Is the Remington 597 now superior to the Ruger 10/22?

[HetchHetchy]

Is the Remington 597 now superior to the Ruger 10/22? I ask this after seeing two brand new ones laying side by side at the range.

The 597 most certainly had feeding problems when it was introduced. No argument there. But those problems have been addressed through design changes and the current 597s operate well. Extremely well actually.

The 597 seems to be more "adult sized" than the 10/22. It has a superior twin tool-steel guide rail bolt-guidance system. It also seems better finished than the 10/22 these days, plus it's less expensive -- in some cases a lot less expensive.

At the same time Ruger seems to be cost-reducing the 10/22 more and more. More plastic parts, paint rather than bluing, etc.

Perhaps It's just me as I have always favored the Marlin Model 60 over the 10/22, but the 597 really does seem to have real advantages over the venerable Ruger these days. Like the Model 60. I suspect the 597 is also more inherently accurate than the 10/22?

 

[JeffRaines]

I've seen a few videos on YouTube where the 597 was more accurate out of the box than the 10/22... but then again nearly everything they tested was IIRC. That drove me to get the Model 60 I have now and let me tell you that thing is a tack driver. It can put them in the same hole at 50yards with mini mags.

 

[LoonWulf]

I got a 597 the same yeqr they were released, and there were feeding issues id associate with the mags, but otherwise the gun ran flawlessly. It was also very accurate. The only reason i dont still own it is because a friend took a liking to it.

I also still have a 10/22 converted to .17m2. The original gun was plenty accurate for plinking, and short range hunting, but not nearly as good as the 579. With the mach2 barrel on it groups run 1" or so at 100yds.

I also had a model 60 that i shot thousands of roumds thru. It shot great but also not as accurate as the 597. I liked the fact it held more rounds, and with the weight forward it held steadier on target.

Honestly the cost cutting in most of the guns ive looked at these days are mostly cosmetic, or the use of cast machined parts (in triggers etc). The cosmetics are annoying, and as long as the machining is good the cast parts are fine as well.

Now that im reminded of it, i may need to go buy another 597.....

 

[Nature Boy]

I bought one each 597s for my two kids. Never had an issue with them feeding and they shoot very accurately. They don't get much use as the kids have graduated to bigger stuff but for $130 ea including a scope how could you go wrong?

 

[shootniron]

I have never been a fan of the 10/22...or the 597, for that matter...give me a model 60, anytime.

 

[VoodooMountain]

I don't know if the 597 is better but I think the 10/22 is certainly overrated.

The Ruger has a Terrible trigger that they offer an upgrade for for $60 but not even as an option for the gun.

I don't like the barrel band. It doesn't look particularly good and it can effect accuracy.
I take them off and groups improve a tiny bit but of course the stock is cut out for this band so it looks hideous.

In recent years Everything but the barrel and receiver seem to be plastic now.

The mag release lever moves the wrong way and the bolt release isn't intuitive either. I know it only takes a minute to become familiar with the controls but they are about opposite of how I want them. It's no deal breaker though.

Finally, the accuracy is mediocre and I get tired of people urging others to just replace the barrel, stock, etc. It defeats the purpose and frankly shouldn't be necessary to get good to great accuracy.

The wood stocked versions feel more like a real firearm as opposed to a plastic toy like several other 22 rifles. I also really like that the magazine sits flush with the stock.

 

[JeffRaines]

I don't know if the 597 is better but I think the 10/22 is certainly overrated.

The Ruger has a Terrible trigger that they offer an upgrade for for $60 but not even as an option for the gun.

I don't like the barrel band. It doesn't look particularly good and it can effect accuracy.
I take them off and groups improve a tiny bit but of course the stock is cut out for this band so it looks hideous.

In recent years Everything but the barrel and receiver seem to be plastic now.

The mag release lever moves the wrong way and the bolt release isn't intuitive either. I know it only takes a minute to become familiar with the controls but they are about opposite of how I want them. It's no deal breaker though.

Finally, the accuracy is mediocre and I get tired of people urging others to just replace the barrel, stock, etc. It defeats the purpose and frankly shouldn't be necessary to get good to great accuracy.

The wood stocked versions feel more like a real firearm as opposed to a plastic toy like several other 22 rifles. I also really like that the magazine sits flush with the stock.

I think when you buy a 10/22 you're really buying the aftermarket possibilities. Some people like buying something and then replacing everything.

 

[Sun Tzu warrior]

IMHO the 597 is a nightmare to disassemble and re-assemble.
Hope they re-designed that part.
STW

 

[jmr40]

Ruger makes many different versions of the 10-22. For some reason the Carbine is the most common and many folks don't even realize they make others. Buy one with a stock made for an adult and you'll really like em

My brother's last 10-22 was one of the Deluxe models with full size walnut stock. It was $5 more than the Carbine with the kids stock and cheap wood.

http://ruger.com/products/1022Sporter/models.html

I bought one of these and it out shoots my CZ 452. It comes with a target trigger and a medium weight 20" target barrel. Price was less than $30 over the Carbine.

http://ruger.com/products/1022Sporter/specSheets/1237.html

I wouldn't touch one of the 10-22 Carbines, but if you buy one of the better Rugers, Remington has nothing to compete.

 

[ford8nr]

I wouldn't touch one of the 10-22 Carbines, but if you buy one of the better Rugers, Remington has nothing to compete.

Took the words out of my mouth. Find a 10/22 LVT, shoot right out of the box and tell me the Rem's better. Now grant it, it's a $300 10/22.

 

[LoonWulf]

597HB, dosent look like Remington currently catalogs any wood stocked 597s. They are available, but not current production.

 

[HetchHetchy]

Ruger makes many different versions of the 10-22. For some reason the Carbine is the most common and many folks don't even realize they make others. Buy one with a stock made for an adult and you'll really like em

My brother's last 10-22 was one of the Deluxe models with full size walnut stock. It was $5 more than the Carbine with the kids stock and cheap wood.

Ruger makes three basic sizes of stocks for the 10/22 -- the compact (for kids and small adults), the carbine (for adults) and the sporter (for adults.)
Other than individual fit to a specific person, none are inherently more accurate than the others.

I bought one of these and it out shoots my CZ 452. It comes with a target trigger and a medium weight 20" target barrel. Price was less than $30 over the Carbine.

http://ruger.com/products/1022Sporter/specSheets/1237.html

I wouldn't touch one of the 10-22 Carbines, but if you buy one of the better Rugers, Remington has nothing to compete.

That's simply not true. Both my Remington 552 (semi-auto) and my Remington 572 pump will shoot rings around any stock 10/22. I'm fairly certain a stock 597 will out-shoot a stock 10/22 (even with the sporter stock.) I'll have to run a test sometime. I'm also sure a Marlin 60 will out shoot any 10/22.

 

[HetchHetchy]

Took the words out of my mouth. Find a 10/22 LVT, shoot right out of the box and tell me the Rem's better. Now grant it, it's a $300 10/22.

How do you define "better"? Accuracy? I know a $150.00 Marlin Model 60 will out-shoot any stock 10/22. I suspect a 597 will as well.

 

[bannockburn]

I have a much older 10/22; tack driver right out of the box. My son wanted a 597; worst gun I have ever tried to get to work right. Maybe things have changed a lot over the years but I would still go with another 10/22 before I would even consider looking at a 597.

 

[MedWheeler]

My old 10/22 (1986) seems to be better than most of what I see currently offered under that name, but I've never put it up against a Remington.

However, I have a recently-acquired Mossberg 702 that has amazed me with it slick handling, reliability, and accuracy. If a $99 rifle can go that well, I'd venture to say a 597 should be pretty good, too.

 

[ECVMatt]

I will admit that I prefer the Ruger 10/22. It's simple, easy to work on, accurate, and has a great magazine system. However for some variety, I bought a Remington 597. This took a lot of pressure from friends as I still had a bad taste in my mouth from a Remington Viper. The 597 ended up being only slightly better than the Viper. I jammed constantly and although accurate to some degree, the constant jamming ruined the overall experience. It did go back to Remington, but didn't come home much better. I realize that this is a "One Off" experience and that there are a lot of 597's out there that shoot great, but I have not had this happen with a 10/22. I think I would much rather go with a Marlin 60, they are great rifles and like the 10/22 are highly reliable.

 

[boom boom]

I generally like Rugers but have never bought a 10/22. My FIL has several and I have fired them but just never bonded with them. Biggest advantage is the aftermarket stuff available.

I have had better luck with a Marlin 60 in tube fed and a Savage 64 for mag fed.
A company named MCarbo sells trigger springs to replace the factory ones and they improve the Marlin and Savage stock triggers significantly.

 

[jmorris]

The 597 does not and likely will never have the aftermarket support the Ruger does.

Seems like no one ever leaves things as they came these days and you have lots of stuff to pick through for the 10/22.

 

[HetchHetchy]

I will admit that I prefer the Ruger 10/22. It's simple, easy to work on, accurate, and has a great magazine system. However for some variety, I bought a Remington 597. This took a lot of pressure from friends as I still had a bad taste in my mouth from a Remington Viper. The 597 ended up being only slightly better than the Viper. I jammed constantly and although accurate to some degree, the constant jamming ruined the overall experience. It did go back to Remington, but didn't come home much better. I realize that this is a "One Off" experience and that there are a lot of 597's out there that shoot great, but I have not had this happen with a 10/22. I think I would much rather go with a Marlin 60, they are great rifles and like the 10/22 are highly reliable.

The Rugers are indeed reliable and the rotary mags are great. The 597s are vastly improved from the past. Using new OEM magazines alone will make a huge difference.

The Marlin 60s were great when they were being built in CT. When production was moved to Madison, NC, product quality really took a nosedive. Now that they are being built in Huntsville, AL, they seem to be better than ever.

PS: I wish we could shoot at Clampouts. At least before 10:00 AM or so, before the drinking begins...

 

[HetchHetchy]

The 597 does not and likely will never have the aftermarket support the Ruger does.

Seems like no one ever leaves things as they came these days and you have lots of stuff to pick through for the 10/22.

That's very true. Lots of stuff is made for the 10/22 -- some of which is aimed at making them shoot more accurately.

I really enjoy getting the most out of guns as designed. Other than a SeeAll sight, a custom butt stock spacer and a few pieces of skateboard tape, my 597 is completely stock.

 

[cdb1]

I don't have any desire to purchase a semi-auto .22, and then replace most of the firearm with aftermarket parts. If I did I'd get a 10/22. I'm happy with my Model 60. If I were in the market for another I'd get a CZ 512.

 

[CraigC]

A Marlin model 60 was my first firearm at age 10 and it has had untold thousands of rounds put through it and it has taken several truckloads of small game and varmints. I then got my first 10/22 back in 1992 which has been built into three different configurations. It is probably my most-used rifle and has also had untold thousands of rounds put through it and has also accounted for truck loads of small game and varmints. I also got a Remington 597 in 1999 so I have a good many years with all three rifles being discussed. Today, the Marlin is in storage somewhere and hasn't been shot in years. Same for the Remington. Not only am I still trying in vain to wear out the 10/22, one of my favorite rifles but it has three brothers and another will be bought soon.

I'd love to know where all these inaccurate 10/22's are because I've never seen one. IMHO, there are lots of myths surrounding these guns and most are unfounded but I think I understand where they originate. I will say that MY 597 outshoots both my stock 10/22's and my Marlin 60 but the difference is negligible.

1. They are inaccurate. Hogwash. They are perfectly acceptably accurate for what they are and that is an inexpensive, rugged and reliable plinker. The fact that they can be made much more accurate with aftermarket additions should not imply that they are poor shooters out of the box. Fact is, Clark Custom Guns created the heavy barrel 10/22 craze by crafting them into purpose built machines for competition. Building race guns by improving what was there, like any other competition gun, not fixing what was broken.

2. You have to replace everything to get a decent rifle. The fact that folks DO replace nearly every part in a custom build should not imply that they were poor from the start. IMHO, this comes from Marlin 60 shooters who think that because folks replace a bunch of stuff on 10/22's that they're somehow inferior. They are not. Newsflash, nobody spends hundreds if not thousands of dollars building a custom gun off a piece of crap. Fact is, they are excellent rifles out of the box that can be made better and that is what people are doing. Making them better. Not fixing a clunker. The 10/22 can become ANYTHING the individual wants it to be and the same cannot be said for the competition.

3. They have poor triggers. Nearly everything these days has a poor trigger, especially autoloaders, because of irresponsible shooters and frivolous lawsuits. Thank the lawyers, don't' blame the manufacturers. The 10/22 is no different, the 597 and Marln 60 are no different. At least, not according to my trigger scale. The big difference being that you can get a great trigger out of the Ruger for $40 or spend as much as $300 and get a competition grade trigger. Can't do that with either the Marlin or the Remington.

4. The basic carbine is not sized for adults. I don't know where this one comes from. It has the same LOP as just about every other standard length Ruger rifle, including the walnut sporter. Same barrel as well, except for a few distributor specials.

5. They are poorly finished. Another bogus notion. For a couple of years, Ruger was doing a blasted finish on the barrels and a wrinkle finish on the receivers. They never switched from bluing to "paint". Apparently some folks can't tell the difference between matte bluing and paint. This was a cost cutting measure. They have since gone back to the previous teflon coated receiver and brushed finish barrels. What folks need to keep in mind is that the 10/22 has NOT increased in price relative to inflation, making the 10/22 more affordable today than it was 20yrs ago.

6. The polymer trigger group was a down grade. Another bogus whining point. Firstly, both the Marlin and Remington offerings are no better. Secondly, they aluminum housings weren't that great. It's not like they were finely polished and blued steel. They were teflon coated or clear anodized aluminum and with any amount of use, they started looking like crap. No problem for the new polymer housings, which are also made to more precise tolerances. I find nothing to complain about here.

 

[cdb1]

CraigC, I agree that the Model 60, 597 and 10/22 have equally horrible triggers. I also believe it's a Ford/Chevy thing concerning the 10/22, Model 60 debate. If I were going to do a bunch of mods I'd get a Ruger. If not a Model 60. I do feel that a stock Model 60 is usually more accurate than stock 10/22 but by a very slim margin. In my perfect world the Model 60 would have the 10/22 rotary magazine system.

 

[Llama Bob]

I see quite a few people on the line running all of the .22 auto options for position shooting. The more I see, and watch people struggle with the various rifles' problems (and they all have them), the more respect I have for the Ruger 10/22 sporter LVT model (model #1235 etc) specifically as scoped .22 auto.

Acceptable reliability, acceptable trigger, acceptable barrel accuracy, acceptable manual of arms (although last-round lockback would be nice and can be added), the dubious Ruger irons omitted, and a reasonable stock in terms of rigidity with sling swivels already installed.

If you're planning to install Tech Sights instead, a model #1150 seems to be a good start.

 

[ECVMatt]

The Rugers are indeed reliable and the rotary mags are great. The 597s are vastly improved from the past. Using new OEM magazines alone will make a huge difference.

The Marlin 60s were great when they were being built in CT. When production was moved to Madison, NC, product quality really took a nosedive. Now that they are being built in Huntsville, AL, they seem to be better than ever.

PS: I wish we could shoot at Clampouts. At least before 10:00 AM or so, before the drinking begins...

I think shooting before the Clampout is a great idea! I am from Slim Princess 395 in Bishop and we usually go shoot in the Owen's Valley before the Clampout and then stow the weapons and get our Clamp on!