Don't shoot it without earplugs!

 

[chipp]

I have an airlite in .357. I love it. Thing is I knew buying it that I would carry it with plus p. and a .357 last. I've read that a .357 loaded with 38s isn't as accurate as a 38 with 38. Don't think I shoot good enough to worry about that. I also opt for saftey slugs or mag safe ammo. They don't kick as much in the light guns.
I rack my brain trying to think of senarios where i would have to shoot
further than 25 ft. The senarios that go through my mind are always close up and I want the gun in my pocket so it doeant as easily end up in someone elses hand. I've seen and heard of too many poeple having there guns taken off of them. If I have enough distance, Im outta there.
Does anyone know if there is a thread on senerios? or even how to spell it?

 

[Gary A]

Greg8098 - wouldn't the time it takes to put in your earplugs seriously slow down any self-defense response?

 

[Greg8098]

Yes it would, but why would you worry about your hearing when your butt is on the line . The average self - defense scenario consists of an average of 3 to 5 rounds, so I seriously doubt that would be enough to destroy your eardrums. On the other hand 50 - 100 rounds in an indoor range, or even outdoors for that matter, could have some lasting affect.

 

[up_onus]

Most people seem to forget...
Statistically - MOST GUNFIGHTS ARE WITHIN 7 YARDS.
and thats WHEN there is a GUNFIGHT.
And, I can Hit my target within 7 yards! At least while I am moving...
and I cant say for a moving target.

OF COURSE A BIGGER GUN IS BETTER IN SOME REGARDS!!!!!!!
but, the first rule of a gunfight is "bring a gun". Mine goes EVERYWHERE without fail - even indoors...why??? because I forget its there, and I dont need to take it out of my holster when I get home....How many of you can say that...?

Cosmoline - Just because you can only shoot 25 rounds a day...lets see...thats 100 rounds a week...5200 rounds a year...hmmm, I HOPE thats enough practice.

This is a personal preference - and YES, ONCE AGAIN BIGGER IS BETTER, there is no arguing that fact, but having a gun is MOST important, I dont care if its a 22, sure as hell beats my pocket knife.

 

[wuchak]

Cosmoline - Just because you can only shoot 25 rounds a day...lets see...thats 100 rounds a week...5200 rounds a year...hmmm, I HOPE thats enough practice.

I didn't know Reno had gone to a four day week! : )

 

[BlindJustice]

I have two S&W .357 Magnums.

Model 60-15 3" Bbl. Len. ( full len. ejector rod)
Stainless Steel frame, Cyl. & Bbl.
Plain Ramp Front/Adj. Rear
Stock Grips which are full grips
for 3 finger - copy of uncle Mike's?

It's a bedside gun at present with
a waffle cooking on carry lether. I like
the linear DA trigger pull. I plan to use
Sub-Sonic loads.

Load(s):
.38 Spcl +P 125 gr. Speer Gold JHP
( I saw a review - Vel. = 1,000 FPS 4" Bbl.

Some Muzzle Flash, controllable recoil,
for repeat shots

.38 SPcl. 125 gr. Hornady XTP JHP
( rated @ 1,000 FPS as well.)
Have yet to test these but much
better price than Speer GD

I am shopping for the new offer for
SHort Barreled revos. marked SB
.38 Spcl +P 135 gr. Speer Gold DOt
on the CCI/Speer webiste there's a
ballistic test where the 1 7/8ths = 865 FPS
2 1/4ths, = 910 FPS & 3" = 985 fps

I also have the
S&W 686P 4" Bbl. LEn. at 39 oz.

I am getting used to the recoil, muzzle
flash, etc. First time at the range I had
some Guy Hogue un-checkered grips
on it that didn't work with

WW 125 gr. JHP

I also have
Federal Hi-Shok @ 1,500 FPS
hornady 140 gr., 157 gr. & 180 gr. XTP JHP
PMC 158 gr. JSP @ 1,250 FPS

Next time, at the range I'll have the
new grips Guy Hogue Compact K/L with
FInger grooves & checkered Rosewood.

I am happy with the stock MOdel 60 grips
I chose the 60 so that I can always have
the option for the occaisional Mag loads
by choice or heat of the moment.

That said, My fav. Revolver is my 625
with a 5" Bbl. - The Lew Horton Model
25 with a 3" Bbl. Len. with wood grips on
the square butt frame is tempting & probably
in my top three for next gun to get. I also
shoot the 625 the best.

 

[Rexster]

I don't want to type a book, but the .357 is worth it to me, in my SP101 snubbies. Unlike some, who have set aside the heavier weapons in favor of light weight, my S&W M430, a Performance Center variant of the M642, sits in the safe most of the time, and my M342 was sold off, while I have one or more SP101 snubbies with me virtually all the time, 24/7. I also usually have a larger .357 sixgun with me when outside the house, so ammo compatibilty is certainly a major reason for the little guns to be .357, but not the only reason.

 

[Cron]

Proper grip selection makes a BIG difference for J frames. Boot grips are fine for carry but a literal pain to shoot. Rubber grips are fine for outdoors types with tough skin but office types could do better with smooth wood grips. They don't abrade the skin like rubber. Especially with magnum loads.
My choice is S&W round butt combat grips. They're a little large for carry but still better than an SP101. They don't drag on clothing as much either. They're discontinued but still available new if you look around. My wife can handle my model 60 with 125gr hp's with little difficulty, though we usually keep Speer 135 gr 38 specials loaded in it.
Here's a slightly fuzzy picture:

 

[fastbolt]

Well, a few things have changed since I last posted in this (resurrected) thread ...

I picked up a M&P 340 Centennial and 2 1/2" K-frame Magnum.

I tried several different Magnum loads in the M&P 340. I discovered a couple that exhibited indications of bullet-jump in my gun, in my hands, and a couple that didn't.

Long & short of it? While I could consistently qualify with Magnum ammunition in the little J-frame, I'm carrying .38 Spl +P in it, anyway. I simply shoot it faster and more controllably with .38 Spl +P loads.

The short-barreled K-frame? Well, after doing so much practicing with the J-frames, it made full-power Magnum loads seem downright pleasant. It made me remember why I enjoyed carrying .357 magnum revolvers for so many years as off-duty weapons ... notwithstanding the weight factor, that is.

My Ruger SP-101 DAO has enjoyed more time out of the safe, being used for practice with Magnum loads. The practical accuracy of the little Magnum snub turned the heads of a couple of the other instructors, too. It's weight still gets it sidelined and left in the safe, in favor of lighter guns, however. My lighter J-frames simply offer me a better compromise, especially when I'm out and about for the entire day and evening.

Now, I'm thinking about ordering one of the new S&W M40's. Although I've been considering adding a 640 or 649 to my collection, simply because they're chambered in .357 Magnum, I'd likely end up carrying +P ammunition, anyway. Might as well succumb to the desire to own one of the new lemon-squeezers. The nickel looks good.

Dunno.

The thing is that while I appreciate the balance, heft, controllability & inherent accuracy of the K-frame Magnums, the balance of the 'compromise' I find most useful, for me, is having a defensive revolver that's light to carry, able to be slipped into the zippered pocket of my motorcycle jacket, or one of my 'smoking jackets' for a trip to the cigar lounge.

When I consider carrying my SP-101 on my hip, I generally instead just 'bump up' to one of my compact semiauto pistols.

I spent a number of years lugging around full-size Magnum revolvers as off-duty weapons, and I have little desire to do so again ... but that's just me.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

I've never shot a man in civilian life, but I have in combat.

My rule of thumb, is "Expect a 90% performance degradation in combat." And if you look at statistics on police shooting, that seems to be about right -- cops who can put every shot in the kill zone on the range seem to miss a lot when the chips are down.

So I say, shoot a lot. Shoot under realistic conditions -- using the ammo you carry. And expect to get about 10% effectiveness.

I find many people can't shoot full-house .357 loads in snubbies -- they start developing bad habits like flinching and jerking. With practice, they get worse, not better.

 

[DawgFvr]

Sounds like excellent advice to me...I'll take it to heart...pun intended.

 

[FranklyTodd]

I have an M&P340 13.3oz .357 with Crimson Trace grips - love it, pocket carry it effortlessly every day. YMMV, but don't listen to the naysayers - I've had this debate too many times, and many that criticize it have never shot (or carried) one.

I've never heard of a 50 yard self-defense shot, let alone 100yds... I can't imagine a scenario where I couldn't bug outta there at that distance!

 

[Vern Humphrey]

I've never heard of a 50 yard self-defense shot, let alone 100yds...

The issue is not making a 50 or 100-yard self-defense shot. The issue is making a 5-yard self-defense shot, for real, when the chips are down. When you look at actual police shootings, you see they miss a lot more than they hit under those circumstances.

As I have said, expect a 90% performance degradation in actual combat -- those easy groups you made in the kill zone on the range are not going to be repeated when you are under extreme pressure.

 

[Pistol Toter]

Is a 357 mag snub worth it?

In a word YES !!

 

[Anonymous Coward]

Disclaimer: I do not own, nor have I shot a snubby .357. J-Frame.

However...I would prefer a .357 over a .38 special for two reasons:

1) The longer barrel (2 1/8" vs. 1 7/8") comes with a longer ejector rod, which makes for more reliable case extraction.

2) In the unlikely event I can't find any .38 special ammunition (TEOTAWKI, heh), I know I can load .357 mag in it.

Those are minor considerations, but hey.

More to the point, would I want to shoot .357 out of a J-Frame? No, and heck no. It's bad enough in a K-frame.

 

[Walkalong]

Sure like my 2 1/2" 686. It shoots very well. It is a bit harder to shoot well than my 4" 686 or my GP-100, but what do you expect.

 

[FranklyTodd]

The issue is not making a 50 or 100-yard self-defense shot. The issue is making a 5-yard self-defense shot, for real, when the chips are down.

I totally agree. I don't remember who, but somebody above was saying you need to be able to make those long, windage and drop adjusted shots with your CCW piece (or almost as silly - hit a running squirrel). I was just pointing out that neither of those shots are self-defense shots. If the BG is running away like a squirrel, you aren't allowed to shoot him in the back, and if he's 100yds away, you also probably couldn't justify the shot in any but the most contrived scenario. Practicing like that might be fun, but I would not consider it self-defense practice. If you want to practice under pressure, enter a shooting competition, or better yet, take a boxing class - Learning to keep your cool with someone trying to drill you in the melon is good for you!

That's my only point...

 

[shane638]

I have a 3" M60 357. I like the DPX 38 in it. I don't know how much velocity I lose in it compared to firing out of a 38 chambered M60. This load does close to 1100 fps in my M638. I was hoping to get another 50-100fps out of the extra barrel length. I love the J's in all shapes and sizes. I think they are some of the most useful self defense guns for civilians.