Is Colt Dead?

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Yes! Colt no longer cares about civillian sales because military contracts can easliy keep their pockets full. Their quality has gone waaaay down and now people just pay for the name on the gun.

Really? Care to tell us more about your theory regarding why Colt doesn't care about the civilian market, or are you just repeating what you heard at the gun store? You do know that Colt no longer has the exclusive patent rights to manufacture the M4 carbine for the U.S. government? I'm guessing that now would be as good a time as any for Colt to be trying to sell as many guns to the civilian market as possible.

I'm also interested to hear specifics about how Colt's quality is getting worse, considering my own personal experience and anecdotal evidence from various internet forums seems to point in the opposite direction. What was wrong with your Colt?
 
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Many of you are still talking like its still 2001.

I could write a page on how Colt has been making a comeback since standing on the edge of oblivion but its pretty obvious if you are actually paying attention to what Colt is doing and has been doing.
 
Allow, yes. But why switch? Colt's window of opportunity for proving that people should want to re-learn DA shooting, just so they can buy a Colt, is completely shut now.

True. Colt allowed the window to shut -- there are so many urban legends about the inferiority of Colts that they'd be swimming upstream if they started producing revolvers again.
Besides, even back in Colt's heyday as a DA revolver maker, competitors didn't care for the Colt DA trigger all that much.
That's because Colt had already fallen far behind in the revolver business when double-action shooting became standard. A generation earlier, Colt might have won against S&W. But there just weren't that many Colts being purchased by police departments any more.
 
I could write a page on how Colt has been making a comeback since standing on the edge of oblivion but its pretty obvious if you are actually paying attention to what Colt is doing and has been doing.

Maybe some would listen, but so many won't. There are lots of folks that would rather make comments about Colt's union goons, and blah blah.

Keep in mind there is another side to the union debate. If another manufacturer like Kimber or Springfield had stood up to the union like Colt's management did in the '80s culminating in a 4 year strike, people here would be cheering them on for fighting the good fight against the union "goons." But because Colt did it I guess that doesn't count. :rolleyes: In fact it was the strike that did much to cripple Colt and lead them down the road to bankruptcy.

If it happened to be another company that had fought the union demands as hard as Colt did, many here would be back slapping and standing in line to buy their products. But once again Colt can't seem to please some folks, except for the ones that buy their firearms and enjoy them for being a pretty darn nice piece of equipment.
 
I think the question is not how Colt is doing financially, but whether it is producing products we like. I, for one, would like to see the Anaconda with the bugs worked out on dealer's shelves again.
 
I think the question is not how Colt is doing financially, but whether it is producing products we like.

True.

I, for one, would like to see the Anaconda with the bugs worked out on dealer's shelves again.

Me, too. And we won't.
 
As I pointed out (or at least implied :uhoh:) among the stuff that Colt had auctioned off were the prototypes and production samples of all the post-1970's double-action revolvers, including everything connected to the Python

All of it went... everything. :( :banghead:

If (big if) Colt comes out with any new handguns they will be entirely new, and designed to be made using 21st century manufacturing technology. They will most likely be autoloaders, have polymer frames, stamped lockwork and CNC machined slides. They will never look back.

Oh, and a single new product isn't likely to lift them out of the hole they're in.
 
If (big if) Colt comes out with any new handguns they will be entirely new, and designed to be made using 21st century manufacturing technology. They will most likely be autoloaders, have polymer frames, stamped lockwork and CNC machined slides. They will never look back.

Oh, and a single new product isn't likely to lift them out of the hole they're in.


I think you are correct.

Colt will do much the same as Springfield Armory, Beretta, Smith & Wesson and others if they introduce a new polymer handgun.

Push new polymer handguns(which are more profitable and more widely adopted by military and police forces) while still relying on their "staple" handgun or handguns that continue to sell well.

Beretta now treats the 92FS as an afterthough in advertising and web space compared to the PX4. Springfield Armory is doing the same with the 1911 getting back seat treatment to the XD series. Smith and Wesson the same with the M&P auto pistols compared to their revolvers and 1911's.
 
Really? Care to tell us more about your theory regarding why Colt doesn't care about the civilian market, or are you just repeating what you heard at the gun store? You do know that Colt no longer has the exclusive patent rights to manufacture the M4 carbine for the U.S. government? I'm guessing that now would be as good a time as any for Colt to be trying to sell as many guns to the civilian market as possible.

Then why haven't they done anything about it? Maybe they are working on it but I haven't seen anything happening in years. Unless they have something really big in the works I think it's going to be too little too late for the civilian market. What are they selling anyways? A couple of 1911 models? 1911s that aren't what they used to be....that lack many of the features that today's 1911 buyer wants. Sure they have some ARs out there but now they are just one of many many AR manufacturers.

I would like to ask what evidence you see that shows that Colt does care about the civilian market? Put "COLT" into a search engine and then click on the first website that shows up. It's colt.com of course. Colt.com is a LE/Military/Contractor website. coltsmfg.com is their civilian website. The first thing that pops up on their civilian site is a recall notice about 6 of their pistols. Yikes. Both of their websites look like an amateur made them. They are horrible.

I like a lot of Colt's older products. I hope they can get it together. As of now, I don't see any evidence of that. I wish them well though.
 
Regarding Colt's handgun business. They are down to two players - the 1873 Single Action revolver and 1911 pistol. Both were originally Colt designs, and exclusively Colt products. Yet today they are a minor player in both markets. For example, Smith & Wesson - a historic competitor - makes more 1911-style pistols then Colt does, and I believe they make more commercial AR-15 style rifles then Colt does. These realities have reduced a once proud manufacturer to the status of a large custom shop. Turning all of this around will literally cost many millions of bucks, and no such investment is in sight. :banghead:
 
I think a real frustration here is the extent to which Colt has squandered the value of its brand.

I think it's great that Colt fought the union. I know that the few guns they still make are okay players in their niches -- though not much beyond okay.

I don't necessarily think that the Python would have been the ticket to profits. What something like a reintroduced icon could have been was a brand rejuvenating event.

As it stands, Colt's name means little or nothing. They will have to compete -- starting from a disadvantaged position -- against old rival Smith and Wesson, but also against relative upstarts from Austria, Croatia, Brazil, all of whom have a MUCH larger footprint than Colt does, especially among shooters under 50.

It didn't have to be that way.

That is the real frustration.

I wish Colt's Mfg. well. I hope they survive, and thrive. I'm glad they fought the union rather than dying the death of USRAC. But they aren't offering much that I'm willing to pay a premium for, right now.
 
I would like to ask what evidence you see that shows that Colt does care about the civilian market? Put "COLT" into a search engine and then click on the first website that shows up. It's colt.com of course. Colt.com is a LE/Military/Contractor website. coltsmfg.com is their civilian website. The first thing that pops up on their civilian site is a recall notice about 6 of their pistols. Yikes. Both of their websites look like an amateur made them. They are horrible.

I like a lot of Colt's older products. I hope they can get it together. As of now, I don't see any evidence of that. I wish them well though.

Where do I even start? I've got several examples.

Colt listened to buyers, and realized it had a rich history with its production of military 1911s. Colt knew that buyers wanted a pistol that closely resembled an authentic GI 1911, so they came out with the WW1 repro 1911. Likewise, buyers have long lamented the passing of the MK IV Series '70 model. Colt decided to bring back the original Series '70 as it was produced, minus the dumb finger bushing, and the tiny hard to see sights. This is a great example where Colt brought back a classic design the market had been longing for, but upgraded the gun in a couple areas where the original was lacking.

If you want something modern, Colt offers that too in the XSE lineup. This is another example where Colt listened to buyers that wanted the Novak sights, ambi safety, front cocking serrations :)barf:), and other items that buyers currently want or at least think they want. While a bit late to the market, Colt now offers a 1911 with an integral light rail, another feature many buyers want. I'm not sure what you mean by Colt not having 1911s with the types of features people want. It seems to me like they offer a great variety of 1911s, both old school and modern. They even brought back the Delta Elite 10mm. How much more variety do you want? Not to mention if you don't see exactly what you like, Colt has a custom shop that will build what you want. Yes folks, that is a custom shop with a wide variety of services available to the civilian market that Colt cares nothing about. :confused:

As far as Colt's guns not being what they used to be, please tell us about the new production Colts you have personally examined and some of the problems you have uncovered? I'd like to know. What complaints I have seen have for the most part been cosmetic far more often than functional.

I have no interest in what website comes up in an internet search engine first, last, or anywhere in between, or whether the quality of that website is good, bad or indifferent. I care about the quality and desirability of the products I can buy off the shelf. This is where Colt excels. Regarding the recall, big deal. It happens to every manufacturer. Ruger fans always like to point out how up front Ruger is with their recalls by publicizing them in magazines, on the web, etc.
 
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Colt doesn't care about civilians. If you combine everything Colt ever made, then yes they are still one of the top company in the firearm history. But I sure can't live for another 200 years to see if Colt will live or die. As far as some people are concerned we are talking about present. Presently, Colt has been heading in the wrong path when they say that they want to get out of civilian market. To get them back to the right path will be hard because all they "introduced" thus far have been crap. They may still have some good handgun lines but the new styles from them are pure junk. If they reintroduce their single action revolver lines, I think they I would get it. They don't need to compete with S&W on double action. Their single action lines are in a class of itself. When Colt stop caring about us, that is when they started their wrong path. Colt may say that they do care about us on their website, but when have you heard the truth from a politician. I don't think bankruptcy did anything to the company. Because it is the end products and money that really decide if you live or die. In my mind, Colt is almost dead.
 
Wouldn't I love to see the Anaconda come back, made right. Or even, be still my fluttering heart, the New Service with adjustable sights.

Sure... But would you be willing to pay $1,200 for the Anaconda and more for a target-sighted New Service? Many yearn for these older revolvers, but how many would pay the price necessary to produce them during the 21st century?
 
The Anaconda was a modern design, and could probably be produced at a price competitive with other big-bore DA revolvers. The New Service is another matter, of course.
 
The Anaconda was a modern design, and could probably be produced at a price competitive with other big-bore DA revolvers.

It was "a" more modern design, but still expensive to make. Other top-quality large frame, double action revolvers aren't exactly inexpensive and Colt has some extra built-in overhead.
 
Given good management, the Anaconda could probably have been competitive. If it had been made right -- with throats and forcing cones cut for accuracy -- it would have been worth a few bucks more.
 
People pay $1200 for revolvers all the time.

Obviously, these aren't just any revolvers, but there is most assuredly a market for the right $1200 revolver.
 
I have no interest in what website comes up in an internet search engine first, last, or anywhere in between, or whether the quality of that website is good, bad or indifferent. I care about the quality and desirability of the products I can buy off the shelf.

The main statement that you were debating is whether or not Colt cares about the civilian market. I say they don't. You seem to think they do. A website is a HUGE DEAL these days. Do you know how much marketing is done on the web now? When I go to Samsung.com for instance, I see a picture of a laptop on the front page. I see lots of information on products that people buy every day readily available. I don't see a picture of a natural gas tanker or a bulldozer (yes, they do make those). The reason is because Samsung wants MY business. Their focus is on consumer electronics. I am not a fan of Samsung, I'm just using them as an example here.

Colt's main focus does not seem to be the civilian market. While they may have made a few minor changes to some of their 1911s and re-introduced one that they had previously discontinued (big deal), they are certainly not out there competing with the big players in the civilian market right now. In every gun shop I've been in, there are all sorts of slick looking Kimbers all over the place. There seems to be a good variety of Springfield and Taurus 1911s also. I don't see too many Colts. I don't see any Colt ads in any of the gun magazines I read. Most of what I see on the market is in the used cases at the shops. They simply don't market their products to us.

Now, about the quality of the product: I actually think Colts are pretty good. I have nothing against them and I would buy one over a Kimber or Taurus if it were just based on who made it alone. I said they aren't what they used to be, I didn't say they were junk. That is just my opinion but I think many will agree with me. The same could be said about S&W wheel guns too. Things aren't made like they used to be.
 
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