Is it a crime to have $1,500 in cash on your person?

[Sylvilagus Aquaticus]

30 years or so ago I was working as a bank teller; one of the seminars the Treasury Department/Secret Service put on for us regarding spotting counterfeit bills mentioned that (back then!) 80% of all bills of $20 demonimation and larger had detectable traces of drug residue on them.

I see no reason whatsoever for that to be any different today.

As far as cash on hand, my grandparents cashed every Social Security check they ever received (starting in 1968), put it into a small envelope every month with the amount penciled on it, and filed it in a strongbox in their closet. After their passing, there was a *remarkable* amount of money in there. That was what they used for their 'ready cash reserve' rather than writing checks for cash against their bank account, which was nothing to sneeze at, either.

Regards,
Rabbit.

 

[Delmar]

The seizure law, so far as cash goes, is part of the RICO statutes. The intent was to take the money being used to buy drugs before they could actuall purchase the product.

THAT's why you should never let "do-gooder" laws clear committee. Kind of like "gun safety legislation".

 

[Stebalo]

Is it illegal to carry $1500 cash on your person? No. Is it illegal to carry $10,000 cash on your person? It is illegal to import/export more than that sum of money in US or foreign cash, travelers checks, cashiers checks, bank draft, money order, etc without declaring it to the gubbamint. Or to make a cash transaction with any of the above vehicles without filling out form 8300 with the IRS.

Regardless, the goverment can and often does seize sums of cash from honest citizens without oversight or appeal under the aegis of federal seizure laws.

Whether you are guilty of a crime or not, suspicion is all they need to take your cash/vehicle/home/posessions. It's a lucrative trade for law enforcement. State and local LEO agencies most of the proceeds from such seizures. Odds are that even if they take your property from you, you won't even be charged with a crime. That doesn't mean they have to return to you what is yours.

An article I found from the Pittsburgh Press in 1991 estimated that until then, $1.5 billion worth of assets have been seized from private citizens without due process. I shudder to think what that figure might be today.

 

[Ky Larry]

"Arrest the money." And some people still think the "War On Drugs" is a success? Please,wake up America.

 

[Fletchette]

there is some federal law against carrying more than 10k in cash when crossing international borders. something to try to stop people from moving large amounts of cash in an undocumented manner.

Hmmm. But the Feds seem to have no problem with 100 Billion dollars a year being mailed to Mexico by illegal immigrant workers...

 

[whm1974]

There are a few places with laws on the books that say you can be arrested for vagrancy if are not carrying at least $15 on your person.

I'm thinking this about 10 years ago in ether Corpus Christi or South Padre Island.

Right. So anybody can be arrested for vagrancy. How many of us have been in public with no money at all? For that matter I know a few people who use credit/debit card all the time and carry no cash.

Sounds like a law pass so the local police can harassed certain groups of people. Like "gun control laws we know how this backfired.

-Bill

 

[SUE ROVR]

Well, I for one have no issues carrying $1500. I usually don't as I loath anything bigger than a 20 and more than 500 becomes cumbersome.

Then again I am not a 42 year old black landscaper or a 30 year old mexican migrant.

I am a well dressed white guy. And if they give me ???? about it I will show them my last pay stub. Yes officer I make more in a day than you do in a week. Sorry, thats why I have some money.

As far as the car thing, I worked briefly for a high end dealership. Most smart people with their own businesses would put 9000 in cash down.

The dumb ones would put 9900 or close (automatic report) or worse yet ask if you would report it (automatic report).

I did see $75k in cash, a few times. No biggy, no one cared.

It is not drugs etc. it is tax evasion.

 

[Art Eatman]

My source for the Louisiana commentary was an article in the
Tallahassee Democrat, written around the time of all the brouhaha over Louisiana "doings". Accuracy? Dunno. It was later reported that the Louisiana governor got involved, in an effort to persuade tourists to come bring money without fear of "grabbitis".

Art

 

[pete f]

My nephew had been at school at ASU and was cutting thru Utah on the way back to Minnesota. He had a substantial sum of money on him as he had sold a car and had already closed his back account in Ariz. While driving with another friend, he was stopped and told he was a drug runner.
No Probable cause, no interview/interogation,
just " license, registration, i believe you are a drug runner." get out of the car. They( the deputies) opened his back pack found the money and the receipt for the car and said this is drug money and took it. The boys asked for a case number, or a receipt and were told it was not needed, as they would be getting a statement from the county, both were cuffed and hauled to jail. Using his one phone call, nephew called my brother who is not without resources. It took two attourneys and several thousand in fees to get the kids released. The money took several months to get back, and the state of Utah declined to cover legal fees, now being sued for that too.

 

[Otherguy Overby]

Loooosiana

Art:
My source for the Louisiana commentary was an article in the
Tallahassee Democrat, written around the time of all the brouhaha over Louisiana "doings". Accuracy? Dunno. It was later reported that the Louisiana governor got involved, in an effort to persuade tourists to come bring money without fear of "grabbitis".

Some cities along I-10 were doing it to travelers, too. They were confiscating cars, cash and everything from travelers with out of state plates. It got so bad 60 minutes even did a segment on it. Yep, they got stopped, too, and their car was also "confiscated".

Some people just need killin.

 

[PMDW]

Louisiana has a bad reputation of being very corrupt.

It's all true, too.

 

[Rico567]

The effects of the "seizure" statutes are of the greatest concern, being another example of Unintended Consequences. It is now an obvious incentive toward corruption, in this case of agencies who are allowed to supplement their budgets the more they seize. It's no different than the situation that used to exist where magistrates were allowed to keep a percentage of traffic tickets as their pay. When this practice was finally challenged, the studies used in evidence demonstrated that a conviction rate bordering on 100% existed where this system was in place. I think it was Mapp v. Ohio that finally made this practice illegal. I don't see how the current crop of seizure laws are any different. If the money or property is seized, the proceeds should go to charity or the treasury, and shouldn't directly benefit the agency in question.
I've never even heard a rumor about it being illegal to carry a certain amount of money per se. I theorize that this has emerged because the $10K reporting requirements in banks (note that banks will also report ANY amount that appears "suspicious") and whatever import / export laws on cash exist. These laws vary from one country to another. It is my understanding that modern currency has elements in it that are designed to make it detectable by the equipment in airports, for just this reason. Some nations are very restrictive in how much of their currency can be exported. As far as I know, there are no restrictions of this kind on the amount of U.S. currency, only the declaration regs.

 

[whm1974]

Some cities along I-10 were doing it to travelers, too. They were confiscating cars, cash and everything from travelers with out of state plates. It got so bad 60 minutes even did a segment on it. Yep, they got stopped, too, and their car was also "confiscated".

Travelers will be wise to avoid those cities and/or I-10

-Bill

 

[dolanp]

On deposits, I love walking in with 10k or more and dropping it into three accts. The tellers always laugh, saying that everyone does it just to spite the fed's paperwork.

That's actually called "structuring" and it is against federal law as well. Many financial institutes will file a Suspicious Activity Report when it's obvious you are doing this.

 

[Art Eatman]

And yet I've been making several round trips per year between my home here in Terlingua and my wife's home in Thomasville, GA. (Second marriage; two "micro-empires") I've never had the first sign of a hassle between San Antonio and Tallahassee. I guess between us in these 16 years we've been stopped maybe three or four times for speeding...

I'm not complaining, you understand.

Art

 

[whm1974]

That's actually called "structuring" and it is against federal law as well. Many financial institutes will file a Suspicious Activity Report when it's obvious you are doing this.

They are required to report that too. And it is real easy to bust and convicted someone who wasn't aware he was running afoul of "structuring laws".

-Bill

 

[Deavis]

Sounds like a law pass so the local police can harassed certain groups of people. Like "gun control laws we know how this backfired.

I think that was exactly the point! Being homeless on a Friday night...

 

[jnojr]

Now that I think about it, if I had the cash, I'd make a bunch of $10k deposits. If anyone asks questions, have my paperwork handy. Then I'd do it over again, just to make 'em fill out more paperwork.

When the Government does paperwork, you do paperwork. And pay fees, taxes, etc. I guarantee you, they can hold out longer than you can

 

[jnojr]

Pulling a checkbook out does the exact same thing. I don't think carrying $500 in cash is going to make or break a deal at a car dealership, when you can write a personal check for $25,000 it gets their attention.

Errrm, anyone can write a check for $25,000, $25,000,000, or any other amount.

$500 in cash isn't going to raise anybodys eyebrows, except maybe for a beater being sold on a street corner somewhere. That's for sure. And i doubt a dealership would be wowed by cash... it's probably a bigger headache for them than it's worth. The last time I bought a car, I used a "sight draft" (or is it "site draft"?). Once verified, it's as good as cash or any other negotiable instrument. But it's completely worthless to anyone but the dealer.

 

[Valkman]

If there was some law against carrying more than $1500 I guarantee it won't be enforced in Vegas - they don't have the manpower or the jailspace!

I don't believe there is such a law and if there was it would not be enforced here. Rich tourists and resdents are looked at as assets, not criminals.

 

[Mark in California]

Banking Restrictions

Worked 17 years as a messenger for a armoured car company. I talked to the tellers about these laws.

A teller was fired, and the bank fined by order of the government for explaining these laws to a customer. The teller was almost charged with a crime. The govenment's thinking was if a custormer asked about banking restrictions, they must be up to no good. That the bank should have refused to answer questions and then should have filed a Suspecious Transaction Report on them.

Over $10,000 - a Large Transaction Report - so many are filed that very few are actually read.

If any transaction appears questionable - a Suspecious Transaction Report - the IRS/Treasury reads all of these.

If you have a history of large cash deposits, you may be given a higher thresh-hold amount beforing generating a report.

Banks hate these reports. They are time consuming, and can really slow things down. They also must be filled out that day. If its closing time, you stay after and file the report.

As to "large" sums of money, my dad carried a large amount. As kids we thought it was a few hundred. After his death we found out it was a few thousand on his person and another couple thousand somewhere around him. This was not flash money. He never used it. My father grew up in the depression. He never wanted to go through that again. He kept this money so he and his family would never be without shelter, food, clothing and heat. He never needed it, but it was very important to his well being. He never fully trusted banks, he remember them failing. He felt it was his responsiblity to insure his own well being and security.

 

[El Tejon]

Federal law? You mean there are federal laws now?

hso, have not heard that one. Just so you know I'm writing that one down in my law rumor book.

10K is border crossings.

"Mr. Tejon, do you have anything to declare?"
"Yes, I declare that I long for a free country!"

 

[whm1974]

A teller was fired, and the bank fined by order of the government for explaining these laws to a customer. The teller was almost charged with a crime. The govenment's thinking was if a custormer asked about banking restrictions, they must be up to no good. That the bank should have refused to answer questions and then should have filed a Suspecious Transaction Report on them.

This stuiped. What law did the teller break? So if a customer asks questions he is now a subspect?

-Bill

 

[Archie]

$1,500 on person?

No such federal law, and I don't know of any state or local law. Not only would such a law be difficult to enforce, it has no reason. (Not that 'no reason' has ever stopped a goofy legislature...)

Title 31, U S Code, section 5316 mandates reporting "...currency or other monetary instruments..." worth more than $10,000 being moved into or out of the US. (Airplane, ship, on foot...)
The law was passed in the late '70s or early '80s and was aimed at drug smugglers and money launderers. SCOTUS had already ruled on laws singling out 'criminals' as being violative of 'self-incrimination' rights. However, by writing the law to include anyone transporting funds in and out of the US, it was constitutional. If a person does not file the report, 31 USC 5317 allows seizure of the funds in question. The theory is this would accomplish two things: One, get the money away from the criminal enterprize; and Two, give the government a lead into investigating certain people and organizations associated with the illegal currency transfer.
It works to some degree to this day.

Unfortunately, this turned into a cash cow for the federal government. To be sure, seizures were made in accordance with law, but not in the spirit of the law. Happily, the courts have rectified this to a high degree.
The matter of the Louisiana police is quite another matter; I'll not comment on it.

The question arises, "Does the government have any business knowing how much money I have?"

In general, I don't think so. However, remember the currency reporting laws were passed by Congress in response to the public's demand of 'Do something about drug pushers!' Not that I'm sure this was the right thing to do, anymore than the GCA '68 or the GCA '94 or the Assault Weapons Ban were the right thing to do about the murder rate.

It is up to citizens (like you and me) to deal with our elected Congresscritters and tell them what is proper to do, not just to 'do something'.

Finally, if you agree or not, the currency reporting requirement is the law. Giving some of your currency over $10,000 to your spouse and some to your kid is 'structuring'; a strategy designed to defeat the law, and is illegal. You can like it or not, but willfully violating the law will not help your situation.

Here endeth the lesson.

 

[DRZinn]

The more I hear, the more nauseated I get.

I may have to begin dealing only in cash.