Is it necessary to flare a 1911's ejection port for reliability?

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The details are on the Autoloaders place. Check it out.

I'm sorry, I'm confused. :confused:

The details of what?

I don't see anything over in autoloaders about the guide rod and the barrel feet.

What thread is it?
 
Humm < scratches head>

Okay I own one newfangled drastic plastic pistol. Granted is the only plastic gun I own and will be my last one. It is the "newest" handgun I own btw.

Okay how come my Keltec P-11 does not have a flared ejection port? :D

aw crap...running for the ditch...

Somebody help Old Fuff up ...he might have hurt himself falling off his chair laughing so hard :p

Hey...ya know what? My '28 DS and this here K frame don't have a lowered or flared dealie either.... :eek: :D
 
Function: Please Read Carefully

Dave said earlier:

"The guide rod is in contact with the link at all times...until the slide moves."
(paraphrased)
_________________________

Okay... Lemme take it real slow...I think Dave's a mite confused about how this thing works.

When the gun fires, the slide and barrel move rearward together for a short distance and the barrel begins to unlock because the link swings forward of vertical and stops the barrel's rearward movement and forces it to change direction downward. It accomplishes this feat because the link pivots to allow the barrel to move the short distance required to get the lower lug off the slidestop pin. The link pivots BECAUSE the barrel moves backward away from it...not because something pushes it (the link) forward. There is no driving force on the link to swing it forward. It's just along for the ride until the barrel moves backward. Then it does its thing. If the link can't swing for whatever reason, the barrel can't unlock because the lower lug can't get off the slidestop pin...BECAUSE...the link would hold the pin to the back radius of the lug feet.

Movin' along to Technical Part Deux...

When the slide moves rearward in recoil, it compresses the recoil spring
into the FRONT of the guide rod head...therefore... whatever the BACK of the guide rod head is touching will come under increasing tension as the spring compresses.. If the guide rod is touching the front of the link, it will impede the ability of the link to swing forward of vertical...and the farther the slide moves, the more it will impede that function because of the recoil spring's increasing compression and loading against the FRONT of the guide rod head...which brings us back to square one: IF THE LINK CAN'T SWING FORWARD OF VERTICAL, THE BARREL CAN'T UNOCK FROM THE SLIDE AND THE GUN WILL NOT FUNCTION.

Cheers!
 
OK Tuner , I give up! I guess you can't see where the big part of the guide rod rests on the lugs and the little button in the middle is resting on the link. This guide rod did not have enough metal there to grind a slope in it like we do the 5" ones. I would have destroyed it if I tried to modify it. It works great though, in spite of it being all wrong.
 
Give up??

NOOO! Not when you're so close to understanding!

The guide rod head...the flange...rests against the link when the slide is off the frame. When you slip it onto the frame, the flange stops against the
shoulder in the back end of the spring tunnel, and that keeps it forward of the link and the front of the lower lug. It has to, because the link needs room to swing forward. If the butt-end of the rod is resting dead on the link when the slide is on the frame...the link can't move...the barrel can't unlock, and the gun won't function.

Wasn't that easy? :cool:
 
Dave ...

And the rest of you folks can do this at home too ... Even without adult supervision if you’re over 21 ...

Unload and then field strip your pistol and remove the recoil spring assembly from the slide. Then slide it into the front of the frame. Notice that the large flange on the back of the recoil spring guide comes up against a shoulder that’s even with the front of the frame’s slide rails. At this point the guide can’t move any further back. :eek:

The barrel lug and link are well behind the back of the recoil spring guide, and because the guide is butted up against a shoulder it cannot move back far enough to reach the lug and link. :scrutiny:

When you remove the slide, the recoil spring assembly along with its full-length rod, it can indeed move up against the lug and link, but the guide isn’t in this position when the gun is assembled. :rolleyes:

Now go study on this for a while, and then come back. If necessary I will draw you a picture. :D :D

Fuff, the 1911 Guru (Junior Grade).
 
Oh, I see, I see, I see!

And I found a bunch of pictures, drawings, starting on page 12 of Volume II of Kuhhausen, that show exactly that!

They clearly show space between the head of the guide rod and the link, and the show a shoulder that would prevent the guide rod head from ever touching the link when the weapon is assembled.

I love understanding... :D

It does bring us back to the original question, though...

What, then, caused the marks on the barrel feet in the Capn's gun?
 
Sounds like fireworks with all them brains going "click" out there....

They call me "Captain Click".

No relation to Captain Crunch. He's a captain of a ship, and my people don't float. :D
 
Click

I remember when Jammer's click happened. :cool:

Ahhhh! The 1911 Colt-Browning autopistol. So simple, yet so complex. Seems like it's forever givin' up "new" secrets...Almost like seein' it for the very first time each time we pick it up. :)
 
75042766.gif

Or the reason for this?

75042228.gif

Note where the Shok-Buff is. The back of the guide rod hits the frame, not the front. Oh well, who could argue with the Old Fuff and Tuner. That button is right up against the link at the bottom part of it. The minute the gun is fired, the guide rod leaves the link and pin and comes back when the gun goes into battery again. The only time it's close is when it's in battery.
 
WHAT??

>> That button is right up against the link at the bottom part of it. The minute the gun is fired, the guide rod leaves the link and pin.<<

No No No...The guide rod doesn't move forward. It's being hammered backward by the slide compressing the recoil spring. The barrel moves backward and causes the link to pivot. If the guide rod is being pushed into the link by the recoil spring compression, the link can't pivot forward because the guide rod would be pushing harder and harder on it as the slide moves rearward.

The guide rod flange sits on an abutment in the frame and will not let the spring push it further back into the link, as you suggested. If you cut the abutment further back to cause the end of the rod to hit the link, your gun wouldn't function.

Slowly...from the top:

Guide rod is attached to the flange. Whatever force acts on the flange acts on the rod equally. If the rod is free to move against the link, as you insist,
the link is blocked from movement by the increasing spring tension.

Recoil spring is against the flange. Recoil spring compresses, and exerts increasing force on the flange. More rearward force on the flange means more rearward force on the whole rod, including the button that is against the link.

If the end of the rod is pushing on the link, the link can't pivot. If the link can't pivot, the barrel can't unlock.

Your rod is touching the link when the top-end is off the frame. When you put it together, the rod sits forward of the link. In this pistol, it's not a lot, but it's there. When the gun fires, the barrel moves backward and takes the
top of the link with it, and the link will pivot at the bottom because the lower lug and the bottom of the link are now both farther away from the end of the rod. Not because the rod moved...Because the barrel moved. The rod can't move backward OR forward. Try it!
 
Lookin' Close

I see what you're talkin' about here, Cap'n. I know that the rod touches the link when the top-end's off the frame. I'm with ya on that. It just ain't gonna touch it when the gun is together.

Now...what it seemed like you were implyin' was that the guide rod was loading against the link when the gun was together and in battery...and that can't be. Even if there's no sctive loading via the guide rod and recoil spring,
if the rod end is against the link when the gun fires, the link doesn't have enough clearance to swing forward without hitting the end of the rod, no matter what kind of relief angle you have on the rod.

Ask a couple of fools who...in years long past...got the bright idea to cut the
spring tunnel deeper so that we could have a buffer AND full slide travel.
Guess what. The link couldn't swing forward...The barrel couldn't unlock...and the gun wouldn't function.

Your guide rod ain't touchin' the link when the slide's on the frame the way it is when you've just got the top-end on the table. Won't work...
 
If you look at the 1911 frame, you'll see that the slide stop pin hole is right at the thick part of the frame where the barrel goes to bed (sweet dreams).
Just forward of that thick part is where the guide rod head rests against.

That slot in the frame at that spot, where the slide stop pin hole is, is where the link and lower lugs fit into. So there is no way the guide rod can contact the link or lower lugs..........WHEN PUT TOGETHER........ :banghead:

Although Cap'n Bling, you show a very interesting pic 2 posts ago, with your caption saying " What might this be?" I agree with that statement, what might that be?

There's some slot in the (guessing here) end of a guide rod that is resting against the link. What is that? Please remove it from where you have it and give us a better look at it. And why is that there? What function.......or possibly (mal) in this case...........does it have?


Also the comment about the shok-buff has me confused....... :confused:

The pic showing the buff.........yes, its in its proper place. Sandwiched between the guide rod head and recoil spring, as the spring tunnel on the slide makes contact with it..........as its supossed to...........

Talk about a thread getting off course..............I believe it started with port flaring........and now we've digressed into basic function of the 1911.
I shudder the thought of someone working on a 1911 without basic knowledge of how the thing works........ :what:
 
What might this be? (Post #63)

I have one that is the same or similar to it. It was made by a company in Scottsdale, Arizona many, many years ago. A "New School" design of course, it eliminated the flange and was designed to rest againist the barrel lug and cam the barrel into engagement. Like many such gadgets is didn't work well and soon disapeared from the market. I suspect that few were ever seen beyond the greater Phoenix area, and it is understandable that few if any of you has ever seen one.
 
New-Fangled Gadget

I've seen one Fuff...Owned one as a matter of fact. Found it at a gun show and the price was dirt cheap. I thought it was interestin' and tried it out in a gun. Didn't work. Go back to the barrel lockin' up on the lug and pin and it works...Try to lock it with any other means, and it won't. The Dwyer thing was probably the best of the "Link-Lock" ideas....but those don't do nearly as well as just lockin' the gun up like it's supposed to be. Wichaka...The areas beside the slot push on the pin and force it back into the lug radius. The slot
gives the link room to pivot. That clearance has to be there. If the link itself is forced into the battery position by the rod, the barrel can't get far enough from it to let the link move. We're talkin' a tenth of an inch or less.

As far as the end of the guide rod bein' set back far enough to actually force the link into the back of the lug...It ain't happenin', Cap'n. The frame abutment keeps it forward far enough to give the link enough "swing" clearance to unlock the barrel. It's not a lot of clearance in the "Short Swords"...but it's still gotta be there. The angle on the end of the rod and flange provides a little fudge factor.

Need proof? Anybody with a Commander or shorter pistol with a FLGR in it...
Pop the slidestop out and watch the slide jump forward...Then watch the link through the hole when ya go to reinstall it. Watch the link loosen up when the slide comes back far enough to put tension back on the guide rod flange
and and hold it forward of the link.
 
Here's the best drawing I could come up with online.

I'll keep looking, and see if I can come up with another drawing.

It clearly shows the space between the head of the guide rod and the link, as well as the ledge in the receiver that keeps the guide rod from touching the link.

The picture is here.

Now, is there an answer from the assembled Greybeards?

What caused the marks on Sample's barrel feet, since we've established that it wasn't the head of the guide rod?
 
Tuner;
The areas beside the slot push on the pin and force it back into the lug radius. :confused:

The only thing I was gettin' at, is that the slot in the frame is for the link & lower lugs to fit into. And that abutment in the frame keeps the guide rod head at bay from contacting the above........

But if Bling is using one of them anti-JMB gizmos, then I guess that it would ride against the link? Yet, he also shows pics of regular type guide rod heads, and still says it makes contact with the link........?

I think I'm going to pull out of this one before I start sayin' things like........the trigger bow contacts the sear directly, IF the disconnect is modified properly........ :eek: :uhoh: :scrutiny:
And before I start checkering my sear spring, polishing the rails on the MS Housing, and put a jewled finish on the trigger bow! :what:
 
What? Where? How?

Jammer asked:

What caused the marks, since we've established that it wasn't the head of the guide rod?

The slidestop pin. Hard to tell the extent on the pictures, but it's pretty typical of what I see on guns that have the barrel standin' that high on the link. The impact of the slide and barrel on the RTB causes the pin to hit
near the tips of the lug feet where they're thin. I also see it on guns that have been played with by letting the slide slam to battery without ammunition
to drag momentum off the slide. Bad JuJu.
__________________________

Fuff...I can't remember to save me what the name of that little trick was.
It was an ingenious solution to a non-existent problem like so many other
gadgets that we see for the 1911 these days...or a band-aid cure for a problem that should be corrected the right way.
__________________________

Easy Wichaka...Easy lad! The "Bait and Switch" routine between those two
pictures were doubtless just for illustrative purposes.

Gotta run! Cats ta kill and contracts ta fill today! Gonna be a long one.

Cheers!
 
Hold!

Rather than continuing to use bandwidth on this, let's see if we can reach a quick conclusion and move on.

Dave...What you're describing:

>>Let me explain to you that those marks I showed you are where they are supposed to be. Those marks are from the guide rod pushing the link into place when the gun returns to battery.<<

Ain't gonna happen. It's a mechanical impossibility.

Let's try a little experiment...shall we? Easy one. Anybody can do it.

Find a .323 diameter rod that will butt against the front of the link and protrude from the end of the frame and slide. (An inverted GM FLGR in a Commander-sized pistol will do.) Assemble the gun without the recoil system. Push the rod against the edge of a table so that you're driving the link and pin back into the barrel feet. Now...Try to pull the slide backward
while increasing the pressure on the rod to simulate the slide compressing the recoil spring.

Bet it won't happen.

If the subscribers would like a semi-lengthy breakdown and explanation, I'll provide one via PM or on an open discussion...Please advise which is preferred.

Regards...aaaaannnnnd out!

Tuner
 
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