I wonder if they even have the capacity to make enough guns to get back to profitability.
Is Colt gone?
- Thread starter Mycin
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Coal Dragger
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Watched Hickok45's review of the new Cobra, as per his usual he had positive things to say.
As for Colt's problems, well there is a lot of debt but much less than before. Time and sales along with profitability or lack of will tell if the remaining debt is insurmountable. Most companies carry debt, so that is not unusual, when servicing that debt consumes all profits and forces normal operations to cease is where problems (like bankruptcy) come in.
On the plus side Colt seems totally capable of selling everything they make. As has been pointed out for some of their product lines, they can't deliver enough product. This is a far better problem to have than being unable to generate sales.
Their AR/M4 line is well regarded among serious users (not as much among the hobbyists here), and typically you don't see Colt M4's languishing on dealer shelves. Up until after the 2016 election distributors like G&R Tactical were perpetually out of stock. I've seen plenty of these guns in serious use and so long as they are lubricated and fed from good magazines they run and run hard. I admit to an affinity for Colt AR's having been issued a few, and currently owning one, but my like for them is the result of excellent performance in all conditions I ever used them in. At this point AR sales are slow because Felonia Von Pantsuit didn't get elected, so this line may not be paying the bills quite as well.
Colt 1911's are evidently quite good again thanks to Colt actually investing some money and resources into making them good again. I'm not in the market for a 1911 right now, but if I were I'd probably go with a Colt in that price range versus most other brands. Not sure if 1911 sales are a strong profit generator for Colt given the saturation of the 1911 market and Colt ignoring it for 20 years where features content was concerned.
I can't speak to the 1873 SAA. Never owned or shot one made by Colt. They're beautiful, and evidently in demand. Colt doesn't seem interested in making them though, maybe the cost to produce them is too high to continue at the current price. USFA seems to have had some problems with this too. Evidently all the market demand in the world can't keep a poorly managed business afloat.
The new Cobra will not turn things around by itself, but it does indicate that Colt management may have pulled their heads out of their posteriors in regards to the civilian market. I say better late than never. I hope they sell every single one they make, and are able to continue to offer more DA revolvers in the future. There is a market for concealable DA revolvers, the fact Colt is addressing this is a minor miracle given their management history.
The turn to recognizing the importance of the civilian market is what will make or break Colt as time goes forward. I see some positive signs that Colt is taking this seriously, albeit belatedly. The revisions to the 1911's and M4 lines (such as the CCU carbine and 1911) are a good start and don't really cost much to implement or research, while meeting consumer demand.
What they really need, and may be very tough to pull off, is a viable high quality polymer frame duty pistol in 9mm. In order to be relevant such a pistol will need to be scalable for duty size, and carry size applications. Not sure Colt can pull such a thing off but they need to.
As for Colt's problems, well there is a lot of debt but much less than before. Time and sales along with profitability or lack of will tell if the remaining debt is insurmountable. Most companies carry debt, so that is not unusual, when servicing that debt consumes all profits and forces normal operations to cease is where problems (like bankruptcy) come in.
On the plus side Colt seems totally capable of selling everything they make. As has been pointed out for some of their product lines, they can't deliver enough product. This is a far better problem to have than being unable to generate sales.
Their AR/M4 line is well regarded among serious users (not as much among the hobbyists here), and typically you don't see Colt M4's languishing on dealer shelves. Up until after the 2016 election distributors like G&R Tactical were perpetually out of stock. I've seen plenty of these guns in serious use and so long as they are lubricated and fed from good magazines they run and run hard. I admit to an affinity for Colt AR's having been issued a few, and currently owning one, but my like for them is the result of excellent performance in all conditions I ever used them in. At this point AR sales are slow because Felonia Von Pantsuit didn't get elected, so this line may not be paying the bills quite as well.
Colt 1911's are evidently quite good again thanks to Colt actually investing some money and resources into making them good again. I'm not in the market for a 1911 right now, but if I were I'd probably go with a Colt in that price range versus most other brands. Not sure if 1911 sales are a strong profit generator for Colt given the saturation of the 1911 market and Colt ignoring it for 20 years where features content was concerned.
I can't speak to the 1873 SAA. Never owned or shot one made by Colt. They're beautiful, and evidently in demand. Colt doesn't seem interested in making them though, maybe the cost to produce them is too high to continue at the current price. USFA seems to have had some problems with this too. Evidently all the market demand in the world can't keep a poorly managed business afloat.
The new Cobra will not turn things around by itself, but it does indicate that Colt management may have pulled their heads out of their posteriors in regards to the civilian market. I say better late than never. I hope they sell every single one they make, and are able to continue to offer more DA revolvers in the future. There is a market for concealable DA revolvers, the fact Colt is addressing this is a minor miracle given their management history.
The turn to recognizing the importance of the civilian market is what will make or break Colt as time goes forward. I see some positive signs that Colt is taking this seriously, albeit belatedly. The revisions to the 1911's and M4 lines (such as the CCU carbine and 1911) are a good start and don't really cost much to implement or research, while meeting consumer demand.
What they really need, and may be very tough to pull off, is a viable high quality polymer frame duty pistol in 9mm. In order to be relevant such a pistol will need to be scalable for duty size, and carry size applications. Not sure Colt can pull such a thing off but they need to.
Why is it that it seems any machine company in Bulgaria, Croatia, Brazil, Philippines, South Africa, Florida, Turkey, etc. can tool up and produce a polymer Glock knockoff, alloy CZ copy, revolver, or an original design pistol? But for Colt it's "very tough to pull off" or something else akin to the Apollo program? Ruger, Taurus, and KelTec crank out new designs left and right. What is so difficult about it for Colt?
Coal Dragger
member
Excellent question. Although it should be pointed out that actual duty grade polymer pistols don't come from Bulgaria, Croatia, Brazil, the Philippines, South Africa, Florida (wasn't aware that was a foriegn country now), or Turkey. Knock offs? Sure. Ruger, Taurus, and KelTec also don't offer any polymer framed guns that I would bet my life on or buy to issue to an agency.
So it must be tougher than we think to make one that is really really good. Glock, HK, S&W, SIG, and Walther have all spent quite a bit of time and money developing really good durable, reliable, and accurate polymer service pistols though. The key is that they all had time, and money to do so. Colt may not have either time or money to design something for this market segment, but it is vital that they do because I suspect it is the largest single handgun type sold today.
Too bad Colt couldn't buy the rights to the Arsenal Stryk A and B, or reach an agreement to license the design and produce it. That pistol has a lot of promise and needs a quality manufacturer to produce it, something Tanfoglio couldn't manage, and Salient Arms hasn't yet either. The main thing is that the design already exists, and it works. Wouldn't be the first time Colt produced a gun designed by someone else.
CraigC
Sixgun Nut
I agree, for the most part. Actually the later domestic tang safety guns were pretty good. Much improved over your average post-`64 but still not as good as the Miroku guns.
Coal Dragger
member
Are any major agencies issuing the polymer framed Ruger? I'm not aware of any. Frankly to gain acceptance into that market as a top tier choice any company that wants to be taken seriously had better be able to capture LEO or military contracts. Obviously SIG has the .mil contract now, but if a pistol can be marketed successfully to large law enforcement agencies and then provide good service, the marketing potential for civilian sales is much much better.
Now that doesn't mean Ruger's pistol is garbage, just that from a marketing standpoint it is a weaker product in a crowded field of well known established players.
Now that doesn't mean Ruger's pistol is garbage, just that from a marketing standpoint it is a weaker product in a crowded field of well known established players.
Panzerschwein
member
Here is Hickok45 with the NEW Colt's Cobra!!
Olympus
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I assume you're right, but that sure seems contradictory to my business logic. Colt needs to increase their sales in order to generate more revenue. And by trying to induce EXclusivity, that seems to be the exact opposite of trying to increase sales. But I'm just a small business owner, who am I to question their logic. Maybe this whole reverse psychology thing works on larger scales...
Yep. Miroku is the builder, not the owner. I've got one of those Belgian-owned, Japanese-built, American-named guns (Browning BPS) and the quality is excellent.
I don't like that it was having light primer strikes when debuted to reviewers though. I want it to succeed--I'm no hater--but I think it's realistic to be concerned.
I don't know about the new Ruger American, but Ruger sold 5,000 P95s (their prior polymer service pistol) to the US Army in 2004.
Olympus
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I think it's safe to say it backfired. They lost a lot of dealers just to get an inventory at some of the larger dealers (who likely already stocked a few Colts to begin with).
Coal Dragger
member
Another problem with that plan: at the time Colt didn't really make a finished product a lot of consumers wanted. So Colt wanted dealers to keep a bunch of uncompetitive product in stock to sell (at that time) LE6920's and LE6720's which have always had strong demand.
It would have been different if Colt 1911's and all their other product lines were consistently innovative or at least optioned up to current consumer tastes. Colt has a troubled history of not keeping up with evolving changes to the market. Like offering a 1911 without an undercut trigger guard, beaver tail grip safety, throated barrel, and Novak style sights when everyone else is. Seriously Colt, *** took so long?
It would have been different if Colt 1911's and all their other product lines were consistently innovative or at least optioned up to current consumer tastes. Colt has a troubled history of not keeping up with evolving changes to the market. Like offering a 1911 without an undercut trigger guard, beaver tail grip safety, throated barrel, and Novak style sights when everyone else is. Seriously Colt, *** took so long?
Gordon
Member
I guess many forgot about Colt's All American 2000 polymer turd, er pistol .
Coal Dragger
member
That pistol was awful. I've only seen one in person, not impressive.
On a side note the hand placement of the shooter in that video is atrocious. Dude needs some shooting lessons.
On a side note the hand placement of the shooter in that video is atrocious. Dude needs some shooting lessons.
Coal Dragger
member
Never mind. He was only demonstrating how awful the trigger was.
CraigC
Sixgun Nut
That was my impression.
Colt has been banking on its famous name and little else for decades. But it's worthy of note that they have ALWAYS been heavily dependent upon military contracts, since the very beginning, yet folks act as if it's a new thing with the M16/M4.
Colt has been banking on its famous name and little else for decades. But it's worthy of note that they have ALWAYS been heavily dependent upon military contracts, since the very beginning, yet folks act as if it's a new thing with the M16/M4.
Well I still have my Series 70 that I bought in nineteen hundred and seventy eight. I bought it because I was trained on the 1911 and it was my 21st birthday. I was under the impression that they hand fitted those guns back in the day. I did have the throat opened, feed ramp polished and installed some sights that I could actually see. I still shoot it a lot and it is reliable. At the very least I could crack a skull with it when I ran out of ammo. I never owned any other Colts, I did want one of their New Frontiers, however I could not bring myself to pay the price for one. I bought a Ruger Blackhawk .45 instead. These days nobody gives a crap about a famous name. What a shame.
I think FN makes more M4s for the military than Colt does now. Colt is one of those dying northern industrial dinosaurs that will not change for their own good. Hopefully for the sake of the name Rock Island buys them out, I bought one of their 1911 TCMs and for the money it is top notch! I'm still thinking about buying their Colt clone .38 SPL.
I think FN makes more M4s for the military than Colt does now. Colt is one of those dying northern industrial dinosaurs that will not change for their own good. Hopefully for the sake of the name Rock Island buys them out, I bought one of their 1911 TCMs and for the money it is top notch! I'm still thinking about buying their Colt clone .38 SPL.
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