Is it legal to make and use a photocopy of my ccw

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vamo

vamo

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Maybe this is kind of a dumb question, but I can't seem to find anything saying I cant do it. Though I can see what issues it might cause if the answer is yes.

First I live in Missouri. And my question as stated in the title is can I make a photocopy of my ccw and use that to carry. I'd like to do this because I don't always carry my wallet when I'm just out for a walk. I don't want to remove it from my wallet out of concern that I may forget to return it. The permit is 1 sided.
 
They are issued by your county Sheriff. I'm guessing, note I said guessing, that locally it wouldn't be an issue because you could always say "follow me home and I'll show you the original".
Have you ever been on the Missouri Carry discussion board? Ask there.
 
I can tell you that here in VA, they are just a printed piece of paper, no picture, and the county recommends you get it laminated.
Most folks I know keep a scanned copy and print out replacements as needed. Once laminated, there is no way to tell the original from the copies.
 
I echo asking the issuing authority in your state.

In my state of AL, I make a copy of my permit to put in my workout belt. The belt is sweat proof but it still gets crumpled up and I keep the "nice" one in my wallet.
 
Check with a lawyer in your state. When I got my first carry permit in Virginia all it was was a court order on an 8 1/2 x 11 sheet of paper. It was common practice to keep the original at home and carry a reduced size photocopy in your wallet. Now the permit is on a preprinted card the size of a credit card.
 
Our License to Carry is issued by Indiana State Police. I called them. The guy answered my question with a question. He said "You don't copy your driver's license do you?" I'm assuming he meant to don't do it.
 
PA has changed to a "credit card", so a photocopy is no longer possible (I think).... Originally, my first couple of PA licenses were almost too flimsy to carry.

OH's always used a sort of credit card.

Unfortunately, OH insists that you have to carry the card more or less at all times - at least when you're carrying - and there are some draconian penalties if you don't. (You can also get strung out if you fail to notify an Officer when carrying promptly, where "promptly" is not defined!.)

Kinda silly, but the guys who made up these rules either were trying to mess us up, or simply didn't understand....

Regards,
 
SMMAssociates said:
Unfortunately, OH insists that you have to carry the card more or less at all times - at least when you're carrying - and there are some draconian penalties if you don't.
Click to expand...

Nope, it's a minor misdemeanor.

(2) If a person being arrested for a violation of division (A)(2) of this section promptly produces a valid concealed handgun license, and if at the time of the violation the person was not knowingly in a place described in division (B) of section 2923.126 of the Revised Code, the officer shall not arrest the person for a violation of that division. If the person is not able to promptly produce any concealed handgun license and if the person is not in a place described in that section, the officer may arrest the person for a violation of that division, and the offender shall be punished as follows:

(a) The offender shall be guilty of a minor misdemeanor if both of the following apply:

(i) Within ten days after the arrest, the offender presents a concealed handgun license, which license was valid at the time of the arrest to the law enforcement agency that employs the arresting officer.

(ii) At the time of the arrest, the offender was not knowingly in a place described in division (B) of section 2923.126 of the Revised Code.
Click to expand...

http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/2923.12
 
I was surprised when I had to renew my MO permit for an address change at how simple the new ones were. Just b&w printing on light card stock. No picture, just a reproduction of the MO seal and a photocopy of the Sheriff's signature.

I'm not being flippant Vamo, nor am I speaking to the legality of what you propose, but if you scanned the thing, and printed it to similar light card stock, I don't see how an officer could even tell the difference. The stock is not special, not watermarked or anything else.

Looking at mine, I think I will scan it in any event. It is such marginal quality that I notice the printing is wearing just from sitting next to other cards in my wallet.

It might be useful to be able to prove that one did have one if the original was destroyed or defaced - which I could see happening. If you got caught in a downpour I could see the thing disintegrating if it was thoroughly drenched.
 
rtroha:

I can't find it right now, but isn't there a suspension (30 days?) hiding in there someplace?

IAC, you still have to appear someplace to clear it up....

Regards,
 
That's probably the best question I've ever seen on a gun website!:D

My TN CCW is brand-new (my first anywhere), and I keep the plastic card in a large sandwich bag, visible in front of both handguns (in the safe).

I had wondered how easily the CCW can be replaced, and at what cost:confused:.
 
I can tell you that here in VA, they are just a printed piece of paper, no picture, and the county recommends you get it laminated.
Most folks I know keep a scanned copy and print out replacements as needed. Once laminated, there is no way to tell the original from the copies.
Click to expand...

That may vary from one courthouse to another.

In Fairfax, the permit is issued with:
  • Judge's "wet-ink" signature
  • Permitee's "wet-ink" signature
  • perforated edge that has a ribbed texture
  • Seal of the Commonwealth on the back side

I can usually tell a wet-ink signature from a photocopy, even if the signature lies beneath clear laminate.

The tear-off form used for printing could probably be purchased from a stationer.

Virginia Code §1-505 talks about restrictions on use of the Seal of the Commonwealth
http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+1-505

"§ 1-505. Seals deemed property of Commonwealth; unauthorized use; penalty.

The seals of the Commonwealth shall be deemed the property of the Commonwealth; and no persons shall exhibit, display, or in any manner utilize the seals or any facsimile or representation of the seals of the Commonwealth for nongovernmental purposes unless such use is specifically authorized by law.

Except for the authorized commercial use of the seal as provided in § 2.2-122, any person violating the provisions of this section shall be punished by a fine of not more than $100, or by imprisonment for not more than 30 days or both."
 
Considering that you're unlikely to ever need to present the permit in the first place ... ...
... Well, I'd carry something durable and not worry about it.

This isn't legal advice or anything like that, just my opinion. But to date I haven't needed the card, and when I contacted my county sheriff (in Ohio) about updating the address on the card they simply didn't care.

It is pretty lame that they issue a permit in Missouri that isn't good for wallet carry.
 
When I get a new CHP I make four or five copies. I put the new CHP in my wallet, a copy in the glove box of the car, with a copy of my military photo id. I put the pair of copies in the glove box of the truck, in my waterproof box I keep in the hold of the kayak, along with a copy of my lifetime fishing license. There is a copy of the id and the chp in my fanny pack.

This way if I forget my wallet, I'll always have an id and my chp....
I have yet to forget my wallet, but you never know.

To get the CHP replaced here, you go to the clerk of the circuit court and ask VERY nicely... she pulls the copy from your file while asking "how's the wife and them?" and Xerox's it. She turns back around and trims the copy to size and hands it to you. You pay her five dollars. DAMHIKT - but it's the reason I started making copies. ;-)

... Of course, I live in a very SMALL county and the population is about 15,000.

When I was working patrol, the clerk of the circuit court didn't actually speak to the public, the spoke to one of her jr clerks, and they would take your written request for her attention. LOL. (350,000 in that county) A replacement CHP for her citizen's would take a week at minimum. :)
 
t is pretty lame that they issue a permit in Missouri that isn't good for wallet carry.
Click to expand...

My permit is actually fine for wallet carry I just like to travel lightly when I'm jogging or walking my dog, would like to have nothing in my pockets except a light handgun and the ccw just incase. And I don't want to take it out of my wallet because there is a very good chance I'd forget to return it.

But I digress, thank you all for the responses and it seems that a call to the sheriff would be in order before relying on a photocopy.
 
In my case, my earlier PA licenses, being sort of double-sized, could be folded in half for convenient pocket carry. Can't recall where I saw it, but I wasn't the first guy to copy it half-sized and carry that. While cleaning out a wallet the other night, I noticed that I'd given the clerk at Lawrence County one of the copies during my latest renewal. (PA has gone over to a "credit card" type license and no more mail-order. OH started issuing licenses in 2004, and has never had mail-order or non-resident, for that matter, and has always had a credit-card type license. Some OH counties have chosen better materials than others, though.)

My major issue is similar to vamo's - I pretty much carry 24/7/365, but my wallet and licenses are in my dress pants. I really don't want to juggle them, between outfits, but OH law pretty much insists that you have the card on you if you're carrying, with no apparent "out" for your own property. I'm afraid that I'll go someplace and leave my licenses at home....

(I suppose this is one of those "always put the car keys in a dish at the back door" or something like that, but then I get to worry about family members and the cats. I don't think the dog would notice :D. The end result, though, pretty much says I must carry the paperwork with the gun whenever I'm carrying the gun, Since I carry three different guns, normally, I can't even leave the paperwork with the guns, and prefer not to have it on me when I'm wearing a bathrobe :)....)

If an LEO has an MDT, he should already know (or easily be able to find out) whether you have a license or not. Getting that info from the Dispatcher should be almost as easy. 'Course, the Dispatcher's computer (or link to Ohio's computer systems) could be down, or the Officer may not have access, but punishing us because it takes a few minutes to verify the license is really just yet another way to make criminals out of Law Abiding Citizens....

(In OH, most of us call it a "license". "Permit" presumes that some "Official" has allowed us to carry. "License" presumes that our rights and skills have simply been recognized.)

You can't fake a credit card type license all that easily for the most part. If you're carrying a license that can easily be copied, it might be worth the effort, though, but IMHO, it's kinda risky.

Regards,
 
Given that the penalty for having been issued a valid CCW but not presenting it when demanded is the following:

571.121. 1. Any person issued a concealed carry permit pursuant to sections 571.101 to 71.121 shall carry the concealed carry permit at all times the person is carrying a concealed firearm and shall display the concealed carry permit upon the request of any peace officer. Failure to comply with this subsection shall not be a criminal offense but the concealed carry permit holder may be issued a citation for an amount not to exceed thirty-five dollars."

My non-legal advice if you're worried about it is to photocopy it, laminnate or put on a lanyard or whatever the copy, and carry that when you're not carrying your wallet - but understand that it does not substitute as your license so you could suffer the penalty outlined in 571.121. 1


You would be carrying it solely as a convenience to a peace officer as it has your county and permit number on it. So in essence it could speed along them recognizing you as having a valid ccw vs. someone without it carrying concealed - in other words, automatically a felon. Plus, maybe they will waive the fine.
 
In my State (IN) I have been told that it is not permitted to make a copy of your license or carry one but everybody I know does and most cops are not able to tell the difference. If printed on the same type and color of paper (ours are pink) they are indistinguishable from the original. Most cops I know have told me that as long as they can run the number and have it come back as valid and current they don't really care.
 
Regarding W.E.G.'s post:

"That may vary from one courthouse to another.
In Fairfax, the permit is issued with:

Judge's "wet-ink" signature
Permitee's "wet-ink" signature
perforated edge that has a ribbed texture
Seal of the Commonwealth on the back side
I can usually tell a wet-ink signature from a photocopy, even if the signature lies beneath clear laminate.
The tear-off form used for printing could probably be purchased from a stationer.
Virginia Code §1-505 talks about restrictions on use of the Seal of the Commonwealth
http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp...?000+cod+1-505
"§ 1-505. Seals deemed property of Commonwealth; unauthorized use; penalty.
The seals of the Commonwealth shall be deemed the property of the Commonwealth; and no persons shall exhibit, display, or in any manner utilize the seals or any facsimile or representation of the seals of the Commonwealth for nongovernmental purposes unless such use is specifically authorized by law.
Except for the authorized commercial use of the seal as provided in § 2.2-122, any person violating the provisions of this section shall be punished by a fine of not more than $100, or by imprisonment for not more than 30 days or both.""

This may be correct in VA, but if you don't have your CHP on you it's a $25 fine if you don't have your permit on you while carrying and for some reason law enforcement takes enough interest to charge you. Why worry?
That's not to say you shouldn't try to have it on you any time you're out.
 
Last edited:
marv said:
Our License to Carry is issued by Indiana State Police. I called them. The guy answered my question with a question. He said "You don't copy your driver's license do you?" I'm assuming he meant to don't do it.
Click to expand...
No, I don't, but my doctors' office (multiple) , and others do , for picture ID in their records.
 
From what you say, I would assume there is no photo on your permit. So...If I was the cop that stopped you, that permit without your photo, doesn't prove who you are. I would assume you also need to at least carry your DL along with the permit. So you might as well just carry the whole wallet.
 
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