Is it worth reloading 357 magnum?

[Mstafford88]

My dad is pretty stoked now that he has a red dot on his 357 mag and wants to take it deer hunting (he’s got the skills, no worries about a clean shot there)

So I already make him .38spcl for plinking which drill 8” plates at 50 yards just using a turret press and knocking out plinker rounds. But we talked a little about making some 357 mag for him to hunt with. He has a handful of store bought hornady hunting loads that seem to shoot well.

Ok now that the backstory is out of the way here’s my question and some of our conversation/ consideration went:

1: We would have to buy brass, primers and projectiles. (I usually don’t have to buy brass, I got access to everything I need except 357).

2: I would likely treat it like a rifle round. Weigh out each charge by hand, trim, chamfer, debur, etc.

My comment to him was, with the cost and time going in to it and not really knowing if it’ll shoot much better than the store bought stuff, it may not be worth it, since he won’t go thru box after box of it. And frankly, I don’t know the first thing about 357 mag loading. (Is it just as consistent with a turret press, crimp/no crimp etc etc.)

So my question I guess is: for those who load 357mag for hunting only, is it worth all the effort?

 

[snowman357]

If your loading only a few for hunting and that is all better to just buy 2 boxes. If you enjoy reloading and want to use your own for hunting then go ahead.

 

[tominboise]

What he said....

 

[Slamfire]

It is almost as if you are asking Alcoholics United whether you should take a drink. The answer would of course be yes, imbibe till you fall out of your chair!

Whether reloading is economical really depends on how many rounds of 357 Magnum you plan to shoot and reload. The equipment, press, dies, shell holders, etc, are not cheap. But it seems you already have the press and equipment to load 38 Special. Your equipment is sunk cost.

While I have 357 Magnum dies, I recall they came with spacers to put under the locking nuts so they could be set up for 38 Special, but also used for 357 Magnum. I don't think the spacer is needed for the sizing die, but surely would be needed for the belling and seating die.

Cases, have the old man keep his fired cases. Or look around for once fired 357 Magnum cases.

Reloading 357 Magnum cases is not difficult, no more than 38 Special cases. You don't need to trim. I had issues with the nickel coating scraping off nickeled cases in a carbide die, that ended when I lubed those cases, and made sizing effortless. All of my charges were dumped from a Dillon powder horn. My two primary powders were H110, a ball powder, and 2400 which is a granulated powder. I have a bunch of AA#9 which is a very fine ball powder, and based on how well H110 and AA#9 threw, I cannot imagine any need for weighing. And ditto for 2400. It throws very well.

W296 is the exact same powder as H110. So the data below is valid for H110. H110 is not flexible, it is pedal to the metal or nothing. Magnum loads only. Accurate Arms 2400 is more flexible, allows some reduction. I just used Skeeter Skelton's 38 Special load of a 158 grain lead bullet with 13.5 grains 2400, but in a 357 Magnum case. That load shot great.

I did not try to duplicate factory velocities. Older 357 Magnum was exceedingly hot. Factories will always be able to mix powder lots (if they want) or order special powders, so they can achieve the highest velocity and yet meet pressures. We reloaders are loading in quantum units, though 2400 and H110 are outstanding 357 Magnum powders and gave me equivalent velocities just under max. Maximum being sticky extraction. Just looked at my chronograph data, not all factory ammunition moves as fast as my reloads. Not sure if that is a good thing or not.

Can you better the accuracy of factory ammunition? Well, maybe. How good of a shot is ole Dad? Can he tell the difference between a two inch group ammunition at 50 yards and a three inch group ammunition? I can't, at some level of accuracy, it is all rock and roll for me.

Some of my data. A M27-2 is an N frame pistol. Due to the thicker cylinder, some of these loads may expand a K frame cylinder enough to cause sticky extraction. Thinner cylinder, more expansion for the same pressure. Them's the breaks.

Smith & Wesson M27-2

158 LSWC 13.5grs 2400 R-P cases CCI primers
9-Oct-05 T = 64 °F

Ave Vel =1273
Std Dev =44.03
ES =176.7
High =1372
Low =1195
Number rounds =30

158 LSWC 13.5grs 2400 R-P cases Fed 100
4-Sep-05 T = 80 °F

Ave Vel =1245
Std Dev =22.49
ES =97.26
High =1285
Low =1187
N =32

158 JHP (W/W) 13.5 grains 2400 R-P cases WSP
5-Aug-06 T = 103 °F

Ave Vel =1196
Std Dev =26.58
ES =87.17
High =1244
Low =1157
N =10

accurate not difficult to extract


158 LRN 12.0 grs AA#9 CCI500 Mixed cases

5-Aug-06 T = 104 °F

Ave Vel =1278
Std Dev =34.98
ES =117.4
High =1344
Low =1226
N =27

Accurate little or no leading

158 LRN 12.5 grs AA#9 CCI500 3-D cases
5-Aug-06 T = 104 °F

Ave Vel =1348
Std Dev =34.16
ES =134.7
High =1386
Low =1251
N =25

Very Accurate sticky extraction no leading


158 LRN 13.0 grs AA#9 CCI500 3-D cases
5-Aug-06 T = 104 °F

Ave Vel =1360
Std Dev =33.19
ES =109.8
High =1393
Low =1284
N =26

Very Accurate, sticky extraction, no leading

158 JHP 13.0 grs AA#9 R-P cases WSP
9-Oct-05 T = 64 °F

Ave Vel =1156
Std Dev =35.63
ES =160.6
High =1230
Low =1069
N =20

Very accurate

158 JHP (W/W) 14.0 grs AA#9 R-P cases WSP
9-Oct-05 T = 64 °F

Ave Vel =1208
Std Dev =27.65
ES =89
High =1255
Low =1166
N =24

Very accurate

158 LSWC Linotype 12.0 AA#9 Mixed cases CCI500
14 Oct 2008 T = 80 °F

Ave Vel =1217
Std Dev =52
ES =224.9
High =1346
Low =1121
N =29



158 LSWC Linotype 15.5 W296 Zero Cases CCI500
21 June 2008 T = 85 °F

Ave Vel =1282
Std Dev =35
ES =128.1
High =1325
Low =1197
N =12

No leading, no extraction issues, heavier recoil than AA#9 load

158 LSWC Linotype 15.5 W296 3D Cases CCI500
14 Oct 2008 T = 80 °F


Ave Vel =1260
Std Dev =34
ES =160.5
High =1315
Low =1154
N=18

 

[.38 Special]

In the OP's shoes I probably wouldn't. There is all sorts of magic that the handloader can accomplish with the cartridge, but if the old gentleman just wants to shoot the occasional deer with a jacketed bullet, he may as well just buy a box or two of "boutique" cartridges and call it done.

 

[Mstafford88]

It is almost as if you are asking Alcoholics United whether you should take a drink. The answer would of course be yes, imbibe till you fall out of your chair!

Whether reloading is economical really depends on how many rounds of 357 Magnum you plan to shoot and reload. The equipment, press, dies, shell holders, etc, are not cheap. But it seems you already have the press and equipment to load 38 Special. Your equipment is sunk cost.

While I have 357 Magnum dies, I recall they came with spacers to put under the locking nuts so they could be set up for 38 Special, but also used for 357 Magnum. I don't think the spacer is needed for the sizing die, but surely would be needed for the belling and seating die.

Cases, have the old man keep his fired cases. Or look around for once fired 357 Magnum cases.

Reloading 357 Magnum cases is not difficult, no more than 38 Special cases. You don't need to trim. I had issues with the nickel coating scraping off nickeled cases in a carbide die, that ended when I lubed those cases, and made sizing effortless. All of my charges were dumped from a Dillon powder horn. My two primary powders were H110, a ball powder, and 2400 which is a granulated powder. I have a bunch of AA#9 which is a very fine ball powder, and based on how well H110 and AA#9 threw, I cannot imagine any need for weighing. And ditto for 2400. It throws very well.

W296 is the exact same powder as H110. So the data below is valid for H110. H110 is not flexible, it is pedal to the metal or nothing. Magnum loads only. Accurate Arms 2400 is more flexible, allows some reduction. I just used Skeeter Skelton's 38 Special load of a 158 grain lead bullet with 13.5 grains 2400, but in a 357 Magnum case. That load shot great.

I did not try to duplicate factory velocities. Older 357 Magnum was exceedingly hot. Factories will always be able to mix powder lots (if they want) or order special powders, so they can achieve the highest velocity and yet meet pressures. We reloaders are loading in quantum units, though 2400 and H110 are outstanding 357 Magnum powders and gave me equivalent velocities just under max. Maximum being sticky extraction. Just looked at my chronograph data, not all factory ammunition moves as fast as my reloads. Not sure if that is a good thing or not.

Can you better the accuracy of factory ammunition? Well, maybe. How good of a shot is ole Dad? Can he tell the difference between a two inch group ammunition at 50 yards and a three inch group ammunition? I can't, at some level of accuracy, it is all rock and roll for me.

Some of my data. A M27-2 is an N frame pistol. Due to the thicker cylinder, some of these loads may expand a K frame cylinder enough to cause sticky extraction. Thinner cylinder, more expansion for the same pressure. Them's the breaks.

Smith & Wesson M27-2

158 LSWC 13.5grs 2400 R-P cases CCI primers
9-Oct-05 T = 64 °F

Ave Vel =1273
Std Dev =44.03
ES =176.7
High =1372
Low =1195
Number rounds =30

158 LSWC 13.5grs 2400 R-P cases Fed 100
4-Sep-05 T = 80 °F

Ave Vel =1245
Std Dev =22.49
ES =97.26
High =1285
Low =1187
N =32

158 JHP (W/W) 13.5 grains 2400 R-P cases WSP
5-Aug-06 T = 103 °F

Ave Vel =1196
Std Dev =26.58
ES =87.17
High =1244
Low =1157
N =10

accurate not difficult to extract


158 LRN 12.0 grs AA#9 CCI500 Mixed cases

5-Aug-06 T = 104 °F

Ave Vel =1278
Std Dev =34.98
ES =117.4
High =1344
Low =1226
N =27

Accurate little or no leading

158 LRN 12.5 grs AA#9 CCI500 3-D cases
5-Aug-06 T = 104 °F

Ave Vel =1348
Std Dev =34.16
ES =134.7
High =1386
Low =1251
N =25

Very Accurate sticky extraction no leading


158 LRN 13.0 grs AA#9 CCI500 3-D cases
5-Aug-06 T = 104 °F

Ave Vel =1360
Std Dev =33.19
ES =109.8
High =1393
Low =1284
N =26

Very Accurate, sticky extraction, no leading

158 JHP 13.0 grs AA#9 R-P cases WSP
9-Oct-05 T = 64 °F

Ave Vel =1156
Std Dev =35.63
ES =160.6
High =1230
Low =1069
N =20

Very accurate

158 JHP (W/W) 14.0 grs AA#9 R-P cases WSP
9-Oct-05 T = 64 °F

Ave Vel =1208
Std Dev =27.65
ES =89
High =1255
Low =1166
N =24

Very accurate

158 LSWC Linotype 12.0 AA#9 Mixed cases CCI500
14 Oct 2008 T = 80 °F

Ave Vel =1217
Std Dev =52
ES =224.9
High =1346
Low =1121
N =29



158 LSWC Linotype 15.5 W296 Zero Cases CCI500
21 June 2008 T = 85 °F

Ave Vel =1282
Std Dev =35
ES =128.1
High =1325
Low =1197
N =12

No leading, no extraction issues, heavier recoil than AA#9 load

158 LSWC Linotype 15.5 W296 3D Cases CCI500
14 Oct 2008 T = 80 °F


Ave Vel =1260
Std Dev =34
ES =160.5
High =1315
Low =1154
N=18

WOW! Thank you so much for all that expertise and advice sir! And that’s a really beautiful revolver btw.

Luckily I have some H110 I was planning to use and try first IF we decided to go that route. (I have phenomenal bug hole groups at 100 with my 300blk with H110. Check out my thread on it)

I haven’t set up or messed with a 357mag bullet/shell or anything in my current dies, though they have “357/38spcl” stamped on them. They are just simple Lee dies. So the assumption is that they should both be able to handle it and there appears to be room to spare in the current 38 setup. But again: I haven’t messed with it.

He does have a handful of cases but I’m not sure how many. That will help in determining how we move forward. And if he wants to spend the $ on projectiles, or just buy a dang box.

Thanks for the clarification on the trim. I never trim any other handgun load either but I’ve also never dealt with the science of magnum handgun loads and how it affects brass.

 

[Mstafford88]

In the OP's shoes I probably wouldn't. There is all sorts of magic that the handloader can accomplish with the cartridge, but if the old gentleman just wants to shoot the occasional deer with a jacketed bullet, he may as well just buy a box or two of "boutique" cartridges and call it done.

He may come find you for calling him OLD. I kid, but I definitely see your point. And am kind of leaning your way in this case. Unless he gets some crazy horrible groups from premium Hornady hunting loads…..which I don’t foresee lol

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

It is almost as if you are asking Alcoholics United whether you should take a drink

Belly up to the bar, me Laddies! Belly up and down a few!

I started my hunting life at around 10 with my Uncle’s 6-1/2” Blackhawk. Two years later I started learning to load my own. At 13 I got my own 4-5/8” Blackhawk and a Lyman’s Spartan press so I could load my own .38Spl and .357Mag.
The rest is history.

Why would you buy shelf ammo when you can make your own?

 

[.45Coltguy]

OP, what are the factory loads your dad is using? Also, does your Lee dies have the spacer that Slamfire mentioned for the .357 if you go that direction? And, if you decide to handload, what grain bullet would you use? Just a couple things to keep in mind.

 

[AJC1]

I load 357 by the pile and it absolutely is worth it. I don't use h110/296 so I can't help there... #9 or 2400 is where I get down or shooters world heavy pistol.

 

[DMW1116]

2400 powder works with regular SPP. If you already have H110, might as well get a sleeve of SPP Magnum.

The Lee dies work pretty good. They don’t have a spacer. You just turn them further out based on the die. The instructions tell how much. I load 125 grain and 158 grain XTPS but not for hunting. I’m shooting from a Blackhawk revolver. A 125 grain XTP from a rifle will nearly match a 125 grain bullet from a 300 Blackout. For deer, heavier bullets might be better.

For maximum energy with good accuracy I push the 158 grain XTPs with just under a max charge of 2400, according to Hornady data. Ballistic Studies has a section on 357 Mag for hunting purposes, complete with examination of game carcasses. H110 generally gets better velocity than 2400 at the cost of recoil and blast, but requires magnum SPP. I have none so haven’t tried other true magnum powders. 1” to 1.25” groups are regularly possible from 25 yards with my Blackhawk and a couple different loads of 2400.

 

[.38 Special]

He may come find you for calling him OLD. I kid, but I definitely see your point. And am kind of leaning your way in this case. Unless he gets some crazy horrible groups from premium Hornady hunting loads…..which I don’t foresee lol

If he sees the post, let him know that I would have bolded the "gentleman" part, myself.

 

[.45Coltguy]

I don't hunt either. But, a 180gr rnfp with about 11.5gr 2400 sure is fun. especially from a lever rifle. Nothing wrong with DMW1116's loads, just another load.

 

[DMW1116]

My most accurate loads were about a grain below max, but those are target and social work loads, in the unlikely event I use a single action for either. The need to do damage to a game animal pushes me toward the higher charge/velocity/recoil load.

 

[243winxb]

New Starline Brass is 23 cents each. Reloaded 10 to 15 time is a great money saver.

Reloading your own will produce the same accuracy, over & over. When factory ammo changes lot number, accuracy may change a lot. Even in the same brand.
Could buy a case of factory & hope its accurate.

 

[cfullgraf]

I guess the first answer to come up with is whether you like reloading or not.

I enjoy reloading. In the past, I shot IHMSA Handgun Silhouette with a 357 Magnum Contender and the loads were full power 158 grain JSP bullets. I could load them more economically than factory ammunition. But I was shooting a couple hundred rounds a week at the time.

These days, I shoot lots of 357 Magnum ammunition that is loaded to 38 Special +P specs in 357 magnum cases. Reloading allows me to do that as they generally are not available on the market. I like a bit hotter than 38 Special but I do it need to have the wrist snapping recoil on a regular basis these days. These are probably not good for hunting deer size game.

I like W296 or H110 powder for my full power loads. They are the same these days per Hodgdon's information.

Starline Brass is a good source for some brass uf you do not have any. You may want to measure or trim them to the same length for consistent crimp with full power loads,.

 

[243winxb]

is it worth all the effort

No.
But I save by casting my own bullets & reloading brass 15 times on average.

Box of 50 reloads $32.50 (New Starline brass, Hornady 158 gr jhp. ($.65 each round)
Box of 50 factory Federal ammo $37.00

Priced @ Midwayusa.

 

[NMexJim]

ALWAYS help your dad have fun. In terms of tailoring your load -mild to hot - it’s worth the effort. I love to load .357.

 

[Chief TC]

My dad is pretty stoked now that he has a red dot on his 357 mag and wants to take it deer hunting (he’s got the skills, no worries about a clean shot there)

So I already make him .38spcl for plinking which drill 8” plates at 50 yards just using a turret press and knocking out plinker rounds. But we talked a little about making some 357 mag for him to hunt with. He has a handful of store bought hornady hunting loads that seem to shoot well.

Ok now that the backstory is out of the way here’s my question and some of our conversation/ consideration went:

1: We would have to buy brass, primers and projectiles. (I usually don’t have to buy brass, I got access to everything I need except 357).

2: I would likely treat it like a rifle round. Weigh out each charge by hand, trim, chamfer, debur, etc.

My comment to him was, with the cost and time going in to it and not really knowing if it’ll shoot much better than the store bought stuff, it may not be worth it, since he won’t go thru box after box of it. And frankly, I don’t know the first thing about 357 mag loading. (Is it just as consistent with a turret press, crimp/no crimp etc etc.)

So my question I guess is: for those who load 357mag for hunting only, is it worth all the effort?

Solely for hunting, I think it is better to buy Buffalo Bore 357 ammo. Reloading for 357 is only worth it to me for frequent target shooting.

 

[ballman6711]

Since you already load 38spcl, you won't have any additional equipment cost since .357 and 38spcl use the same dies and shell holder.

You also already have primers, may have appropriate bullets, and possibly a good powder.

I load a 158gr JSP using W231 for a mild recoiling .357 target load, but I wouldn't hesitate to use it on a deer out to twenty five yards or so. I mostly use magnum primers in this load because it's what I have and I've worked up my load with them, but I've also used regular spp with no noticeable difference.

With H110 you will want magnum primers. My H110 load uses the same bullet as above, but the blast, flash, and recoil are significantly greater.

So, you already have most of what you need to load .357 except for brass.

With new brass, my cost for a box of 50 is about the same as a box of decent factory ammo. Once I take the brass out of the equation, my cost drops to about half the cost of factory. This is using 158gr Sierra JSP.

Really it comes down to how often is your father going to shoot .357 loads vs 38spcl. If he shoots it on a somewhat regular basis, it will save money. If he's only going to shoot a few rounds before hunting season, probably better off to buy good factory and save your time for something else.

What load are you using for his 38spcl? And what powders do you have? Like I said, you may already have what you need except for brass) for a decent hunting load.

chirs

 

[nick22]

I also love reloading the .357 I am with the rest of the group it seems I would buy the CCI 550's and bullets that you want to use and work up some loads. It will make it more satisfying taking an animal with reloaded ammunition. Plus if you have a can of it ready to go you are much more likely to practice more which will only help your cause come fall. I say spend the extra and jump into it. Another plus you can probably go pick up a couple boxes at the store now but who knows what next year will bring? If you have the components on the shelf you can make them whenever you get the urge and some of the components will work for loading .38 special.

 

[JDeere]

You already have some of what you need to reload. It's easy to say if only 2 boxes go that route. I never like to depend on any ammo being on the shelf to buy. Nothing better than going to the range and shooting the .357 along with the .38s. I love when one of the RO's come and ask me what I'm shooting. We have .44 special limit at the indoor range. There is also that gratification of taking game with your own loads. Either way I hope he gets his deer this season...

 

[Mstafford88]

Since you already load 38spcl, you won't have any additional equipment cost since .357 and 38spcl use the same dies and shell holder.

You also already have primers, may have appropriate bullets, and possibly a good powder.

I load a 158gr JSP using W231 for a mild recoiling .357 target load, but I wouldn't hesitate to use it on a deer out to twenty five yards or so. I mostly use magnum primers in this load because it's what I have and I've worked up my load with them, but I've also used regular spp with no noticeable difference.

With H110 you will want magnum primers. My H110 load uses the same bullet as above, but the blast, flash, and recoil are significantly greater.

So, you already have most of what you need to load .357 except for brass.

With new brass, my cost for a box of 50 is about the same as a box of decent factory ammo. Once I take the brass out of the equation, my cost drops to about half the cost of factory. This is using 158gr Sierra JSP.

Really it comes down to how often is your father going to shoot .357 loads vs 38spcl. If he shoots it on a somewhat regular basis, it will save money. If he's only going to shoot a few rounds before hunting season, probably better off to buy good factory and save your time for something else.

What load are you using for his 38spcl? And what powders do you have? Like I said, you may already have what you need except for brass) for a decent hunting load.

chirs

For the 38 I use 3.8gr(I believe) titegroup under 158gr RN. Heavier bullet seems to work better out of his gun, so would probably go that route with 357mag. Since the load data calls for the magnum primers we would just need projectiles and primers if he can track down some spare brass.

 

[Mstafford88]

OP, what are the factory loads your dad is using? Also, does your Lee dies have the spacer that Slamfire mentioned for the .357 if you go that direction? And, if you decide to handload, what grain bullet would you use? Just a couple things to keep in mind.

My dad is using the Hornady FTX line I believe. And I want to say 158gr or more. I haven’t inspected them yet since we are early in our conversation on that, while still developing a .308 load for him. I don’t have a spacer of any kind but I’m not sure it’s required. There’s alot of space for movement up or down on the dies still

 

[Mstafford88]

So from what I’m seeing: Popping them out in the turret press like the 38 should yield about the same relative accuracy as being painstakingly ridiculous with specs as I am with rifle rounds?