Is it bad I don't think I'd like a progressive press?

[Palladan44]

I could never go back from progressive.
Brass prep sucks up a lot of my time as it is, I do resize on a single die in the toolhead on my Dillon 550B before Brass prep, though. All pistol and MSR rifle rounds is 99.5% of what I shoot.

Single stage great for low volume rifle rounds, especially the big thick walled magnums. Im actually having a friend resize my 300 WSMs on his single stage press for me. I've accumulated (almost) a total of 50 pcs of spent casings in 15 years! The best part is I can recall the specific occasions I fired about 20 of these, and each one resulted in an instant kill. The other 25 were fired at the range sighting in (about 3 per year) which were uneventful. I also borrowed it to my Brother who used it on 2 hunts and killed 2 deer one supposedly at 300 yds, and a friend killed his first Mule deer with it at 200 yds, If this doesn't qualify as low volume, I don't know what does! The fact all brass made it back is pretty amazing, and this rifle has basically legendary status, thanks to being accurate and well.....truth be told, a little overpowered for what it has been used for. Winchester really got it right on their "Fail Safe" product line I guess.

 

[kcofohio]

I initially thought the same thing about a progressive. I broke down this summer and bought one (Lee Six Pack Pro) for loading 9mm. The wife and I shoot a pretty fair amount of 9mm, and it sure has saved me a ton of time. I'm slowly gathering the parts to do .223 and .300 blackout on the progressive as well. Once set up it's pretty darn consistent, and you get the "feel" for it and can make a lot of ammo in a hurry!

It sounds like it's working out for you. I was tempted at one time to get the 6 pack. I just don't shoot enough to justify it.
With the 4000, for me the feel harder to detect than that with a turret or single stage. But I haven't gotten a bullet feeder yet. And with having to manually prime, unlike the Lee 6-hole, it's one more step to keep track of.

 

[KY DAN]

After mounting my first single stage to a bench, then a couple months later mounting my Lyman 8-turrent (Yes it took me this long before finally having a bench for it) I really believe the turrent to be my final stage in reloading.
I've considered a Dillion RL-450 because that looks like a good sturdy press, but I don't think i'd actually set one up. After years of hand press, the 8-turrent is a massive improvement and it alone makes reloading alot faster. One thing I learned with my first round with the 8-turrent is how much more variables of error it gives you. There were times the primer wasn't fully seated, I needed to pay close attention and felt like I didn't have nearly as much control over the quality of my rounds as I did with the hand press and later single stage.
So I don't see me having much of a use for a progressive press. Only that people say you might as well get a progressive and not bother with a turrent press but honestly I really like the turrent press. Why is the turrent press shunned and not as preferred?
That said I may still look for a Dillion RL-450 (yes the 450 not the 550) if I can find one brand new in the box

I am a huge advocate of the Dillon 450 with whatever powder measure makes you happy.

My 450 only has 1 upgrade and 1 modification, my primer system is from a 550 so it does it automatically.

The modification is I kept having issues with dillon plastic tip on the primer magazine. So I got longer aluminum tubing and turned the tips to fit in the socket and eliminated the issues. My press will feed what ever brand of primer I put in it now, before it was a headache.

My over all length of loaded ammo is .001-.003 long or short. This is perfect for the "normal" shooter.

I do prefer to process my brass on a single stage and clean it aftwards to avoid making the 450 dirty.

Hope it helps

 

[BreechFace]

Going on 25 years with a turret, and I use it like a single stage. De prime in one stage, resize in one stage....as in all the brass for that run. Prime all the brass. One step at a time, just manually turn the turret to the next die.

I don't see myself changing.

I know people with different progressive. What do you need to do to change from large to small primers.....well that seems like a pain, change from 3006 to 38 special......well that seems like a pain, and you need what.....that does not come with....how much is that.....

Nope. But they sure do love them.

How often do you change calibers. Every loading session is a different caliber then the last that is how often.....oh.

You use your turret press like I use mine, it just makes it nice to have everything setup to produce a cartridge, one only needs to turn the turret with each operation.

The are several of reasons I got into a progressive press, for autoloading pistols, rifles and for producing mass quantities of varmint loads for the 223. Another reason is I enjoy mechanics and working with my hands and problem solving. The consistency and control of one's own destiny with ammunition supply is a very nice bonus. As long as I have primers of different sizes a selection of powder and bullets I can react to shortages within any of the cartridges I shoot. Those that stockpile a specific cartridge might find them needing something else they didn't stockpile; whereas a reloader just shifts the emphasis of their components and time at the bench accordingly.

The worst case scenario on my Dillon XL750 changing primer size and case size is about a 15-20 minute affair. The 650/XL750's have a tool head that holds all the dies and powder thrower which comes off and gets replaced maintaining settings and a shell plate that gets changed out to hold the cases. Obviously, if one is changing seating depth, powder throw or crimp settings those would need to get adjusted (just as they would on a single stage or turret), but if one has a pet load setup on the tool head, it is lock it in place, fill with powder and run with it. Changing the primer shuttle is the most time consuming of the operation but isn't that bad, must of the linkages are designed with changing operations in mind.

During a change of cartridge like above, it is always a good idea to clean any stray powder or debris that has fallen around the shell plate, so it's a good time to do some maintenance anyways.

In regards to your comment, "and you need what.....that does not come with....how much is that...." you are spot on!

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

An interesting thing happened here: a large percentage of the responses were progressive press users presenting arguments why the OP “needs” a progressive. It almost reads like an intervention.
But the really interesting thing is, several respondents said they did not have, and would not have, a single stage press - and not one person tried to convince them otherwise.
Very interesting.

 

[Howa 9700]

Like many, I started on a single stage press, and like many, after loading a bunch of pistol ammo, immediately wanted something faster.

I resemble that remark.

So several months back began loading for 9mm. At first, just something to go bang and to develop loads. Low and slow......low volume, slow deliberate process. But once I settled on what I wanted, I went into production mode. Same single stage press, but now in greater volume. 50 pulls to size brass and knock out primers. 50 pulls to flare cases. 50 of something to seat primers. Then 50 pulls on a powder measure..........50 pulls to seat bullets and 50 more pulls to crimp the the flare. That is a lot of pullin and handling the cases. Outcome is very good, but that is a slow, tedious process.

So recently found myself setting up a Dillon 550. A few observations.

First one is that while the 550 is a beast of a machine.........if they gave you the machine you could still spend as much or more than it cost with all the ad ons they upsell. The caliber kits with shell plates, etc.......the strong mount, the plate base for strong mount, bullet bin, roller handle, dies, etc. It adds up fast.....and is also a bit confusing as it is not entirely clear what comes with what. I found a good solution with stock 550C, an Inline Fabrication mount (solves all kinds of mounting problems for a fraction of the cost) and the existing Lee 9mm dies. Also found out I can load 9mm or 357 Sig with same setup, only need one different set of the brass shell plate pins to make the switch.

After solving mounting problems.......initial setup went OK until I installing the fail safe return rod. The one shipped with the unit wasn't bent properly, so put things in a bind. As installed, it hung down about 15 degrees off plumb. Took a lot of research until I found a U tube that showed the problem and solution. A bit of bend and it took off running as it was supposed to.

Compared to the simplicity of a Lee auto drum, the Dillon powder measure seems to be a rickety rube golderg type device, but does seem to work ok. I have no idea how it would work (thinking of leaks) with microscopic dust type powders like True Blue or Accurate #5, but I'm using flakes that fill the case enough a double charge would be obvious.......and less likely to leak powder everywhere. So far, so good. When setting up the powder charge, do not forget to replace that little brass retainer button. Without it there to keep case in perfect alignment, the press has enough force to cut a case in half sideways. Don't ask how I know that.

Would also mention that the Dillon powder measure works like a single stage shotgun press. At rest, and during most operations, the powder measure cavity sits below the powder hopper. The bumping and vibration of the press helps settle the powder. This may or may not be a source of powder charge variations, but in my mind is inherently less accurate than a benchtop powder measure that at rest, the charge cavity is empty. There is a built in baffle, so that may be mitigated a bit. But the potential also points to a best practice of avoiding loading anything to the ragged edge of upper limits, as one little bump can put you over the top. BTW, the Lee auto drum seems to work the same way. At rest, charge cavity is under the hopper. Just the way they have to work.

When it comes to seating bullets, I followed directions that at the end......to fine tune it.......requires a case in the sizing die to balance out the force as would be the case.....errr situation.....when in progressive mode. Without that......in single stage mode.......the seating depth changes. Just something to be aware of.

But once you get past all the setup and learning curve issues, and go into action, the payoff is obvious. One pull = one round.


A few more observations and questions. Loading the primer tube seems to be a time consuming and tedious operation. I suspect a Double Alpha primer contraption is in my future. Can pay for it using savings created by Inline Fabrication mount.

So for you guys loading bottleneck rifle rounds in progressive mode, how do you deal with need for case trimming after sizing?

 

[BreechFace]

An interesting thing happened here: a large percentage of the responses were progressive press users presenting arguments why the OP “needs” a progressive. It almost reads like an intervention.
But the really interesting thing is, several respondents said they did not have, and would not have, a single stage press - and not one person tried to convince them otherwise.
Very interesting.

I hope my comments didn't come off in trying to convince the OP that he needs a progressive. That was not my intent. Only the person spending the money should determine what they need or want.

It sounds like the OP is content with his Lyman 8 turret and there was a time where I was as well, it felt like I improved a great bit in the efficiency and organization category moving from a Redding Big Boss II to my T7. I'm still new to the Dillon XL750, but can see I will really like it moving forward.

What caught my attention on the OP was the fact that he had people telling him that he might as well got a progressive rather than his turret. I find having both serves my desires well, better than a single stage. I like organization and the fact that I can store my dies at the ready for a specific caliber is a big reason why I like my T7 and XL750. I'm not getting die boxes in and out for my mainstay calibers; and specialty hunting calibers I have an empty T7 turret head that I take dies in and out of as needed throughout the year.

 

[LV Gun]

I started out with a C&H C press the one you had to lift up on the handle , my father in law gave it to me when I started reloading used that for about 3 years . I then wanted to load faster and bought a red base Lee Value Turret press now 28 years old and still use it. In that time frame I got a SDB which I eventually sold it just wasn’t for me. Replaced it with a Lee Classic Cast Turret I now have 2 turret presses and really like them and I like the fact the turret’s interchange between presses but I keep them dedicated to each press 4 calibers on one press 5 on the other. It’s not that I don’t like progressive presses there just not for me just to much going on at once, I like more control over my loading and l don’t load fast. We all have different tastes in what we like that is why there are so many choices in presses. I don’t worry about what others say I like Lee Turret presses and will be replacing my old turret press with another Lee Turret press in the new year. Everything I have is Lee there are no right or wrong choices just buy what you like and what fits what you do.

 

[mcb]

Another progressive press lover here. I have a Dillon XL 650. I load almost everything on it. I have loaded nearly 40,000 rds of 40S&W on it not too mention roughly a dozen more cartridges. I do have an old CH 3 position press. I currently only load 44 mag and 455 Webley on it though it will probably get tagged for 30 RAR if I ever use up my stock pile of that.

I like the utility of a simple manual press for somethings but if the volume is more than a box or two a year I invest in the extra parts to move the dies to the Dillon.

 

[Howa 9700]

Forgot to mention, Dillion also recommends......make that warns.......against using any large stick powders like IMR 4350 or 4064. Won't measure right......won't feed right. FWIW. Not sure how users deal with that. My solution will be to stick to a single stage for rifles. Low volume....high precision operation for me.

 

[higgite]

An interesting thing happened here: a large percentage of the responses were progressive press users presenting arguments why the OP “needs” a progressive. It almost reads like an intervention.
But the really interesting thing is, several respondents said they did not have, and would not have, a single stage press - and not one person tried to convince them otherwise.
Very interesting.

Well, the topic is "Is it bad I don't think I'd like a progressive press?", which sort of sounds like the OP is fishing for someone to convince him otherwise. Besides, this is the internet. That's what we do.

 

[Outlaw75]

An interesting thing happened here: a large percentage of the responses were progressive press users presenting arguments why the OP “needs” a progressive. It almost reads like an intervention.
But the really interesting thing is, several respondents said they did not have, and would not have, a single stage press - and not one person tried to convince them otherwise.
Very interesting.

You must be new to the internets. I've seen that happen on every forum I've ever been on for a variety of different interests I've had over the years.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

Well, the topic is "Is it bad I don't think I'd like a progressive press?", which sort of sounds like the OP is fishing for someone to convince him otherwise. Besides, this is the internet. That's what we do.

Never said it was good or bad, just interesting. Probably goes along with the old saying about misery loving company.

 

[Telum Pisces]

I have been loading from the beginning from a standard old rock chucker press and still do so today. No turret or progressive anything on my bench. I enjoy it for how slow it is. I have found myself doing things the slow/old way in a lot of things because it's about the process and not about how fast I can do things these days.

 

[BreechFace]

So for you guys loading bottleneck rifle rounds in progressive mode, how do you deal with need for case trimming after sizing?

How I currently deal with bottleneck cartridges, take out the inards of my dies (dies still maintain their zero) in the tool head except for the sizing die, add a swager in the next hole in line and run the brass through. Then I use a WFT trimmer off the press, chamfer and debur, then reload into the case feeder. Not ideal but still much faster than a turret or single stage.


There are size and trim setups that can be done on a progressive, but it's $$$. It still comes down to a separate operation. First one disables the primer shuttle (easy to do), and then usually one is sizing and decapping in #1, #2/3 empty, #4 trimmer and finish size/trimmer, #5 Neck sizing die.

I have never done the above, but that is how I've seen it done. One can still use the case feeder, but it is all a separate operation.

Here is a video of the sizing and trimming operation, but he is missing the neck sizing at the end.

 

[R44 flyer]

After mounting my first single stage to a bench, then a couple months later mounting my Lyman 8-turrent (Yes it took me this long before finally having a bench for it) I really believe the turrent to be my final stage in reloading.
I've considered a Dillion RL-450 because that looks like a good sturdy press, but I don't think i'd actually set one up. After years of hand press, the 8-turrent is a massive improvement and it alone makes reloading alot faster. One thing I learned with my first round with the 8-turrent is how much more variables of error it gives you. There were times the primer wasn't fully seated, I needed to pay close attention and felt like I didn't have nearly as much control over the quality of my rounds as I did with the hand press and later single stage.
So I don't see me having much of a use for a progressive press. Only that people say you might as well get a progressive and not bother with a turrent press but honestly I really like the turrent press. Why is the turrent press shunned and not as preferred?
That said I may still look for a Dillion RL-450 (yes the 450 not the 550) if I can find one brand new in the box

I think Lee Precision agrees with your thinking. On the last pages of my new Modern Reloading John says they are about to release a new turret press. Interesting it will be available in 3,4,5 and 6 hole turrets.

 

[Buzznrose]

The best thing about using a progressive press (550C for me) is if you have to stop in the middle of loading ammo, you are NOT left with a bunch of shells filled with powder (if you get that far).

Once I’m set up and start reloading, the third or fourth pull of the handle, I crank out a loaded round. Every crank after that, I drop another finished round in the hopper.

If my wife calls me and I have to go, in two or three more pulls on the lever (less than a minute), I’ll have cleared all my primed brass (on the press) into loaded rounds. And I don’t need to worry about where I left off or what shells have powder/primers/etc.

I deprime on a single stage using a Lee decapping die. But loading is done on the progressive, and I bought the 550 to do both rifle and pistol, at least for now.

 

[Heir Kommt Die Sonne]

a large percentage of the responses were progressive press users presenting arguments why the OP “needs” a progressive. It almost reads like an intervention.

No I do not mind at all. I like the converse. The title may have been a little edging on the "Please Doooon't tell me I need a progressive~" but I really just wanted the pros and cons neatly laid out in this thread. So far has been successful. Still adamant about my Lyman 8 but I am considering more getting that Dillion progressive, in case I do ever decide to have one. But I see myself having a approach where I'll have it set up for 2 calibers and only use it for those 2 (probably 9mm and 40 S&W)
One observation I already had, and this thread confirms it, is most experienced reloaders still recommend keeping a sturdy single stage around, in case there is a operation or a caliber you need a more precise loading for. It is because of this I'll always have a single stage around, whether or not I'll actually use it (only used the Lee single stage setup for a couple months before setting up my Lyman).

Most of us tend to have different feels on the different calibers, like rifle calibers just "feel" like something we'd prefer to slow down and take our time with, and auto calibers are something we just "Feel" we'd prefer a progressive for. Like 9mm I see as a default progressive press caliber, but .38 special I dont see a need for that.
The fact we have control over our ammo output and can make anything for what we need speaks volumes, and is the biggest pro that reloading has.
An aspect of reloading that I really like is just the trying new things, thing. And getting a progressive I guess represents that, just trying something new. I may not feel I truly need one, but it's a fun prospect.

 

[Heir Kommt Die Sonne]

I could never go back from progressive.
Brass prep sucks up a lot of my time as it is, I do resize on a single die in the toolhead on my Dillon 550B before Brass prep, though. All pistol and MSR rifle rounds is 99.5% of what I shoot.

Single stage great for low volume rifle rounds, especially the big thick walled magnums. Im actually having a friend resize my 300 WSMs on his single stage press for me. I've accumulated (almost) a total of 50 pcs of spent casings in 15 years! The best part is I can recall the specific occasions I fired about 20 of these, and each one resulted in an instant kill. The other 25 were fired at the range sighting in (about 3 per year) which were uneventful. I also borrowed it to my Brother who used it on 2 hunts and killed 2 deer one supposedly at 300 yds, and a friend killed his first Mule deer with it at 200 yds, If this doesn't qualify as low volume, I don't know what does! The fact all brass made it back is pretty amazing, and this rifle has basically legendary status, thanks to being accurate and well.....truth be told, a little overpowered for what it has been used for. Winchester really got it right on their "Fail Safe" product line I guess. View attachment 1186700

What bullets are those ?

 

[Palladan44]

What bullets are those ?

150gr Winchester "Fail Safe" Ballistic Silvertips going about 3,300. Deer are dead before they hit the ground, it's ridiculous.

 

[BreechFace]

One observation I already had, and this thread confirms it, is most experienced reloaders still recommend keeping a sturdy single stage around, in case there is a operation or a caliber you need a more precise loading for. It is because of this I'll always have a single stage around, whether or not I'll actually use it (only used the Lee single stage setup for a couple months before setting up my Lyman).

I do still have a Hornady single stage press that is on a mobile stand that I can clamp down if I want to reload away from home. It's a no brainer to always have a single stage press, they can be found for cheap and there are still operations or times that it gets used. One already has the dies and extra items needed, a single stage press is just $80-100 used and it's just parking money, it can be sold down the road for the same cost if necessary.

 

[lightman]

Personally I see it as a need vs a like. I do love my 550 but I am using it less and less as time goes by. I would love to have a Star but ...............!

 

[AJC1]

I went from rcbs single stage to T-7 to Wilson chamber seating dies. I don't know if you consider that a side step or a step backwards. I fancy trying a 550, but I don't think it's going to be this massive leap forward. The limit of progressive for me is trimming and dealing with military crimped primer pockets. The big Dillons have trimmers available but now we're talking big money. I load enough by volume to justify almost anything. I would spend a lot less time pulling the handle if I went progressive.

 

[Howa 9700]

Something I discovered using my single stage that may have direct benefit on progressives is the similarity of many bullet and powder combinations. Examples would be Hornady 124 grain XTP and Precision Delta V1 JHP. The latter is 10 thousands longer but otherwise almost identical and will seat to exact same depth with no change to the seating stem. In short, nearly 100% interchangeable. And with powders like Unique and Herco or BE-86 and Power Pistol, the same setting on a powder measure gives very similar drops......usually within .1 or .2 grains. Bottom line is as long as you stay away from the extremes, there are a lot of loads that can be developed using same settings on the loader. Just load the powder and go.

Plan is to develop a list of potential combinations that one can load just as it sits. No changes needed at all. And potentially, that list is really long.

 

[gifbohane]

I lusted after a Dillon for years and certainly I can afford one. I will not buy a Dillon and certainly not any other "progressive" press. My primary reason- fear of error and a kaboom.

I will continue to load on a T7 indefinitely. It meets my needs 100%.