Is S&W in the crapper?

[Highland Ranger]

This thread is indicative of what I believe to be the standard customer service experience with Smith:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=109981

 

[VG]

Wildalaska, the last comment's a joke.......right?

Or is it because your a dealer? The service I've received from them is nonexistant. Numerous attempts to contact Kate Fredette in service resulted in zero contact, and she didn't bother answering any of my several voice mail messages. Comments by other service dept people that my gun was junk, with the attitude that I shouldn't bother them by sending it in.

Is S&W in the crapper? Absofreekinlutely!

It will be cold day in Hell before S&W sees another dollar of my money.
Je

What is the gun in question? Care to explain the details of what you bought, and what the problem is? In today's litigious climate, I'd be astonished to hear of any firearm manufacturer would say anything bad about their own product.

 

[J Miller]

VG,

The gun in question is a 25-5 I bought new in 82. It's served me well, but has now worn to the point it needs serviced. Nothing new or different there. We read about S&Ws going back for overhauls all the time. But for some reason, I just can't get connected up with the right person at S&W to take care of this. I posted about this here at THR a year or so ago in this thread:
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=14754&page=1&pp=25.
Be advised, if you choose to read the entire thread, it ended on a very sour note and was closed by Tamara.

Several people who did try and help in that thread suggested I call Kate Fredette at S&W. I have made several attempts to do so. With ZERO results.
Hense my comments earlier in this thread.
My comments about Wildalaska was not an insult or a flame, but a question. Was he joking, or was his good repor with them because he's a dealer?

Joe

 

[VG]

Post to http://www.smith-wessonforum.com
They seem to be a lot more in touch with what is going on at S&W and how to deal with them. Be advised it is an extremely polite forum.

 

[J Miller]

VG,

I am a memeber of the S&W forum and very rarely post there. I suspect from what I've read there, that if I posted this the attacks I would suffer would make those in the thread I directed you to just a minor anoyance.


Joe

 

[Majic]

Actually there are quite a few folks over at the S&W forum who will quickly tell you they have no use for anything that S&W is putting on the market these days.
There is a pretty lively debate going on now with Mr. Clint Smith himself over the M21-TR and what he said in the magazine article.

 

[SteelEye]

Not my experience

I have a 625-8 45 ACP/AR with about 5000 rounds thru it. Many of these rounds were Rowland loadings, some surpassing 44 mag loads. I have yet to have a single problem with this gun. I recently purchased a 686 2" and have been stunned at its accuracy. Shoots beyond my holding capabilites at 25 yards.

My last purchase was a Freedom Arms model 83 in 44 mag. The only reason I didn't get a 629 was the need for 200 yard accuracy which the FA has to spare and no other 44 mag can approach.

Would not hesitate to buy another Smith & Wesson!

 

[Ruger Redhawk]

Sorry guys I'll stick with my Ruger's.I have my fair share of Smith's still. These are older guns before the sellout to Clinton.Most are from the 70's and early 80's.Years ago I dealt with S&W's customer service and I was satisfied with the results.Ruger on the other hand to me has the best customer service going.One time I did have to return a Redhawk twice.I contacted Mr. Dick Bealieu and the problem was resolved.My Redhawk would shoot way left with the rear sight all the way to the right.They claimed the made adjustments what ever that means.On the second return they practically rebuilt the gun. New Barrel,cylinder ,crane and Misc internal parts. The gun shoots great now. I had this gun for over ten years. Ruger did all this work at no charge.If I see a Smith that catches my eye I might consider it since they have American owners again. It just left a bad taste in my mouth. I've been a Ruger fan for over 30 years and see no reason to go back to Smith's.

Ruger Redhawk

 

[russlate]

Doesn't matter if they are or aren't. I'm with Sean 85746 - I won't buy a post- treason ( agreement ) gun.

I may buy an unpinned and unrecessed gun used not knowing if it's post agreement, but since I buy Carbon Steel blued or nickeled ( unless some very good deal on stainless comes up ) up to now I've never had a " Soulless Steel " gun. That's Mike Irwin's phrase I borrowed, incidentally.

Integral locks are an abomination to me.

 

[Guns_and_Labs]

I've had and still have several S&W's, both 80's vintage through the latest .500, and I've found their initial QC to be quite adequate. Not pharmaceutical grade, but still pretty good. And better than the apparent QC at some rising competitors (take an Taurus apart and check out the internal metal).

I've also dealt with the repair and refurbishing service, usually for correcting blatant user abuse, and they've been uniformly polite, prompt and comprehensive. No complaints from me.

 

[Brass Balls]

Smith & Wesson is making some great, high quality guns, especially their Performance Center. Here's a couple examples:

S&W Performance Center PC1911

S&W Performance Center 629 Stealth Hunter

 

[vito]

To FPrice: what do you mean by "spitting lead"? I bought a 640 about a year ago, in part because I wanted a carry gun that I could consider 100% reliable. I probably have fired no more than 200 to 300 rounds through this gun, with no apparent problems other than the unpleasant recoil even with 38 special ammo. This is only my second S&W revolver, but it feels and looks extremely well made, and operates much, much smoother than the Taurus and Ruger revolvers that I have owned in the past.

 

[Bullet Bob]

Gee I'm so glad Ruger is a real gun company, instead of a sellout like S&W. Think I'll call them up and order some 20 round mags for my mini-14. 10 rounders? Hmmm.

 

[FPrice]

vito...

"To FPrice: what do you mean by "spitting lead"?"

The cylinders and the forcing cone wered not lined up properly so each time I shot a round, the forcing cone would shave some material off the bullet and eject it out the side. It was not enough to bind up the revolver but you definitely could feel it. THAT is serious enough to warrant factory work. This is the only gun I have had which had this problem and it was finally fixed.

I do not find the recoil to be particularly bad with .38Spl ammo, but you are aware that your are firing a gun.

 

[SnWnMe]

Gee I'm so glad Ruger is a real gun company, instead of a sellout like S&W. Think I'll call them up and order some 20 round mags for my mini-14. 10 rounders? Hmmm

Don't forget to buy the folding stock too

Oh the quotable Bill Ruger heehee


"No honest man needs more than 10 rounds in any gun."
"I never meant for simple civilians to have my 20 or 30 round magazines or my folding stock."
"I see nothing wrong with waiting periods."

WBR Sr.

 

[Cortland]

In the last couple of years I've purchased (new) a 610, 617, and CS45. They've all been great -- no complaints w/r/t to QC. I also own a few Rugers. From a political perspective, I feel much more comfortable buying S&Ws now than I do buying Rugers.

 

[bobby68]

I just bought two earlier this year. I am new to firearms but i like my Ladysmith 65 (for my wife) and the 686 i bought for myself. The only thing i might have done different was looked for an equivalent in blue.

 

[Big Bad Wolf]

In the last 4 years I have purchased 5 new S&W products and 2 older revo's.

Of the 5 new I have purchased (629, 340PD, 686+. 386PD, 4040PD) I had a problem with the 629 with binding, I called S&W and they sent me a return shipping label on their dime to send it back for warranty repair. The pistol was returned in 10 days and did not cost me a dime, I have not had a problem since. The 340PD had a recall, called S&W gave them the serial number to verify and they sent me a shipping label to return on their dime and it was returned within a week, no problems with it. In both instances their customer service was an absolute delight to deal with.

When compared to the older revo's it is true that S&W does not put the same attention to detail in the new stuff they release, but who does anymore? Sure pre-1975 they were crafted with the attention to detail you would find in a custom manufacturer but here in the new century this cannot be done without a huge price increase. Almost every gun company has had to cut corners but S&W products work and work well I might add. I have no complaints with S&W and will be proud to purchase from them at any time.

The main gripes I see are the MIM and locks, well I was not a fan of the MIM either but after owning and shooting the heck out of guns with these parts I have had no problems with them, to me it's a non-issue now. The locks on the other hand I don't care for but there may be some who use this feature. At least the lock is turned off and on with a handcuff key rather than a special key that only the factory has should it be lost so you are not out of luck. These locks do not turn me off from buying S&W revo's and it's not like they stick out or in plain sight or anything. It is not something that would turn me off from buying.

 

[Doug S]

I recently bought a S&W 642 after owning a number of Taurus revolvers. I can't say that the Smith is any better quality wise. I do like it, & think it's a great pocket gun, but it does have a few issues. Primarily it has a noticable horizontal groove about 1cm in length about a 1/4in past where the barrel enters the frame. Although I've posted about this on the S&W forum & a couple of others, I've not been able to get anyone to tell me if this flaw is common or worthy of return to the factory. I've talked to S&W & there reps have been very polite. One individual told me that this was probably normal, & another said that they couldn't honestly say without my returning the revolver. Both times they were very friendly so no complaints there. If this is common in S&W barrels I'd have to say that the quality control could be better, but if the revolver continues to function well, I will overlook a couple of minor issues. I do like the 642 better than my Taurus guns & will probably buy another. Just was a little surprised at the apparent lack of QC.

 

[Wildalaska]

I recently bought a S&W 642 after owning a number of Taurus revolvers. I can't say that the Smith is any better quality wise. I do like it, & think it's a great pocket gun, but it does have a few issues.

If it had a few issues, especially cosmetic, visible ones, why did you buy it?

Let me tell, you a secret about the guns business.: The dealer actually gets to INSPECT AND GO OVER the firearm before he sells it to you. We do that all the time, You pick it up, inspect the finish, make sure that everyhting moves the way its supposed to...

Now guess what, if I see a blatant flaw...BACK IT GOES.....

Now of ourse, some flaws occur in gunshops too.....and then get blamed on the manufacturer


WildtestthatsafetyAlaska

 

[Doug S]

If it had a few issues, especially cosmetic, visible ones, why did you buy it?

Wildalaska,

When I used the word "cosmetic" I was referring to the groove in the barrel. Since it doesn't seem to have any effect on performance, I think of it as more of a cosmetic issue than a functional one. I didn't look in the barrel with a bore light while at the shop, so that is why I didn't notice it before purchasing. The other issue which is not cosmetic is that my cylinder (when open) turns freely as it did at the shop, but when I got it to the range and loaded it I noticed that the cases of the loaded rounds drag on the frame (actually on the raised ear that extends down below the recoil shield) of the gun requiring a little force to turn the cylinder past the loaded round. Again, doesn't seem to impede function as the cylinder is still quite easy to load, but this isn't something I would have noticed in the shop without having loaded the gun. The S&W person that I spoke to on the phone stated that I could send it back for adjustment as this was not normal, but I'm not particularly worried about it. The third & last issue is that the primer indents seem to be a little more off center than my other revolvers. The S&W rep said this was normal, so again I will believe him as I didn't have any misfires during range time.

Now I have a question for you, have you noticed grooves in the barrel of S&W revolvers like the one I've described in this post? If so, do you view it as a cosmetic blemish, or would you have sent the revolver back?

 

[Wildalaska]

If there are any more "grooves" inside a barrel that the ones that spiral around...

Back it goes...

And if the cylinder is dragging...

Back it should go..

PS..I have this nasty habit of looking donw the bore of everything that goes out for sale....

WildgimmemyborelightAlaska

 

[Doug S]

PS..I have this nasty habit of looking donw the bore of everything that goes out for sale....

I plan on developing this habit myself the very next time I purchase a firearm. Sometimes we learn the hard way. I may just send it back. The problem is that the little gun is so handy, I hate to part with it. Thanks for the response.