Is Paris Burning -- SHTF yet?

[Mongo the Mutterer]

The muslims in france are behaving a lot like urban welfare recipients in the US do. I wonder if there is any connection here waiting to be formed.

Nope, I think we took care of that in '68 (see Stevie-Ray, above). In STL we didn't have any issues in '68. Seems like our history (see East St. Louis -- 1917, see Fairground Park Riot IIRC 1958) dissuaded the ne'er do wells.

 

[spartacus2002]

I just love all the peace-and-Kumbaya spread about our illegal Mexican residents. There are enough here in America to have a critical mass of activists that would spark a significant portion to intifada if they had a good reason.

Perhaps the grandkids of our 20 million nation-within-a-nation Mexicans will assimilate, but a LARGE portion of those illegally here care nothing more about America than (a) what $$ they can earn and (b) maintaining their culture in the face of ours and refusing to assimilate.

I'm all for America being the land of opportunity for the tired, the poor, and the huddled masses, but their goal should be to become Americans, not illegal guest workers.

 

[DirksterG30]

I just love all the peace-and-Kumbaya spread about our illegal Mexican residents. There are enough here in America to have a critical mass of activists that would spark a significant portion to intifada if they had a good reason.

Perhaps the grandkids of our 20 million nation-within-a-nation Mexicans will assimilate, but a LARGE portion of those illegally here care nothing more about America than (a) what $$ they can earn and (b) maintaining their culture in the face of ours and refusing to assimilate.

I'm all for America being the land of opportunity for the tired, the poor, and the huddled masses, but their goal should be to become Americans, not illegal guest workers.

Well said!

 

[longeyes]

Those Mexicans living off of American welfare would throw a fit.

But things would calm down eventually. The low-life freeloaders would stop crossing the border. The motivated, self-starter types would continue to immigrate and make themselves useful.

Immigration would then become a true benefit for America as well the immigrants. Everyone wins, except the freeloaders already here.

Let's do it!

I agree. I think cutting back social services and give-aways would make clear what the real dimension of our own problem is. And that's useful.

Actually, a "Mexifada" would probably do wonders for reinforcing our RKBA and the proper role of militias.

 

[Art Eatman]

longeyes, you'd have the usual problem with a "Mexifada": "Some". Some illegals from Mexico. Some US citizens of Mexican origin. "Most", however, would have no involvement whatsoever except as victims. And that's the misery of any failed government policy.

Art

 

[Stand_Watie]

Regarding Mexican illegals - I don't think we'll ever see this type of behavior from them -unless either Mexican culture or our culture changes dramatically first.

My biggest beef with "Mexican" culture isn't Mexican culture, it's the culture of the children of many Mexicans who have lived in our barrio's long enough to adopt American urban/ghetto culture. I'm not at all worried about large numbers of Mexican immigrating here to work and (preferably) stay and become Americans. I'm very worried about the lack of control at the border that creates a free-for-all atmosphere for other-than-Mexicans to come across, and I'm very worried about our illegals winding up in a black market economy that pushes them towards further urban ghettoization.

We need an iron fist/velvet glove approach to the problem. Seal the border and deport like crazy on the one hand while dramatically streamlining the process and increasing quotas for Mexicans who want to come here to work, and especially to raise their families and become Americans.

 

[Stand_Watie]

... I know I may be one of the few here who thinks this, but I welcome them here. I only wish that their culture put a higher value on education. I'm not saying this from a theoretical perspective. I'm just a few hours north of the border in a town where whites are a minority. I actually do support a guest worker program, so they could be documented, pay taxes, and be a part of the system.

You're not in as great a minority as you think - even among generally conservative good-ol-boy folks (in Texas anyway). The dairy farmer across the road from has a 3 working man outfit, him, his son and his hired man who goes home to his family in Mexico every winter. He'd be living here with his family if our immigration law was a little more pragmatic. The dairy farmer told me in no uncertain terms that it's nearly impossible to find an American with his skills as a long term worker anymore. If they have his skill set they're either working their own farm or forman at a big corporate farm.

 

[Cosmoline]

The muslims in france are behaving a lot like urban welfare recipients in the US do. I wonder if there is any connection here waiting to be formed.

I think not. The social welfare system in France is orders of magnitude more extensive than it is in the US. We spend almost nothing on welfare in this country compared with Europe. The urban welfare state in the US is for the most part a myth cooked up by the GOP to use urban/suburban divisions to leverage their guys into office. Only weak minds buy into it.

 

[Atticus]

Anyone think this uprising might have been inspired more by events in New Orleans than by radical Islamic beliefs?

 

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

You're not in as great a minority as you think - even among generally conservative good-ol-boy folks (in Texas anyway). The dairy farmer across the road from has a 3 working man outfit, him, his son and his hired man who goes home to his family in Mexico every winter. He'd be living here with his family if our immigration law was a little more pragmatic. The dairy farmer told me in no uncertain terms that it's nearly impossible to find an American with his skills as a long term worker anymore. If they have his skill set they're either working their own farm or forman at a big corporate farm.

This is absolutely true. Immigration alone isn't the problem. It doesn't matter whether the immigrants are Mexican or Algerian. Immigrants who have a future (i.e. those who can support themselves) don't throw riots.

The problem is when you try to combine immigration with the welfare state. That's when you have trouble. The French have learned this lesson the hard way.

Let's not repeat their mistakes here in the US.

 

[longeyes]

It's about more than the welfare state, it's about assimilation. And the viability of the American economy.

 

[Dr.Rob]

It's shocking more people haven't been killed... I heard on the news yesterday most of the rioters up to this point had been detained but not arrested... meaning 'released on their own recognisance?'

Arrests and curfews are supposed to start tonight... but hey YOU never violated curfew did you?

I'm not suggesting we send troops to thier aid... I am suggesting we offer up some kind of support to our historical allies and learn from their mistakes.

 

[longeyes]

What good is a curfew you don't, can't, won't enforce? This is a problem of values and will. France is being tested.

 

[captain obvious]

The answer is more socialism, Islamically-flavored. Tax the Gauls more and give to the Algerians. Everybody happy. What's the problem?

Uhh, can you say late Roman Empire? Tribute to the barbarians didn't help things then, why would they now?

 

[spartacus2002]

Uhh, can you say late Roman Empire? Tribute to the barbarians didn't help things then, why would they now?

Those who forget the past are condemned to repeat it.

 

[Henry Bowman]

I'm not suggesting we send troops to thier aid... I am suggesting we offer up some kind of support to our historical allies and learn from their mistakes.

But should we wait until next week after they've surrendered?

 

[Mongo the Mutterer]

President Jacques Chirac declared a state of emergency Tuesday, paving the way for curfews to be imposed on riot-hit cities and towns in an extraordinary measure to halt France's worst civil unrest in decades after 12 nights of violence.

Full report here from the ASSociated press.

After 12 DAYS of rioting with THOUSANDS of vehicles burned in over 300 cities, le Prez decides to declare a state of emergency... Mon Dieu!

 

[Creeping Incrementalism]

The urban welfare state in the US is for the most part a myth cooked up by the GOP to use urban/suburban divisions to leverage their guys into office. Only weak minds buy into it.

You're joking, right?

 

[Sinsaba]

... The urban welfare state in the US is for the most part a myth cooked up by the GOP to use urban/suburban divisions to leverage their guys into office. Only weak minds buy into it.

You're joking, right?

Of course he's kidding!!

 

[Sinsaba]

Imagine if you will that somehow the people in government get the guts to close our borders, deport all illegals, and then streamline the process for them to come in as legal immigrants.

I STILL see problems

1) I know some people here in VA that hire illegals... they tell me that the price is going up, that they won't touch jobs for the same price they used to. Once they are legal, the price will go up even more they don't have anything left to fear. And they will need to be paid more for the same net that they get now (taxes you know). This will increase the cost to the employer. The employer will have to pay his share of taxes that he doesn't have to pay now. Is there any real doubt that any big advantage of using immigrant labor will evaporate?

2) I don't see any sign of the masses becomming Americian, becomming part of our culture. This would/will/is another explosion waiting to happen. Can anybody explain where this impression of mine is wrong?

3) Stop for a moment and think. The illegals are here earning money. What are they doing with it? Spending it on businesses, homes, cars, luxuries? Everything I hear says that most of the money is going back home. We have money going out of this country with this country gaining nothing in return! I'm not smart enough to know exactally what impact this will have on the economy but It simply cannot be good. Maybe it is so small of an ammount that it will have no appreciable effect. What about when we have twice the number? Three times?

You can't say that this happens with international trade now. Note the word "TRADE". Money goes out of the country. Something comes in. That something gets used or sold thereby generating more money in the US. Maybe my view of money is simplistic. Correct me if I am wrong in substance.

Last but not least...

If we implement a program of closing the borders and shipping back the illegals... might we not see here something like what is going on in France? Is it possible that some in the administration believe this is the case and THAT is why we see this inexplicable reluctance to enforce the laws?

 

[CAnnoneer]

That "expert" is Prince Charles, the future KING of England!

What a capital clown that guys is! Why is it that anybody pays attention to him at all? And no, he will never wear the crown. It will pass directly from his mother to his sons.

 

[CAnnoneer]

I think not. The social welfare system in France is orders of magnitude more extensive than it is in the US. We spend almost nothing on welfare in this country compared with Europe. The urban welfare state in the US is for the most part a myth cooked up by the GOP to use urban/suburban divisions to leverage their guys into office. Only weak minds buy into it.

If that is the case and indeed the welfare state is negligible, let's dismantle it tomorrow under the legitimate argument that it does not make any real difference anyway. Less gov expense would (hopefully!) mean less taxes, and more toys for me.

 

[confed sailor]

A wiff of grapeshot, and a touch of the cold steel. The coming days ought to be interesting; perhaps we should take notes, though probably not for what we should do, but more of what we shouldn't do.

"HOW TO BURN THE COUNTRY DOWN IN A MONTH: a primer in urban renewal"

Brought to you by who else, FRANCE.

act now and get "PARIS IS BURNING, BUT IM NOT FIDDLING" by Jacky boy


seriously, this is only going to foster Le Pen, and honestly he worries me.

 

[GunGoBoom]

Uhh, can you say late Roman Empire? Tribute to the barbarians didn't help things then, why would they now?

Hmm, this is making me want to knock 5 years of dust off Age of Empires & Age of Kings CD cases & play. [/hijack]

Stand Watie, I think you're right about the iron fist/velvet glove approach. And my great great grandmother and father (my maternal grandmother's grandparents) lived next door to the real Stand Watie in the Vinita, Okla area, and they were with him when the great Cherokee General died (or so the family story goes...).

 

[Stand_Watie]

\..Stand Watie, I think you're right about the iron fist/velvet glove approach. And my great great grandmother and father (my maternal grandmother's grandparents) lived next door to the real Stand Watie in the Vinita, Okla area, and they were with him when the great Cherokee General died (or so the family story goes...).

I took my username as a tip of the hat to my wife's grandad, who was a genuine oklahoma cowboy/Indian and like Stand Watie a confederate to the bone. I'd be curious to see a follow up bio on Stand Watie's decendants to see how they're doing. Texas's most famous Indian's (Quanah Parker) decendents pretty much run things in their neck of the woods - judges, state legislators etc. Contrary to Hollywood mythmaking, not all American Indians turned into degenerate alcoholics with the advent of euro society - some adapted very well.