Is a 9mm an adequate Colorado woods gun?

[jlbraun]

Was recently doing some backpacking in Northern Colorado in a pretty isolated area (with a pretty girl that likes guns, but I digress). Major threats for that area are black bears (rare), cougars, feral dogs, and of course the two-legged ones. No grizzlies, and if a moose decides you're a threat you're pretty much screwed anyway without a serious long gun. I carried a CZ P-01 in 9mm and a spare magazine in a Safepacker.

I'm planning on backpacking a lot more this summer (with same pretty girl), hence the question.

Thanks in advance.

 

[The-Fly]

9mm would be fine for cats and feral dogs. For a bear, you really need a 44mag at a minimum. I usually carry my 357 6" (you know the one) loaded with 158gr gold dots when out in the boonies, but know its not enough if i ran into a bear.

 

[shooter58]

While employed as a Deputy Sheriff in the California Sierras, I was forced to kill a black bear (long story..no other options) with a 4" .357. It did the job, but took 5 rounds (delivered rather quickly). I would say that a .357 woulld be adequate for most eventuallities. Though, I would feel better with a 45 LC or 44 Mag. I definately would not count on a 9mm. It's just too small a projectile for something like black bear.

 

[<SLV>]

I live in Northern Colorado and I spend a lot of time in the mountains (Poudre Canyon mostly). I always carry my 7 round Taurus .357. I think this is enough to handle black bears and mountain lions. I have a Kahr 9mm carry gun, but I wouldn't consider it to be big enough for possible mountain encounters in these parts. Plus, I'd rather have a wheel gun in those situations.

 

[jlbraun]

It's just too small a projectile for something like black bear.

I'm aware of that. However, the temperament of black bears is recognized as being very timid and non-confrontational, in contrast to the very dangerous temperament of grizzlies. Black bear attacks on humans are almost unheard of.

From http://www.suite101.com/article.cfm/bears/17275/2

Colorado has had 2 fatalities in the last 30 years; one involving a predatory black bear killing and partially devouring a sleeping camper, the other involving an angry bear breaking into a trailer after a man who had shot him. The older incident (near Durango) with the camper involved an old and starving male with badly worn teeth that was probably fairly desperate.

If I feel like I'm going to venture into AK, I would definitely get a .44Mag.

 

[Dr.Rob]

People are far more dangerous than any wildlife you may encounter.

Enjoy the backpacking with the pretty girl and don't worry about the sidearm so much.

 

[cbsbyte]

Black bears would be the least of my worries. I have seen black bears many times in the woods in New England, and have yet to see one give a **** that I was there in his domain. Around here they are so use to seeing humans, they basically careless about us and go about their business. Though god help you if you ever get between a mother and her cubs. I am not saying one should not be careful with black bears, they are a wild animal. But most of the time they are more afraid of you, than you are of them. I have seen a few bears that where somewhere between 350-500lbs. I would believe a .357 Mag would be more than enough for most BBs in the Northeast, though out west a 44 mag would be a better idea.

 

[Ala Dan]

I agree with my friend Dr. Rob when he said, "people are far more
dangerous"~!

A good, quality 9m/m should be able to disperse them; but for the big bears
I would want something with a little more punch~! Say, like a .44 mag
or .454 Casull~!

 

[Dr.Rob]

Well my 357 snubby with a 125 grain hot load is about the SAME in a chronograph to a 124 gr 9mm...

It's really about how much wieght you feel like carrying. The Safepacker is GREAT!

 

[recover90]

If you are going to carry the 9mm make sure you have good quailty ammo.There are lots of different ammo choices for the 9mm look for +P or +P+ . If the 9mm is all you have its better than nothing. Shot placement will be a big factor, It would be better to have a larger caliber with more energy

 

[jlbraun]

Ammo is 9mm Federal HST 147gr.

 

[CJ]

Everyone has missed the obvious. To properly answer your question, we need a picture of the pretty girl who likes guns!

But to answer, I recently moved to Colorado and had to make a similar choice (teeny new wife who looks like mountain lion bait). I ended up choosing to go with a lightweight, compact 9mm. Odds are, I'll never have to use it, but will always be happy carrying it. Long backpacking trips with the extra weight of a larger .357 or such would have me second-guessing whether I wanted to actually bring it along, lured in by 'I've never needed it before'.

The one person I've met who DID have a black bear encounter (walking her dogs, ran into some cubs and a slightly upset mama bear...the dogs promptly turned tail) was fortunate to have someone with a shotgun notice her predicament. The sound of the firing gun was more than enough to scare even the concerned mama bear away. Worst case, I'd rather have the other 10 shots of 9mm that I had with me than 6 rounds of .357 back in my safe!

 

[JCaraker]

+1 zillion to CJ


JL, have you considered a mag of high velocity FMJ (NATO FMJ comes to mind). In my humble opinion and limited understanding, penetration is a high priority when engaging dangerous game with tough hide. If the area is remote enough, I would keep the CZ(best guns ever) loaded with the FMJ in the woods and swap out to JHP when in the car.

 

[glockman19]

When camping I take my .357 with 158 grain. I'm not sure you want a hollow point with a bear or other wild animal I think penetration is more important that expansion. I may be wrong.

 

[Zundfolge]

People are far more dangerous than any wildlife you may encounter.

This is true. But depending on where you're hiking, your more likely to run across feral dogs than any other wildlife (bears usually hear you coming a LONG way off and scram before you get there).

I used the excuse of "backwoods gun" to buy my S&W 29 but to be honest I pack a .40 in the woods (just like in town).

I've talked to a guy that had to shoot a bear and he had a 7mm and felt under gunned (took several shots to bring the angry bear down ... found a cub about 1/8th mile from where it happened).

 

[jlbraun]

To properly answer your question, we need a picture of the pretty girl who likes guns!

Actually, it's kind of funny. She has a nice scoped rifle in .243Win for deer hunting and varminting, and loves target shooting, but hadn't had much experience with pistols. I didn't tell her what was in the Safepacker until she started thinking about wild animals. I said:

"Well, what's in here would be OK for cougars and such, and I'm not really worried about black bears because they're kind of timid."

"That's a gun?"

"Yes, I brought it for..."

"Oh, don't worry, I'm fine with it. That actually makes me feel really safe! Can I see it?"

So I unload it and hand it to her with the slide open.

"This is cool. (schick-shack) We should go target shooting sometime."

 

[benEzra]

I'd carry the 9mm. Black bears aren't the biggest worry, and I'd rather have a 15-round 9mm than a 6-round .44 magnum if confronted with multiple feral dogs.

The 9mm is also better for defense against human predators, which would be my biggest worry, and IMHO it's probably sufficient for the big cats.

 

[mavracer]

wouldn't change a thing.ammo sounds fine for your needs.147 penatrate pretty good in a 9mm.in the unlikely last ditch situation with a bear think 10 guage with really big buckshot applied sequentuly

 

[azredhawk44]

Plan sounds good!

Lots of folks initially think kinetic energy over bullet weight (typically lighter bullets moving REALLY fast have more KE than heavier bullets of the same chambering), but you have the 147gr bullets selected (which penetrate far better than light bullets). Not sure if the ones you specified are hollowpoints or expanding FMJ of some sort... I would suggest FMJ only, and 147gr.

 

[Schutzen]

I looked in to the bear situation several years ago when I thought I would be in Alaska for an extended time. It didn't pan out, but I believe the research should still be valid. I settled on a .45LC with a 4-5/8" barrel, but a .44 Mag or similar cartridge should do just as well. The bears in Alaska are larger than the black bears in the Lower 48, but the Rockies still have Grizzlies. I believe you biggest concern is trying to limit you wilderness forays to the times of the month you girl friend is not in menstruation. Take a good look at the publicized reports of bear attacks in the Lower 48. Many of the attacks are on young women. Some of the reports will indicate the women were menstruating, but I suspect this is omitted from many more reports. The plain truth is predators are attracted by the scent of blood. Eliminate all possible attractants and your 4-legged predator problem should be very minimal.

 

[earplug]

I like the FMJ option for bear.
I wonder what the lawman used on the bear with his .357? If it was the people stopper 125 grain JHP it may have had a problem getting to the bears vitals.
Of course people in the woods are what bothers me. Weigh your chances of what you might run into.
Does you pretty girl friend pack A weapon?

 

[Redneck with a 40]

I only take my Taurus Tracker 357 magnum, loaded with my handloads....158 grain jacketed soft point on top of 16.6 grains of 296. This load gives me 1450 fps out of my 4 inch barrel, 730 ft lbs of energy. This load will do the job against any animal out here in Colorado, bears included. I'm not taking a pee-shooter out into the woods, aka 9mm.

 

[Plink]

I think if bear worries are on your mind, you might look into a 10mm. They're not the do all and be all of handguns, but they weigh about what a 9mm does for carry purposes and with good ammo, they pack quite a wallup. I'm always keeping my eye on the 10mm market for that very reason. I haven't found a light weight one that I like yet.

 

[Brian Williams]

Yes, a 9x32R loaded with hardcast 158gr LSWC.

 

[Dr.Rob]

This is Colorado, not Alaska... our black bears aren't the monsters you find back east in PA/WVa.

As for the safepacker...

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=243922