Is it worth trying to un-sporterize an Enfield?

[41mag]

Coupla' things.

First,I find the whole # this & Mark that of Enfield nomenclature confusing.
That said,I'm interested.

Last night I made my monthly pass through a local gun shop & found seven Enfields that could only charitably classed as sporterized.Bubbaized better described most of them.If the price is right I'd like to re-militarize one.Because I have no personal reference as to model or configuration I could only compare their condition to my Mausers & M/Ns'.The sites,both fore & aft,looked gennie.No excess holes from a botched scope mounting job.

I did notice that the magazines varied in style/shape.Different models,yes?

I realize that there are still some C&R examples that can be found.

I just like the thought of "saving" one that's all.

Talk me into it,eh?!

 

[Daniel T]

It's hard to say if it's worth it. You can still buy Enfields for reasonable prices. AIMSurplus is selling nice US Property-marked No.4MkIs for $199.95.

However, I'm going to try to save a No.1MkIII* and a No.4MkI from buddacide, so I'll let you know in a year or two.

 

[Chipperman]

Worth in financially? No way. You'd be much better off rescuing a sporterized 1903.
Worth it morally/ethically? Depends.

As stated, non-Bubbified Enfields are still plentiful and not too expensive.

With that said, however, it could be a fun project.
If I were to do it I'd concentrate on:
1. the reciever not being drilled (or at least not badly)
2. not rechambered
3. Bore in reasonable condition, and barrel not cut down
4. Original mag set up

If anything else is "more original" that's even better. Original bolt, matching mag, original sites, etc.

 

[Cosmoline]

Well I'm going to jump the fence on this one and support Bubba. I oppose hacking and slashing curios, but OTOH many of the bubb'd SMLE's, Eddystones, Krags, etc. were cut up many decades ago by folks who used them extensively for hunting and protection. They represent a back woods heritage both in the US and Canada that I think deserves some respect.

OK, now I'll hop back over to the PC side of the fence.

 

[41mag]

Cosmoline?One the one hand I understand & agree with your point.

I confess to wondering what some of the modern gun owners are thinking sometimes.

But.At least one of the rifles' stock looks like it was a cross between a broken Louisville Slugger & a pine wall stud.Then it was dragged behind a truck for a spell.

That's what I'd like to save.

 

[No4Mk1]

Lots of good comments so far. Here is my opinion on the matter. All of these assume that the price is right.

As said before, financially you will be hard pressed to spend less restoring one of these than you would spend to buy one in original condition. Thus, if it is an Enfield in nice condition you want, just buy it.

OTOH, if you want a project, then go for it!

Third option, buy it and leave it as is. Even sporterized these are great guns for a good price.

BTW, I have been looking for an already sporterized Enfield to use as a starting point for a scout project. Where did you see these and what were they priced?

 

[entropy]

As chipperman already stated, worth it financially? Probably not. Morally and ethically? You bet. You will get a warm and fuzzy kind of feeling when the Enfield is back to original configuration. I am in the process of retoring two Mosin Nagants, [1916 Sestroryetsk M91 and Finn M91 1899 Izhevsk] and it's a challenge, considering I had to find replacement stocks for both of 'em. But now I have my winter project. I also will have a M1903A3 to restore in a few years, wife's family heirloom. The important thing to remember is too keep it as authentic as possible, it's very easy to start thinking about rebluing as long as it's apart....

 

[DMK]

I bought two bubba'd Enfields to rescue and I'm stalled on both projects. Getting the small parts can be a pain. The brits made a number of variations of various bits and pieces that can be hard to follow, much less find on the market at fairly affordable prices. Patients is certainly a saintly virtue when doing this.

What I would recomend is buying one of the cheap ($79-$130) Indian/Pakastani Enfields that are available now and using it as either a parts donor if your present barrelled action is in better shape, or use it as a pattern to follow and figure out what parts you need and how they go.

Another option that I'm seriously considering with one of mine that has a really worn crown/muzzle is doing a pseudo Jungle Carbine conversion.

 

[entropy]

Instead of doing that, DMK, why not consider counterboring it? It would retain it's original length, while restoring accuracy. I don't know about the authenticity of British arsenals counterboring Enfields (I do know it was done to Mosins quite a bit), but it would certainly be more authentic than a 'pseudo-Jungle Carbine', especially in light of all the InterOrd (and others) faked Jungle Carbines out on the market currently. And you would avoid the irony of bubbaizing while attempting to restore said 'bubbaized' Enfield.

 

[patentmike]

Since I like 30.06 and peep sights, I've been looking for a 1917 Enfield project. Looks like it's probably not going to be any cheaper than just buying a good one, since sporterizing usually includes things you can't undo, like grinding and drilling. I guess you have to be luck enough to find a deal on a 1/2 sporterized receiver, or maybe settle for 1/2 remilitarizing one.

 

[Desert Dog]

I have my father's "sporterized" Enfield and I wouldn't even consider restoring it back to it's original condition. The fore stock has been cut back and all of the upper wooden pieces and the nosecap are long gone. He "sporterized" this weapon in the late '50's and did a very decent job. The wood almost looks like Mesquite (light wood with dark sections) and he put a thick clear lacquer finish on it.

It is my heritage. I shot and shot at, deer with this rifle. Dad only bought Winchester 180 gr. Power Points for it (I have a few boxes of those in my ammo stash) and that is all he would shoot. The bore on this 1942 BSA is remarkable. I spent several hours getting the copper fouling out of it, and when I am done I have a very bright and sharp edged groove bore. This gun is eerie accurate up to about 200 yards as long as you don't shoot but 2 or 3 times (Once is usually all I get hunting and it's best accuracy is the first shot anyway) It still has the artillery sites on it but gets left at the 200 yd. mark.

Now for some of the ones I have seen at gun shops, there are some definite keepers once they are restored. I have found quite a few for less than $125 That have very nice bores and good headspacing. You can buy a complete wood set, brand new, for about $175 including shipping from Australia. The only problem with that is that you will not have a "all numbers" gun (gun where all major parts of the Enfield all have the same serial #) so it might not be worth as much as one. I fully expect the Enfield market to dry completely up at some point in the very near future. They should only gain value at this point if that is what you are after.

Any kind of Longbranch Enfield should command a good price at some point. IMHO, they are by far the best made of the Enfields.

If you are serious about this, learn how to ID the guns and find the one you want. Get the new wood and fit it to the gun. Find the parts that are missing like the nosecap, and make it whole again. I personally think it is worth it, but I am just a fool for Enfields...

 

[MrMurphy]

Quickie guide to Lee-Enfields (big difference from U.S Enfields)


"Square" looking magazine, with a leaf rear sight and "snubnose" barrel cap. Indian/Pakistani post-WWII model in .308. Some are still in service as cop guns over there.


"Slanted" magazine, leaf rear sight: The SMLE (Short Magazine Lee-Enfield) .303, also called the No.1 MkIII, of WW1 fame, these were also made in Canada and Australia for use in WW2.

"Slanted" magazine with aperature rear sight, and the barrel protrudes past the front sight: No.4 Mk1, the "Newer and better" model introduced in the late 1930s for the British Army and used during WW2 and the Korean War. This is what I have.

Both the No.1 MKIII and No.4 Mk1 or Mk2 have "star" (little asterisk after the number) models which are wartime "simplified" models, like on the No.4 Mk1*, it had a two position flip rear sight that had the close in battle sight setting and I think 400 yard setting.

 

[rbernie]

like on the No.4 Mk1*, it had a two position flip rear sight that had the close in battle sight setting and I think 400 yard setting.

The Mk4No1* also deleted the bolt stop plunger thingee in favor of a cutout in the right bolt raceway to allow the bolthead to be rotated and the bolt removed.

I seem to recall reading somewhere that the Mk4No1* models were all either Savage (US) or Long Branch (CA) manufacture. Dunno if that;s really true.

 

[41mag]

I stopped by the store tonight.I had kinda forgotten to check the prices before.

Anyways,I think that there's a #1MKIII coming home friday night.

BTW,

BTW, I have been looking for an already sporterized Enfield to use as a starting point for a scout project. Where did you see these and what were they priced?

#4MK1?You've a PM.

 

[rbernie]

#4MK1?You've a PM.

OOOOOH! OOOOOOH! Me too!!!

 

[No4Mk1]

I seem to recall reading somewhere that the Mk4No1* models were all either Savage (US) or Long Branch (CA) manufacture. Dunno if that;s really true.

That's my recollection too, although I can't find my book to confirm it at the moment. I do know that the two No4Mk1*'s that I have are a Savage and a LB. Also, I think the 2-position expedient rear-sight was a Savage-only thing. (Again, without my books I'm not sure....)

41mag, thanks for the PM!!

rbernie, PM forwarded....

 

[Thumper]

BTW, I have been looking for an already sporterized Enfield to use as a starting point for a scout project. Where did you see these and what were they priced?

Lee, does this mean your Savage Scout is coming up for sale? Trade you a bayonet and a glock mag for it.

 

[No4Mk1]

You gotta actually pay for the bayonet before you can offer it in trade....:banghead:



And, no, the Savage will always have a special place in my heart....

Besides, after paying for my new CMP upper I won't be buying any new toys until after Christmas at the earliest....

 

[DF357]

"Instead of doing that, DMK, why not consider counterboring it? It would retain it's original length, while restoring accuracy. I don't know about the authenticity of British arsenals counterboring Enfields......"

I have a Nr 4 Mk1/2 that is counterbored. It has CIA import marks on it. I don't know if it was bored before or after import but I'd suspect before.

It shoots minute of clay pigeon at 100yds all day. Or should I say, I shoot it at that accuracy, it's capable of more, I'm sure.