Is Federal 9BPLE 9mm 115gr +P+ JHP a viable defensive load anymore?

[Thermactor]

Do any of you guys consider Federal 9BPLE to be a viable self-defense load anymore, given today's newest 9mm hollow point technology?
As of today, subject to change tomorrow, it prices somewhere between plinking ammo and Federal HST. It is affordable to train with, and affordable to prove to work in your platform.

But it has a lot of trash-talking detractors online, and they have a point to make that bonded ammunition offers better weight retention. And I've seen the ballistics testing that showed the 9BPLE's jacket shedding pieces along the wound track.

And the 9BPLE is an old load. So, as I gather, at some point there was a shift from 9mm to 40 caliber back to 9mm among the LE community as some hot new whiz-bang 9mm ammo made the 40 cal "obsolete" (fair disclosure, I'm a big .40 fan so lets not veer into that track please).

This newer 9mm tech like Winchester Ranger T +P+ 127gr loads are perenially out of stock wherever I look, and wherever they are found, they are damn expensive. But the main thing is, you can't find them ANYWHERE. Find me where I can find RA9T in stock! That's the problem.

So this brings me back to the 9BPLE. It's what we had before 9mm became cool again. Would you trust your life to it?

 

[eldon519]

It is just as viable as ever; however, there are better loads now.

My main take on the bonded thing is that it is most useful to LEO who are arguably more likely than your common man to have to shoot through barriers like car doors, windshields, etc.

I'd rather have a better load, but it is better than FMJ.

 

[moxie]

My favorite loads are the 124 +P HSTs and Gold Dots (very hard to find), followed by non +P versions of same. Right after that come the +P+ 9BPLE or even the plain 9BP. They still work.

BTW, SGAmmo has the RA9T and 9BPLE IN STOCK as well as a variety of HSTs and Gold Dots in 50 rd. LE boxes and in case lots! Really good prices. The drought is over, at least for this stuff.

 

[Thermactor]

My favorite loads are the 124 +P HSTs and Gold Dots (very hard to find), followed by non +P versions of same. Right after that come the +P+ 9BPLE or even the plain 9BP. They still work.

BTW, SGAmmo has the RA9T and 9BPLE IN STOCK as well as a variety of HSTs and Gold Dots in 50 rd. LE boxes and in case lots! Really good prices. The drought is over, at least for this stuff.

Regarding SGAmmo, looks like they just got a bunch of stuff in stock.
I got an email notification this afternoon. So I did some checking.

@ SGAmmo:
Fed 9BPLE 115gr: 33.5cpr delivered @ 1000 rd order qty
Fed HST 124gr 47.5 cpr delivered @ 1000 rd order qty
Win RA9T 147gr: 60.7cpr delivered @ 500 rd order qty
Win Ranger 124gr +P: 64.5cpr delivered @ 1000 rd order qty

The Ranger 127gr +P+ is a clear winner of a round, as far as all the data shows. Its a real champion. But Winchester knows it, and for some stupid pig-headed reason they don't sell it to the general public often. And I can't find it in stock anywhere.

 

[WC145]

9BPLE was my duty load when I carried a 9mm for work and now that I'm retired from LE I still trust is as my 9mm carry load. It's still loaded hot, it's still accurate, and the reputation that it earned is just as well deserved. The human body hasn't changed any since the 9BPLE was the go to hot 9mm load for LE, it'll work as well today as it ever did.

 

[19-3Ben]

It is just as viable as ever; however, there are better loads now.

This.

it'll work as well today as it ever did.

That is absolutely and undeniably true, however it's kind of a non-argument. A musket ball would work as well as it ever has, but not many people would choose one over Federal HST.

Ultimately, the JHPs of the past were a big leap in efficacy over FMJs and they were good enough that LE and the general shooting public adopted them en mass, and with good reason.
But these days, with modern bonded jacket rounds like Federal HST, Winchester Ranger T, Hornady Critical duty/defense, and Gold Dot (and soon to come, Gold Dot G2!!) there's really very little reason I can find to justify carrying 9BPLE, Winchester Silver Tip, Hydrashock etc... The older bullets just have too much likelihood of jacket-core separations, and clogging in clothing. These are things that can happen with modern ammo too, but why not give yourself the advantage of minimizing the probability?

 

[M1key]

The Glock 17 is loaded with it right now on my nightstand.

M

 

[C0untZer0]

Gel tests seem to validate that it is a good round:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W9iiaXoRaRY

I don't think it is better than the HST though.

 

[Lycidas Janwor]

Do any of you guys consider Federal 9BPLE to be a viable self-defense load anymore, given today's newest 9mm hollow point technology?
As of today, subject to change tomorrow, it prices somewhere between plinking ammo and Federal HST. It is affordable to train with, and affordable to prove to work in your platform.

But it has a lot of trash-talking detractors online, and they have a point to make that bonded ammunition offers better weight retention. And I've seen the ballistics testing that showed the 9BPLE's jacket shedding pieces along the wound track.

And the 9BPLE is an old load. So, as I gather, at some point there was a shift from 9mm to 40 caliber back to 9mm among the LE community as some hot new whiz-bang 9mm ammo made the 40 cal "obsolete" (fair disclosure, I'm a big .40 fan so lets not veer into that track please).

This newer 9mm tech like Winchester Ranger T +P+ 127gr loads are perenially out of stock wherever I look, and wherever they are found, they are damn expensive. But the main thing is, you can't find them ANYWHERE. Find me where I can find RA9T in stock! That's the problem.

So this brings me back to the 9BPLE. It's what we had before 9mm became cool again. Would you trust your life to it?

I can buy this stuff at $0.32 a round... yah, it's good enough for me at that price.

http://www.sgammo.com/product/feder...r-p-federal-115-grain-hollow-point-ammo-9bple

 

[Old Dog]

I think it's still better than a lot of the commercial JHPs out there. My duty load is 124-grain +P Gold Dot, but I've gotta hoard that ... However, I have a butt-ton of left-over 9BPLE that I still use in spare carry mags ... It is quite an accurate load, especially through a Beretta 92FS or SIG P-226, so I've always like it ...

That is absolutely and undeniably true, however it's kind of a non-argument. A musket ball would work as well as it ever has, but not many people would choose one over Federal HST.

I suspect most folks here are stuck using whatever stock they can get hold of (or afford). Personally, I can't find the 50-round boxes of +P HSTs hardly anywhere these days ... And frankly, I doubt that in a typical self-defense situation, the difference between 9BPLE and the more modern rounds, presuming center mass (no body armor) or head shot hits, would determine the outcome of use against an actual human.

 

[19-3Ben]

And frankly, I doubt that in a typical self-defense situation, the difference between 9BPLE and the more modern rounds, presuming center mass (no body armor) or head shot hits, would determine the outcome of use against an actual human.

I agree. I doubt it would make much of a difference. But on the off chance that it does, it's worth it to me to carry the best. I doubt I'll need the gun in the first place, so the whole practice of carrying is about prepping for the unexpected and giving yourself every possible advantage, right?

 

[moxie]

Right. And the 50 round LE boxes of HST and Gold Dot are available in stock right now here:

http://www.sgammo.com/catalog/pistol-ammunition/9mm-9x19

As near as I can tell, the HST 124+P is not available anywhere.

 

[Thermactor]

I agree. I doubt it would make much of a difference. But on the off chance that it does, it's worth it to me to carry the best. I doubt I'll need the gun in the first place, so the whole practice of carrying is about prepping for the unexpected and giving yourself every possible advantage, right?

But can you afford to practice with the best?
Can you afford to prove out 500 rounds of Ranger T will work in your duty gun without malfunctioning?
Can you afford to prove your marksmanship with the Rangers over an extended training period?

The 9BPLE is bargain priced... maybe even being sold close to cost for what you get. It costs what you'd spend for WWB at the LGS, for crying out loud! Or less! Some stores around here still want $18.99 for 50 rounds of generic 115gr ball. And they will act like they are doing you a HUGE favor.

 

[19-3Ben]

A) comparing the price of the cheapest 9BPLE to admittedly overpriced FMJ is really not a fair comparison.
B) Of course it is more expensive to practice with the more current standard and what is generally considered to be the very best. That's kind of a no-brainer. If one can only afford to function check their gun with FMJ, then they should do so. But when Gold Dot/HST/Ranger/FTX can be had at $0.50-$0.60 per round, it does put it in the realm of possibility for many people. I also don't think that most people are putting 500 rounds of their carry ammo through the gun just to function check. It couldn't hurt to do that, but I think most people would say that it is way past the point of diminishing returns.

EDIT TO ADD:
I just want to add something quickly to clarify my position here. I'm no basher of 9BPLE by any stretch. It is cheap enough that I snagged a couple boxes at one point as "just in case" type ammo. It goes in the back of the ammo pile because I realize that should a situation of the type we don't discuss on THR happen, I would rather have 9BPLE as my backup than resort to FMJ right away. I have no question that it is good stuff. I believe the ammo I currently carry (depending on the gun it's either HST, or FTX) to have a slight edge in performance, which is why i carry it. But that doesn't make 9BPLE, hydrashock, Silver tip, Nyclad, and all the other previous generation ammo ineffective.

 

[saltydog452]

9BP and 9BPLE

The Federal 9BP and 9BPLE has fed, fired, and ejected through any 9X19 that I have tried. No glitches, burps, or hang-ups.

Star BM, 228, Colts, Kahrs, BHPs, & ?.

There hasn't been any reasonable excuse to try to find anything 'newer and better'.

There was a brief flirtation with the all copper HP. It din't function through BHP Mec/Gar combo.

Cor-Bon 115 did and continues to function through the Kahrs and BHPs. Haven't been able to afford checking that brand through any other platforms.

 

[strambo]

But can you afford to practice with the best?
Can you afford to prove out 500 rounds of Ranger T will work in your duty gun without malfunctioning?
Can you afford to prove your marksmanship with the Rangers over an extended training period?

Why would you need to do those things? I practice with practice ammo. Considering all the variables in a close quarter life or death gunfight, a small difference in mechanical accuracy or POI of a practice load vs. a carry load will be a non-issue. You do need to ensure reliability, but 500 rds. is excessive. 200 rds will do and confirm how the round shoots vs. practice ammo.

There is no right or wrong answer, I would rather use a better bullet and also save $ on practice ammo as opposed to spending more $ to use a lesser performing JHP all the time.

 

[c1ogden]

Thermactor - with the prices you are quoting I'd stick with the 9BPLE. Yes, the other loads are newer and "better" but not enough so that I'd pay 50 to 100% more for them. I'd feel well protected with them in my gun. and I'd rather see you spend the "extra" money on more ammo for practice than on more expensive ammo. Higher performance ammo can't hurt but its been proven time after time that the #1 factor is shot placement and more practice means better placement.

 

[Shawn Dodson]

9mm Fed +P+ 115 gr JHP 9BPLE fired from S&W 5906 (lot # 24C-0684) 5 shot ave:
BG: vel = 1342 fps, pen depth = 11.7", RD = 0.47", RL = 0.21", RW = 67.2 gr

Note that the Federal 115 gr 9BP and 9BPLE were very inconsistent in testing, with insufficient penetration in bare gelatin, bullet fragmentation leading to poor expanded diameter, and a high failure to expand in denim testing.

--DocGKR

http://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?1624-New-9-mm-ammo-testing&p=42097&viewfull=1#post42097

 

[M1key]

I've done my own water jug testing of the 9BPLE through 4 layers denim with 12-14 inch penetration and 50% or more expansion and sometimes separation. (I don't care).

I also own and carry all the other boutique rounds when I feel like it. They do a little better. I don't get too obsessed over any of them.

M

 

[HankB]

A musket ball would work as well as it ever has, but not many people would choose one over Federal HST.

Let's see, from a Brown Bess musket, you have nominal 3/4" diameter lead ball weighing around 640 grains at somewhere between 1000 and 1200 feet/sec.

I'll take that over any Federal HST handgun load . . . or, at least I would if I could get those ballistics out of an accurate & practical handgun.

I'm not suggesting we carry flintlocks - that would be silly - but viewed purely from the standpoint of terminal ballistics, don't sneer at the old stuff.

Including Federal 9BPLE.

 

[Phaedrus/69]

Let's see, from a Brown Bess musket, you have nominal 3/4" diameter lead ball weighing around 640 grains at somewhere between 1000 and 1200 feet/sec.

I'll take that over any Federal HST handgun load . . . or, at least I would if I could get those ballistics out of an accurate & practical handgun.

I'm not suggesting we carry flintlocks - that would be silly - but viewed purely from the standpoint of terminal ballistics, don't sneer at the old stuff.

Including Federal 9BPLE.

The reality of the situation then would be one lead ball @1000 fps that may or may not fire vs 16 rounds of HST. I would take 16 rounds of reliable 9mm (heck maybe even .22!) ammo over one of anything from a flint lock!

I'm not sure about the Federal 9BPLE. Most of the reports I've read say it's a good stopper with a stellar record on the street. A few tests show it to be inconsistent but I'll go with actual street results. I don't think there's any doubt that the HST is superior, the question is how superior? I would feel pretty confident carrying the 9BPLE if I had to but to be honest I am more confident in the 124gr and 147gr for 9mm. Of course, the Federal 9BPLE is pretty easy to find and relatively inexpensive.

Apropos of nothing I don't think it's necessary to fire 500 rounds of a given load in order to trust a gun/ammo combo, provided the gun itself has proven generally reliable. For instance I've got thousands, probably tens of thousands, of rounds through my various HKs with no failures of any kind. They all feed everything I've found. So if I'm looking for a carry load for my VP9 or P30S I'm fine with running a hundred rounds through it to test. If I'm being honest I would even be okay with running just one 50 round box through my USP- to date I've never found anything it wouldn't run.

So in summary I would rather run with 124gr HST or 147gr HST, but I wouldn't feel doomed with the 9BLE!

 

[Catshooter]

The 9BPLE has an excellent reputation because it works. For years I could either not find it, or when I could I was out of money. I recently found it at TargetSportsUSA for $17.50 a fifty round box and couldn't pass it up.

By the time I loaded all my guns, spare mags, and put ammo in the various kits I keep handy I had almost used up a case. Got about a box and a half out of that 1,000 rounds untouched.

It's good, serious ammo that I can afford and that trumps the Winchester 127 grain that I can't.


Cat

 

[Proud Southern Son]

I've always liked the 9bple, and up until recently had carried it in some of my guns. I've recently begun to try out and stock up lower pressure rounds with more modern bullet designs, but I keep some of the 9bple around.

I think that with the technology they had when the 9bple was designed, the only sure way to make a hollow point work consistently was to increase the velocity. By all accounts these high velocity rounds were effective, and were used by several law enforcement agencies. I also believe the energy created by the higher velocity also enhanced effectiveness, but this is something that is very difficult to prove with science or statistics.

The reason I'm probably going to go with the lower pressure rounds is two-fold. First, I would like to train with a round that has a similar recoil impulse to my duty round, just for the sake of familiarity, and if you do this with +p+ rounds the wear of your gun will be accelerated and the rounds will cost more. Second, I know I can get more rounds of standard pressure or +p on target is a shorter time frame than the +p+. I believe that, even if a single round of the +p+ is marginally more effective in a given situation, two rounds of HST, Ranger T, Critical Duty, or Gold Dot will be more effective.
All that being said, it's hard to pass up the 9bple at a good price.

 

[HankB]

. . . I know I can get more rounds of standard pressure or +p on target is a shorter time frame than the +p+.

Really? I would be hard-pressed to tell the difference between a +P and a +P+ load in 9mm; the latter really isn't that much more powerful, from the label being typically loaded to ~40,000 CUP as opposed to the 38,500 PSI MAP of +P ammo. The recoil impulse of either the 115 grain Federal 9BPLE or the 127 grain Winchester SXT is less - substantially less - than ordinary USGI .45 hardball.

And that ain't bad.

 

[Jackal]

AT 9bple prices, a guy can actually AFFORD to practice with his carry load. That alone is a huge win in my book.