nekwah
member
I had always heard that the bolt action is the most accurate and assumed it to be correct. I wondered if anyone else had a view on the subject.
Is bolt action the most accurate
- Thread starter nekwah
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Float Pilot
Member
Generally speaking yes. There are exceptions to every rule.
Shawnee
member
"...the bolt action is the most accurate "
That is accepted as a general rule. Exceptions to it are not particularly rare. I think that "rule" got started because most of the first smokeless, higher-velocity cartridges were brought out in bolt guns and the older cartridges most often found in the non-bolt guns of the day were less accurate. Today, a "modern" (accurate) caliber like the .243 can be found in any action type and will likely provide accuracy that exceeds the needs of the hunter/informal target shooter.
One also has to understand that the term "most accurate" does not mean the bolt-action is 50 times more accurate than other action types. Usually the accuracy difference between a bolt and some other action type is not too significant except maybe to a target shooter hoping to put all their shots in the same hole.
Often the semi-autos show lesser accuracy compared to bolts but, then, the Weatherby Mark XXII .22 rimfire semi-auto is widely known for being exceptionally accurate for a "sporter" rifle.
HTH
That is accepted as a general rule. Exceptions to it are not particularly rare. I think that "rule" got started because most of the first smokeless, higher-velocity cartridges were brought out in bolt guns and the older cartridges most often found in the non-bolt guns of the day were less accurate. Today, a "modern" (accurate) caliber like the .243 can be found in any action type and will likely provide accuracy that exceeds the needs of the hunter/informal target shooter.
One also has to understand that the term "most accurate" does not mean the bolt-action is 50 times more accurate than other action types. Usually the accuracy difference between a bolt and some other action type is not too significant except maybe to a target shooter hoping to put all their shots in the same hole.
Often the semi-autos show lesser accuracy compared to bolts but, then, the Weatherby Mark XXII .22 rimfire semi-auto is widely known for being exceptionally accurate for a "sporter" rifle.
HTH
kcmarine
Member
For most uses, yes. Higher- end ARs can compete with some mid- level bolts, though.
doc2rn
Member
Thats like comparing a Marlin mod 60 to a CZ. You can get lemons in both but for the most part the mod 60 is the champ right out of the box. Modern technology made the micro-groove barrel the one to beat as we often hear about.
Jamyatunes
Member
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All other things being equal, yes.
There are many factors that effect rifle accuracy, action type is one of them.
There are many factors that effect rifle accuracy, action type is one of them.
WardenWolf
member
That depends on many things, as has been stated. Technology tends to conquer all things, and both today's good semi's and today's good bolt actions will usually shoot better than even the "good" guns of 3 or 4 decades ago. Is a Mosin Nagant sniper more accurate than a Dragunov? Not really. Different guns, different eras, different production methods, different levels of quality control.
Fact is: for significantly less money, you can usuallly build a new gun, with a new scope, that will be better in every way than older classic firearms like the 60's and 70's Remington 700. Optics have improved, tolerances and production methods have improved. A lot of the "good old days" weren't so good, and a scope I got for $60 makes my father's classic Weaver scopes look like crap. The optical quality and magnification have just improved so much.
Off the shelf, today's guns will usually shoot better than even upgraded guns from decades past. This is true for both semi's and bolt actions. In many cases, semi's have surpassed the older bolt actions. While maybe not quite as accurate as a finely tuned modern bolt action, they may be at or above the level of excellence of those older guns. There's such a thing as "good enough". Once a semi reaches 1.5 MOA or less, it's probably a better choice in almost all circumstances since it allows for rapid followup shots without taking your hand off the trigger.
So it really boils down to what you can afford or are willing to pay. Compared to a bolt action, a comparable semi in the same caliber will usually cost you about 25% more (except when there's a panic. . .). Is that 25% worth it to get what is generally a more practical gun? To me it is. But if you just don't need it, you can always go with the cheaper gun.
Fact is: for significantly less money, you can usuallly build a new gun, with a new scope, that will be better in every way than older classic firearms like the 60's and 70's Remington 700. Optics have improved, tolerances and production methods have improved. A lot of the "good old days" weren't so good, and a scope I got for $60 makes my father's classic Weaver scopes look like crap. The optical quality and magnification have just improved so much.
Off the shelf, today's guns will usually shoot better than even upgraded guns from decades past. This is true for both semi's and bolt actions. In many cases, semi's have surpassed the older bolt actions. While maybe not quite as accurate as a finely tuned modern bolt action, they may be at or above the level of excellence of those older guns. There's such a thing as "good enough". Once a semi reaches 1.5 MOA or less, it's probably a better choice in almost all circumstances since it allows for rapid followup shots without taking your hand off the trigger.
So it really boils down to what you can afford or are willing to pay. Compared to a bolt action, a comparable semi in the same caliber will usually cost you about 25% more (except when there's a panic. . .). Is that 25% worth it to get what is generally a more practical gun? To me it is. But if you just don't need it, you can always go with the cheaper gun.
woodybrighton
member
serious target rifles are all bolt action and will out perform the majority of semi autos
http://world.guns.ru/sniper/sn15-e.htm something like this is the exception to the rule and was so expensive nobody brought them,
apart from a German swat team where they lie gathering dust. Bavaria not being a hot bed of urban warfare.
You could argue because we have these super sniper rifles nobody dares take us on
but if you get into serious paper punching its $$$$$$$$$$$$$$ for tiny improvements that will win matches but as everybody has similar kit its still down to the shooter.
even an AI and a military trained sniper won't cut it.
"if you got yourself a decent rifle and put in some serious practice you'd be quite good
"
http://world.guns.ru/sniper/sn15-e.htm something like this is the exception to the rule and was so expensive nobody brought them
,apart from a German swat team where they lie gathering dust. Bavaria not being a hot bed of urban warfare.
You could argue because we have these super sniper rifles nobody dares take us on
but if you get into serious paper punching its $$$$$$$$$$$$$$ for tiny improvements that will win matches but as everybody has similar kit its still down to the shooter.
even an AI and a military trained sniper won't cut it.
"if you got yourself a decent rifle and put in some serious practice you'd be quite good
"SeekHer
Member
Even amongst bolt actions there are levels of accuracy.
The vast majority of bench rest rifles are all single shot actions with solid bottoms as the shooters, rightfully, consider the opening for the magazine a liability as it vibrates and destroys the natural harmonics of the action which then produces losing groups.
Have you noticed that the new breed of tactical/technical rifles for police and military have no forearms or either wood or metal. Check out SIG, FN, Sako, Unique Alpine, CheyTac, Blaser etc. The reason is that the extra weight hanging down again vibrates and is one of the reasons that single shot rifles like the Ruger Nbr/ 1 aren’t as accurate as they can be.
The vast majority of bench rest rifles are all single shot actions with solid bottoms as the shooters, rightfully, consider the opening for the magazine a liability as it vibrates and destroys the natural harmonics of the action which then produces losing groups.
Have you noticed that the new breed of tactical/technical rifles for police and military have no forearms or either wood or metal. Check out SIG, FN, Sako, Unique Alpine, CheyTac, Blaser etc. The reason is that the extra weight hanging down again vibrates and is one of the reasons that single shot rifles like the Ruger Nbr/ 1 aren’t as accurate as they can be.
matt87
Member
The short answer to the original question is 'not necessarily' -- there are many variables involved. For instance a popular formal target-shooting discipline in my country is shot prone with an ironsighted smallbore (.22LR) rifle from 25 to 100 yards, with sub-MOA accuracy expected from the better shots. The market is dominated by one brand -- Anschutz. Their popular rifles are single-shot rear-locking bolt-actions with heavy barrels. However, a British rifle used to dominate, which was a small-action Martini design known as the BSA International. The company didn't move with the times and their rifles became unfashionable and stopped being produced, but they are just as mechanically accurate as a brand new Anschutz,, of which even the standard ones leave the factory with a test card showing a 1/4inch group at 100 meters -- under .25MOA.
Simple answer, there is nothing inherently accurate about a bolt-action.
Simple answer, there is nothing inherently accurate about a bolt-action.
Master Blaster
Member
Bolt actions are inherently more accurate, fewer moving parts, and tight repeatable mechanical lockup is the reason why. A bolt action can also have a lighter trigger than a semi, because there is no threat of hammer follow.
Fortner actions are a form of bolt action BTW and they can be extremely accurate as well.
Fortner actions are a form of bolt action BTW and they can be extremely accurate as well.
People are the greatest source of inaccuracy in shooting. When you eliminate the human, the most accurate rifles around are bolt actions.
I have witnessed F class shooters supporting their rifles on aluminum ground plates and heavy rests. These shooters hover over the stock, and only touch the trigger.
Still, as accurate as these rifles, human errors in windage, crossfires, still mess up scores.
In Highpower competition, where you have to hold the rifle standing, sitting prone, you will find that semi automatics are very competitive out to 300 yards. Two of the stages out to three hundred yards are timed rapid fire events. When you don’t have to roll around manipulating a bolt, you get more time to aim, and your score goes up. If a very good shooter’s hold is between ¼ MOA and ½ MOA, a good semi automatic will easily shoot inside the shooter’s holding error.
The bolt gun dominates long range. It is due to the superior trigger’s that bolt guns have and more powerful cartridges that bolt guns use.
I have obsevered many times while shooting highpower, wind judgement and luck have more influence on scores than equipment.
Extreme accuracy is only good if the shooter can hit the target. You can create any sport that one firearm type works best.
I have witnessed F class shooters supporting their rifles on aluminum ground plates and heavy rests. These shooters hover over the stock, and only touch the trigger.
Still, as accurate as these rifles, human errors in windage, crossfires, still mess up scores.
In Highpower competition, where you have to hold the rifle standing, sitting prone, you will find that semi automatics are very competitive out to 300 yards. Two of the stages out to three hundred yards are timed rapid fire events. When you don’t have to roll around manipulating a bolt, you get more time to aim, and your score goes up. If a very good shooter’s hold is between ¼ MOA and ½ MOA, a good semi automatic will easily shoot inside the shooter’s holding error.
The bolt gun dominates long range. It is due to the superior trigger’s that bolt guns have and more powerful cartridges that bolt guns use.
I have obsevered many times while shooting highpower, wind judgement and luck have more influence on scores than equipment.
Extreme accuracy is only good if the shooter can hit the target. You can create any sport that one firearm type works best.
ken22250
Member
it is true. the single shot rifle was always the accuracy enthusit/ competition shooters 1st choice until the 20's when shooters realized that the 1 piece stock of the bolt action is more ridged than that of the 2 pc single shot, which makes it stiffer, and thusly more accurate, but for practical sporting purpose thier is little of any noticable diffrence, until you reach extreme range(i.e. 1000yds+)
ken
ken
SeekHer
Member
Anschutz has always and will always dominate the competitive market not because of being that much more accurate but because they devote themselves only to target air and rimfire guns, probably 70% to 80% target models and they have the facilities to produce many more guns in a day then the likes of Walther, Feinwerkbau or Steyr etc., who also make smallbore firearms and especially the small, near custom houses like Tesro, Hammerli etc. can ever hope to make.
I love Anschutz and am very happy with the multitude of air and rimfire, target and sport shooting guns that we own by them! That being said, I started competitive shooting in 1961 with a Walther rifle to compete with, it did me very well (Pan Am Games & Olympics berths) so I still shoot them and love them. When our indoor shooting range at school switched from smallbore to air guns and the gun club added air, we followed suite but we’ve bought and in many cases like far better the makes of Feinwerkbau, Tesro, Steyr and of course my Walther rifles and at that quality and price point, I can assure you that it is only aesthetics, balance, feel and especially colour that will make one person buy one over another, because it sure isn’t accuracy! They will all shoot to the sme POA and will produce 1,000-100x targets day in and day out as long as you're capable of doing it!
I collect single shot rifles, almost exclusively drop handle falling blocks, and have six of the BSA rifles and we’ve shot them against the target bolt guns many times and often, especially with one rifle, would beat the bolt actions. This is one person shooting one of each and competing against themselves as well as the others.
The problem with any split stocked rifle--semi, pump, falling block is the piece of wood/plastic hanging off the front of the action—it causes excessive vibration and larger group sizes unless properly secured. Yes, you can get small groups with them at short ranges--100 yards and under--but they get much bigger, quite rapidly once you get passed the 150 to 200 yard distance.
Yes, I know of Adobe Walls and some of the other legendary long shots with the Sharps and by the other rifle makers but those are the exceptions, out of the norm, as most buff’ hunters wanted to get their “stand” going close in for lots of reasons but primarily accuracy and killing power.
I mentioned the new style of tactical rifle, that with the whole barrel is exposed--I guess what you’d describe as extreme free floating! All for the simple fact they shoot better without the forend. You don’t need it to prevent your hands from being burnt--its only purpose by the way, as you’re shooting off a support or bipod and you'll usualy take a BR shooter’s position of the off arm down and touching (or not) your other elbow.
Lots of the shooting clubs here still use the BSA as a beginners training rifle because of the safety factor and they came with the child’s stock from the factory and at the ranges being shot 25yard they’re more then accurate enough to shoot 100-10X day in and day out.
Also, having not being made might have something to do with the popularity of the SS over the BA. Most people hadn't heard of bolt actions until they encountered them during The Spanish American War for the Americans and The 2nd Boer War for the British and they never gained much favour until well after the First World War and then there came the Depression. The heyday of the bolt action really didn't begin until after The Korean War. Up until then the lever action was the most popular hunting rifle in North America.
Of course, some were being sold and being experimented with, changes to the Mauser action common to all of them and wildcatting the .30/06 and the 6.5mm, 7mm and 8mm rounds but nowhere near the amount that was done after WW2 and finally after Korea when the military really got rid of their surplus arms.
I love Anschutz and am very happy with the multitude of air and rimfire, target and sport shooting guns that we own by them! That being said, I started competitive shooting in 1961 with a Walther rifle to compete with, it did me very well (Pan Am Games & Olympics berths) so I still shoot them and love them. When our indoor shooting range at school switched from smallbore to air guns and the gun club added air, we followed suite but we’ve bought and in many cases like far better the makes of Feinwerkbau, Tesro, Steyr and of course my Walther rifles and at that quality and price point, I can assure you that it is only aesthetics, balance, feel and especially colour that will make one person buy one over another, because it sure isn’t accuracy! They will all shoot to the sme POA and will produce 1,000-100x targets day in and day out as long as you're capable of doing it!
I collect single shot rifles, almost exclusively drop handle falling blocks, and have six of the BSA rifles and we’ve shot them against the target bolt guns many times and often, especially with one rifle, would beat the bolt actions. This is one person shooting one of each and competing against themselves as well as the others.
The problem with any split stocked rifle--semi, pump, falling block is the piece of wood/plastic hanging off the front of the action—it causes excessive vibration and larger group sizes unless properly secured. Yes, you can get small groups with them at short ranges--100 yards and under--but they get much bigger, quite rapidly once you get passed the 150 to 200 yard distance.
Yes, I know of Adobe Walls and some of the other legendary long shots with the Sharps and by the other rifle makers but those are the exceptions, out of the norm, as most buff’ hunters wanted to get their “stand” going close in for lots of reasons but primarily accuracy and killing power.
I mentioned the new style of tactical rifle, that with the whole barrel is exposed--I guess what you’d describe as extreme free floating! All for the simple fact they shoot better without the forend. You don’t need it to prevent your hands from being burnt--its only purpose by the way, as you’re shooting off a support or bipod and you'll usualy take a BR shooter’s position of the off arm down and touching (or not) your other elbow.
Lots of the shooting clubs here still use the BSA as a beginners training rifle because of the safety factor and they came with the child’s stock from the factory and at the ranges being shot 25yard they’re more then accurate enough to shoot 100-10X day in and day out.
Also, having not being made might have something to do with the popularity of the SS over the BA. Most people hadn't heard of bolt actions until they encountered them during The Spanish American War for the Americans and The 2nd Boer War for the British and they never gained much favour until well after the First World War and then there came the Depression. The heyday of the bolt action really didn't begin until after The Korean War. Up until then the lever action was the most popular hunting rifle in North America.
Of course, some were being sold and being experimented with, changes to the Mauser action common to all of them and wildcatting the .30/06 and the 6.5mm, 7mm and 8mm rounds but nowhere near the amount that was done after WW2 and finally after Korea when the military really got rid of their surplus arms.
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