Is the 338 Federal ever going to have a heyday?

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Doc7

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This cartridge has been out for years now. It seems to me like it really fulfills an optimal niche of recoil and performance for non-magnum shooters seeking a powerful cartridge with a good trajectory and an efficient (308) case.


Savage has been chambering their “Bear Hunter” rifles in this cartridge and now the MSR-10 AR-10 platform rifle is also chambered in it. However even Montana RC which typically offers rifles in a huge number of cartridges isn’t offering their new X3 in it, and Winchester has not chambered it in any of the Model 70s.

I find the cartridge really interesting, as a recoil sensitive shooter who is building a rifle battery and I think it would be fun to build it out of all 308 rifles: a 243 in Model 70 Featherweight Compact, a 7mm-08 Tikka T3 Lite SS, and a 308 and 338 federal in as-yet-undetermined rifles. I’ll probably build the 308 in some sort of “long-range/tactical” configuration as a fun project as I think I would be covered on all my hunting needs with a 22, 243, 7-08 and 338 Fed.
 
Nope, they missed the boat. Seams most people now are interested in small calibers with heavy for caliber high ballistic coefficient bullets like the 6.5cm and 7-08. 338 federal might have been more successful if it was launched 40 years ago but its never going to get a foothold now. Also light recoiling it is not. Its going to be up there with 30-06 and 7mm mag for recoil.
 
There’s not a wide enough market appeal for a 200+ grain short action cartridge for it to ever be hugely popular. There aren’t enough bear hunters in the world to push it into the limelight, and not enough guys who really want a harder hitting short-mid range AR-10 for their PDW. There aren’t many specialty pistol shooters out there - who appreciate the extra bullet weight for whitetail deer hunting. There aren’t enough hog hunters who think a 200grn+ bullet is necessary...

In its niche, it’s enjoying as much popularity as it should, which is more than most other cartridges. It won’t ever displace the 338wm or 375 H&H as a recommended grizzly rifle, since the desire there is a quick stop, and most eastern Bruin hunters have been satisfied by cartridges running less bullet weight for a long time already. But among any of these groups, it does have a following.

So it never had a chance of becoming the next 5.56/223, or even as popular as 6.5 Creed. But for what it is and does, it’s a pretty small group of cartridges, and it’s doing well among them.
 
It shoots the same bullet weights as 30-06 to the same speed, or slightly slower, with roughly the same recoil. But those same bullet weights in 30 caliber out penetrate it at all ranges and retain velocity and energy much better at longer ranges.

The 308 shoots the same bullet weights 50-100 fps slower, or one bullet weight lighter than 338 to the same, or slightly faster, speed with considerably less recoil. At close ranges no animal will ever notice the difference between a 180 gr from a 308 and a 200 gr from a 338. Or a 200 gr from a 308 compared to a 225 from a 338. But as range increases the 308 and 30-06 both significantly out perform 338 Fed.

Any time you are shooting the same, or similar bullet weights with similar powder charges the larger diameter bullet will achieve more speed at the muzzle. Many people who only look at MV are impressed, and the 338 Fed looks impressive at the muzzle. But similar bullet weights in larger calibers are short stubby bullets with poor SD's and BC's that don't penetrate as well as the same weights in smaller calibers. They also slow down much faster after they leave the muzzle.

I can't think of a single situation where a 338 Fed would out perform a 308, and a 30-06 would out perform it by a wide margin. People sometimes forget, or never knew, that 180-200 gr bullets work just fine in a 308. On big animals a stoutly constructed 6.5mm bullet in the 140 gr weight class has a better sectional density and would penetrate deeper than a 225 gr 338 bullet if they impacted at similar speeds.

The difference in a 33 caliber entrance hole and a 30 caliber entrance hole on game is insignificant.
 
I remember when the 338 Federal was introduced... I think Federal knew it was an "also-ran," being one of the last viable diameters to neck a 308 Win case. If you're finishing out the collection, I think we're still waiting on the 224-08 Valhalla that is supersonic to 2,500 yards with its' 157gr .224" diameter bullet. It does need a 1:1 twist in 36" barrel to stabilize though. Then, there's the all new 25-08 Tactical Quarterbore (TQB). Available in both precision and AR-10 pattern rifles, it absolutely fills the gaping hole between the 243 Winchester and the 260 Remington. Finally, there is the "legacy meets today" 277-O'Connor-eight. Perfect for receiving sideways looks from guides on a western antelope hunt, the 277-OC8 is best choice for those looking for that perfect cartridge in .277" diameter based on a short action, but without the punishing recoil of a short magnum......

You guys get the idea. Unless it's comparing the extremes, many of the "adjacent" cartridges in the 308 family do nearly the same thing. I laughed at the time 338 Fed was introduced because gun writers were trying to write positive promotional reviews. These people are paid to persuade others that they need this new caliber. What do they even say to convince someone of potential benefits over the 180gr 308Win? Bigger hole and short range energy it is. Favorable recoil comparisons to cartridges in a different zip code. The plus side is, if there is ever a 338 Fed brass shortage, you're a sizing die away from forming as much as you need from the most popular rifle caliber ever. Needless to say, when the gun writers are having a hard time coming up with anything as to why a person should buy 338 Fed vs a 308 Win, it is a little hilarious.

Anyway, I hope this is taken in the good-natured way that it was intended. Otherwise, flame away - haha.
 
cougar1717 said:
Then, there's the all new 25-08 Tactical Quarterbore (TQB). Available in both precision and AR-10 pattern rifles, it absolutely fills the gaping hole between the 243 Winchester and the 260 Remington.
Click to expand...

I thought that was called the 25 Souper. Fills the minuscule space betwixt the 250 Savage and 257 Bob. (Have the 257 Bob. Still looking for a Savage 99 in 250 Savage.) I'm still waiting on the 298-08 so I can use up all of the Carcano bullets I have laying around. :D

As for the 338 federal, I've always thought it would be a fun cartridge in an AR-10. Why? I don't know. Why not? :D (Or 358 Winchester). Someone on the board here has an AR-10 in either 257 Roberts or 6mm Remington. So, again, why not? But I think it will always be relegated to life as a niche cartridge.

Matt
 
This thread and the 338/06 vs 35 Whelen thread got me thinking. I’d rather have a 338/06 than a 35 Whelen because the 338 is going to have longer legs. I’d rather have a 358 Winchester than the 338 federal though because it would be such a nice 200 yard thumper. Sometimes our preferences don’t need to make sense.
 
someguy2800 said:
This thread and the 338/06 vs 35 Whelen thread got me thinking. I’d rather have a 338/06 than a 35 Whelen because the 338 is going to have longer legs. I’d rather have a 358 Winchester than the 338 federal though because it would be such a nice 200 yard thumper. Sometimes our preferences don’t need to make sense.
Click to expand...
I love your thinking...
 
Doc7 said:
..... as a fun project as I think I would be covered on all my hunting needs with a 22, 243, 7-08 and 338 Fed.
Click to expand...

Doc, at one time I thought about that idea of having all the .308 based calibers. You left off the 260 Rem and the 358 Win. So you'd have a 6mm, 6.5mm, 7mm, 7.62mm, 8mm & 9mm. Round it out with the 5.5ish mm of your choice.

I'm getting older and am thinning out now. I figure, unless I go on some safari requiring something very specific, my 5.56, .308 and .458S will be all I need until I'm committed to the home.
 
I doubt it. Bigger than it needs to be for most animals, too light for me to be eager to use it as a stopping rifle for anything dangerous. It falls afoul of the caliber gap - that nothing between 7mm (or maybe .30 if you want to stretch) and .375 offers any benefit. You'd almost always rather have a 7 magnum or a .375 H&H.
 
It's another of the dozens upon dozens of "great cartridges that for reasons beyond this writers' comprehension never caught on." Someone's gotta keep the ad men, PR team and gun magazine editors employed :).

Every one that faded or flat-out flopped has had it's champions; the Lazzeroni's were high-powered long-range killers...but they were too proprietary and cost an arm and a leg to own and feed; the SAUM's and WSM's had a short-powder column for accuracy and efficiency...yet they all pretty much died on the vine (except for the .300 WSM which is hanging on) because they really didn't offer anything more than established rounds did; every one of the .358 bores has gun writers and hunters constantly singing their praises...yet all that were released post-.35 Rem have staggered about a bit and then ultimately faded to pretty much cult-status, etc.

Even the old standbys such as the .250 Savage, .257 Roberts, .300 H&H, the .222 Rem, etc... are slowly becoming harder and harder to find on gun store shelves. I see this fate befalling the .224 Valkyrie at some point within the next few years...mega hype, lotsa support, yet ultimately it couldn't do much more than a .22-250 with a fast-twist barrel could.

When the yardsticks are so versatile, think .223/.22-250, .243 Win, the.270/7mm Rem, .30-30, the .30-06/.308 and .300 Win /.375 H&H...the newly released cartridges that don't really stand out from these tried and true workhorses are hard pressed to succeed.

The .338 Federal is a neat idea and it could see some use in elk/moose country...but does it really out do the .30-06 or .308 enough to trade in my current rifle for an entirely new one? :(

Stay safe!
 
Riomouse911 said:
It's another of the dozens upon dozens of "great cartridges that for reasons beyond this writers' comprehension never caught on." Someone's gotta keep the ad men, PR team and gun magazine editors employed :).

Every one that faded or flat-out flopped has had it's champions; the Lazzeroni's were high-powered long-range killers...but they were too proprietary and cost an arm and a leg to own and feed; the SAUM's and WSM's had a short-powder column for accuracy and efficiency...yet they all pretty much died on the vine (except for the .300 WSM which is hanging on) because they really didn't offer anything more than established rounds did; every one of the .358 bores has gun writers and hunters constantly singing their praises...yet all that were released post-.35 Rem have staggered about a bit and then ultimately faded to pretty much cult-status, etc.

Even the old standbys such as the .250 Savage, .257 Roberts, .300 H&H, the .222 Rem, etc... are slowly becoming harder and harder to find on gun store shelves. I see this fate befalling the .224 Valkyrie at some point within the next few years...mega hype, lotsa support, yet ultimately it couldn't do much more than a .22-250 with a fast-twist barrel could.

When the yardsticks are so versatile, think .223/.22-250, .243 Win, the.270/7mm Rem, .30-30, the .30-06/.308 and .300 Win /.375 H&H...the newly released cartridges that don't really stand out from these tried and true workhorses are hard pressed to succeed.

The .338 Federal is a neat idea and it could see some use in elk/moose country...but does it really out do the .30-06 or .308 enough to trade in my current rifle for an entirely new one? :(

Stay safe!
Click to expand...
If you're eyeballing the .338 fed, then you'll compare the .35 rem, the .30-30 win bolt actions, the .30-40 krag, the boring .30-06 (no need for an under gunned amateur .308 or 6.5 swede wannabe) skip the .300's, and decide you NEED a hot 22/6mm, a .275rigby and a 500 nitro express.......or maybe a .22wmr and a .375 ruger.......or maybe a 1:9twist 22-250 and a 12 ga........golly life is good eh?
 
The .338 seemed interesting back when i first started reading about it. Its probably not gonna die any time soon, but i doubt it will have any real "success" for all the reason listed.
But again, within a very limited scope of use, i thin its a very neat little round.
The only use id have for the .338 is in a very light, very short rifle, that i needed to kill large non dangerous critters with at short range. I would personally probably choose the .358 over the .338 depending on magazine length, just because round nose bullets in 225 and 250gr are available for .358.

horsey300 said:
If you're eyeballing the .338 fed, then you'll compare the .35 rem, the .30-30 win bolt actions, the .30-40 krag, the boring .30-06 (no need for an under gunned amateur .308 or 6.5 swede wannabe) skip the .300's, and decide you NEED a hot 22/6mm, a .275rigby and a 500 nitro express.......or maybe a .22wmr and a .375 ruger.......or maybe a 1:9twist 22-250 and a 12 ga........golly life is good eh?
Click to expand...
you know, i could see owning that list, well besides the 500NE...thats just too much of a good thing........
 
Nope. Too little (358 and 35 Whelen), Too late (333 OKH and 338 Win Mag), and Too small a niche (perhaps just as well filled by the 35 Remington).

But there will be some for which it is ideal.

To elaborate: If your game is that big and close, the 35 Remington will likely work just as well in a well-balanced, nicely-handling package. If it is farther away, the 338 Win. Mag. has much longer legs and is much more versatile (but it will kick a bit more).
 
My little T3 in 338 Fed is a gem. The rifle is light weight and very accurate. That's good enough. I'm thinking that there is a rediscovery going on now. On the plus side? There's a large variety of excellent bullets. Cases are very easily formed. Plenty of loading data. The number of redundant cartridges in America mainly has to do with marketing.
 
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Marketing is the killer. As long as they keep telling us to use, and buy sub caliber rifles the 338 fed will only be used and desired by the experienced. The trend seems to be to kill as far as possible, with the least recoil. I'd take the bigger bullet and closer range any time. The problem with the 338 fed, is bullet selection. .338 bullets are tough! Put a 200gn hdy interlock in there and deer can be slayed with ease. But that's an old boring bullet nowadays
 
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