22-rimfire
Member
Maybe I need to buy a 9mm? 
Actually I own one but have never shot it. I will eventually sell it.
Actually I own one but have never shot it. I will eventually sell it.
Is the shooting experience being priced into Elitism?
- Thread starter valnar
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maskedman504
Member
Elite? More like luxury.
Luxury items are unessential for survival that you spend extra income on.
Elite is more like yachts, planes, alpine homes etc.
If you are trying to shoot twice a week and then complain about it, maybe shoot less.
I shoot what I can afford; at the current time, I get to the range 6-12 times a year- but it is always a blast!
Luxury items are unessential for survival that you spend extra income on.
Elite is more like yachts, planes, alpine homes etc.
If you are trying to shoot twice a week and then complain about it, maybe shoot less.
I shoot what I can afford; at the current time, I get to the range 6-12 times a year- but it is always a blast!
I'm working class without a lot of disposable income. We drive older vehicles to avoid car payments. Live in a "big enough" house. Animals were other people's cast-offs. We can afford a couple of short driving trips a year or one longer fly-in vacation. Go to the movies a couple of times a month. Putting the kid in braces. Yep, I'd say mid-working class. I don't consider owning A gun a luxury, but more than one; yes. I do things like buy trade-in guns and will start reloading in the nearish future. Getting the equipment to do competition shooting is a bit of a stretch but once I have it ammo will be the only cost and that will be do-able. I'm hoping to pick up a carry gun this coming summer. If shooting was elitist, I wouldn't have been able to get into it.
bushmaster1313
Member
Shoot less rounds per hour.
Where before I would shoot a whole box of .40s and a whole box of .38's at one trip to the range, now I am happy to shoot half a box of each.
Where before I would shoot a whole box of .40s and a whole box of .38's at one trip to the range, now I am happy to shoot half a box of each.
El Mariachi
Member
I just got a small shock last weekend...... .300 Savage is NOT cheap....
mgkdrgn
Member
Not while there are still .22's and Mosins out there!
Hardtarget
Member
What I see is the cost of gosoline eating into the budget so bad I cannot justify as much shooting. Just driving to the range is...noticeable. I have a good bit of ammo so I can take my grandson shooting every so often without buying ammo but we still have to get there! Then I stop and fill up...and...
Mark
Mark
browningguy
Member
The short answer has to be no, shooting is cheaper now than almost any time in history based on a cost of living/salary comparison.
And we have many more options now than when I started in the early 60's.
And we have many more options now than when I started in the early 60's.
I think anyone who is passionate about the sport will find ways to make it happen, whether its downsizing in caliber, less range time, etc. The same people I knew 20 years ago who did a fair amount of shooting.....still do a fair amount of shooting. It may dissuade new shooters a bit, before they get bitten by the shooting "bug" but in my experience, a shooter is a shooter,and very few things can or will change that. Frequency, duration, and or caliber may change, but most people who care about the sport or hobby find ways to make it happen, regardless of income levels or cost. That might mean shooting a brick of .22 rather than 3-4 boxes of .223 or whatever, but shooters find a way to shoot!
As a few others have said, relative to the price of things in general, shooting is actually less expensive than it has been at many times in the past.
Whether you realize it or not, we live in a golden age of weapons technology. Once upon a time, only the very richest could afford very high quality weapons. This is why, during times of conflict, most people pressed farm implements into service.
In these days, a very serviceable rifle can be had for less than what most people earn in a week. Spending more won't necessarily net a "better" arm, just a more expensive one. Same thing with sidearms: a sidearm as good as anything out there can be had for about 3 or 4 days' worth of work, for most of us.
What used to be prohibitive pricing- like the $200 tax that was astronomical in late 1930s USA- is not so out of reach, now. In many ways, we have it good.
John
Whether you realize it or not, we live in a golden age of weapons technology. Once upon a time, only the very richest could afford very high quality weapons. This is why, during times of conflict, most people pressed farm implements into service.
In these days, a very serviceable rifle can be had for less than what most people earn in a week. Spending more won't necessarily net a "better" arm, just a more expensive one. Same thing with sidearms: a sidearm as good as anything out there can be had for about 3 or 4 days' worth of work, for most of us.
What used to be prohibitive pricing- like the $200 tax that was astronomical in late 1930s USA- is not so out of reach, now. In many ways, we have it good.
John
As mentioned things are cheaper today than in most of our history.
There was a time period where it was even better. The buying power and wealth of the United States, and the lack of industrial capacity in much of the third world and corresponding reduced demand for even their own resources, along with a few other things made the 1990s probably the best it had ever been for US citizens to get the most from their dollar.
So yes it is today worse than then, but better than it will probably ever be again as much of the world catches up.
When one looks at prior prices one must also look at the value of currency at that point, your average wages, minimum wages, and what other commodities cost.
Things have been getting worse for over a decade, but that is because you experienced the best it had ever been in history.
Today you can buy these things cheaper than in most of our nation's history, even though there was a brief period were you had it even better.
Just listen to stories of prior decades when many people used to have to ration individual shots, and ammo was so valuable that shooting outside of hunting was often considered wasteful.
Going and shooting hundreds of rounds as many do now at the range, or thousands as many do in a competition, would have been nearly unheard of for most people in many prior generations.
Today it is rare to see someone shoot less than a box of 20-50 handgun rounds at the range on a single visit. A visit they make on a regular basis. In some generations that was as many as people shot all year.
In fact it might be interesting to figure out how many rounds people like Elmer Kieth shot in a year, I bet your average competition shooter shoots more annually today.
Your average person today who prioritizes firearms can put more rounds down range than the people shooting the most rounds in society who lived and breathed firearms for their livelihood AND recreation some generations ago.
That said it is getting expensive for those who do not prioritize firearms compared to the 1990s and 2000s.
I don't do much shooting anymore, having other interests I would have to neglect. There is many great things to do in life, and investing enough in projecting pieces of metal that it reduces other experiences seems wasteful.
Shooting was so inexpensive that it didn't require any prioritization or budgeting for awhile there, and could just be an extra misc activity in addition, but now it actually is a sizable recreational cost.
Of course everything is going up. In the 90s people could drive around all day 'cruising' for recreation as was popular amongst youth and it cost little more than spare change. A road trip was the dirt cheap way to travel anyone could afford if they had time.
Today just driving straight to and from local destinations adds up, and driving even halfway across the country costs more than flying.
Some of the cost of shooting is also due to legislation.
Without the prohibitions on 'armor piercing' ammo someone could have a dirt cheap scrap iron core projectile coated in polymer that was 1/3 of the price of current bullets. Which could probably cut the cost of plinking handgun ammo at least in half.
There was a time period where it was even better. The buying power and wealth of the United States, and the lack of industrial capacity in much of the third world and corresponding reduced demand for even their own resources, along with a few other things made the 1990s probably the best it had ever been for US citizens to get the most from their dollar.
So yes it is today worse than then, but better than it will probably ever be again as much of the world catches up.
When one looks at prior prices one must also look at the value of currency at that point, your average wages, minimum wages, and what other commodities cost.
Things have been getting worse for over a decade, but that is because you experienced the best it had ever been in history.
Today you can buy these things cheaper than in most of our nation's history, even though there was a brief period were you had it even better.
Just listen to stories of prior decades when many people used to have to ration individual shots, and ammo was so valuable that shooting outside of hunting was often considered wasteful.
Going and shooting hundreds of rounds as many do now at the range, or thousands as many do in a competition, would have been nearly unheard of for most people in many prior generations.
Today it is rare to see someone shoot less than a box of 20-50 handgun rounds at the range on a single visit. A visit they make on a regular basis. In some generations that was as many as people shot all year.
In fact it might be interesting to figure out how many rounds people like Elmer Kieth shot in a year, I bet your average competition shooter shoots more annually today.
Your average person today who prioritizes firearms can put more rounds down range than the people shooting the most rounds in society who lived and breathed firearms for their livelihood AND recreation some generations ago.
That said it is getting expensive for those who do not prioritize firearms compared to the 1990s and 2000s.
I don't do much shooting anymore, having other interests I would have to neglect. There is many great things to do in life, and investing enough in projecting pieces of metal that it reduces other experiences seems wasteful.
Shooting was so inexpensive that it didn't require any prioritization or budgeting for awhile there, and could just be an extra misc activity in addition, but now it actually is a sizable recreational cost.
Of course everything is going up. In the 90s people could drive around all day 'cruising' for recreation as was popular amongst youth and it cost little more than spare change. A road trip was the dirt cheap way to travel anyone could afford if they had time.
Today just driving straight to and from local destinations adds up, and driving even halfway across the country costs more than flying.
Some of the cost of shooting is also due to legislation.
Without the prohibitions on 'armor piercing' ammo someone could have a dirt cheap scrap iron core projectile coated in polymer that was 1/3 of the price of current bullets. Which could probably cut the cost of plinking handgun ammo at least in half.
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Ragnar Danneskjold
Member
Score another point for the media.
Salmoneye
Member
I know very few people that 'shoot' more than a couple of times a year, and even less that reload...
I know LOTS of people that hunt many days a year, and 'shoot' when they do...
Around here 'shooting' is not the 'sport'; hunting is...
A couple friends and family get together maybe a half dozen times a year to shoot hand tossed clays...$20 a piece on 100 round box of Wally-World promo shells, and you have one heck of an afternoon...
You can shoot on the cheap here, if you have a place to shoot...Luckily, this is still a very laid back place with lots of open space between neighbors...There are also a couple of 'ranges' comprised of old gravel pits that are privately owned and user maintained...Check in at the house on the way into the pit, and if there is a mess when you leave, you will not be welcome back...Much of the use of these places is LEO from miles around...
BTW
I did not get into reloading to 'save money'...I started because I bought a .357 Herrett barrel for my Contender, and there was no such thing as 'commercial' ammo for it...
Learning to dial in loads that would group how I wanted them got me hooked, and I started in on most other calibers I had...
I know LOTS of people that hunt many days a year, and 'shoot' when they do...
Around here 'shooting' is not the 'sport'; hunting is...
A couple friends and family get together maybe a half dozen times a year to shoot hand tossed clays...$20 a piece on 100 round box of Wally-World promo shells, and you have one heck of an afternoon...
You can shoot on the cheap here, if you have a place to shoot...Luckily, this is still a very laid back place with lots of open space between neighbors...There are also a couple of 'ranges' comprised of old gravel pits that are privately owned and user maintained...Check in at the house on the way into the pit, and if there is a mess when you leave, you will not be welcome back...Much of the use of these places is LEO from miles around...
BTW
I did not get into reloading to 'save money'...I started because I bought a .357 Herrett barrel for my Contender, and there was no such thing as 'commercial' ammo for it...
Learning to dial in loads that would group how I wanted them got me hooked, and I started in on most other calibers I had...
ny32182
Member
Totally agreed... these "woe is me" threads just crack me up after a while.
Ask yourself whether your father or grandfather, when he was your age, could do the amount of shooting you do now.
In my case the answer is no. Hell no. A resounding no. No chance whatsoever. They wouldn't have had the chance to laugh at the thought, because there is no way it would have ever entered their mind.
It wouldn't surprise me in the least if I shoot more rounds in one month of competition pistol practice than my older relatives did in a decade or more. We live in a golden age folks.
Fair question, but it does indicate a lack of familiarity with the shooting world and its history.
As several folks posted already, the cost in terms of average weekly pay to purchase a gun has been dropping for the last several decades.
Ammo has been getting more expensive, but we recently saw a several decade "reverse bubble" with lots of cheap imported surplus ammo that helped to drive prices down. Ammo prices in the 70's and early 80's were similar in dollar amounts to today's prices. And the dollar was worth about twice as much (or more) back then.
US Minimum wage is $7.25/hr. Forget all the payroll deductions. A low end 22 rifle on sale can be found for less than 15 hours of minimum wage. The cost of 22 ammo is about 3 hours labor for a 550 round bulk pack. 30 or 40 years ago that rifle was 20 hours of labor to purchase. Not the same rifle, but you get the point.
There are a lot of folks out there who cannot afford basic needs for food and shelter. That is a shame. I do not consider guns to be a luxury any more than I consider any other human right or individual liberty to be luxuries.
As several folks posted already, the cost in terms of average weekly pay to purchase a gun has been dropping for the last several decades.
Ammo has been getting more expensive, but we recently saw a several decade "reverse bubble" with lots of cheap imported surplus ammo that helped to drive prices down. Ammo prices in the 70's and early 80's were similar in dollar amounts to today's prices. And the dollar was worth about twice as much (or more) back then.
US Minimum wage is $7.25/hr. Forget all the payroll deductions. A low end 22 rifle on sale can be found for less than 15 hours of minimum wage. The cost of 22 ammo is about 3 hours labor for a 550 round bulk pack. 30 or 40 years ago that rifle was 20 hours of labor to purchase. Not the same rifle, but you get the point.
There are a lot of folks out there who cannot afford basic needs for food and shelter. That is a shame. I do not consider guns to be a luxury any more than I consider any other human right or individual liberty to be luxuries.
aka108
Member
I reload mostof what I shoot. A few years ago Remington bullets for most common calibers ran 85 to 95 dollar per 1000. So the price of copper rises maybe tripiling the material cost of the bullet but no enough to cause the prices to rise to 25 or 30 cents per bullet. Anyway, reloading at 40 to 50 cents a pop is still less expensive than a buck or buck and a half per pop for new stuff. Day at the range is still less expensive than a day of golf and you don't have to wear those funny clothes.
oneounceload
member
If it is costing too much switch from your fast-shooting semi to a nice single action - the time it takes to load and unload will stretch your shooting dollars over the same given period of time.
I still have shotgun ammo boxes i bought back in the early 1980's, and the prices were marked at $10 and up. Same ammo today after 30 years of inflation? $8 and up.
Most complaining about shooting costing too much do not reload, and shoot semi guns as fast as they can pull a trigger without regard (for a lot of them) as to any kind of single hole accuracy. I have watched young kids come to the indoor range with their guns and go through more ammo in a half hour then i shoot in a month or two -if you have the money to spend - go ahead and have at it all you want; if you don't, then find a way to better stretch your limited resources
I still have shotgun ammo boxes i bought back in the early 1980's, and the prices were marked at $10 and up. Same ammo today after 30 years of inflation? $8 and up.
Most complaining about shooting costing too much do not reload, and shoot semi guns as fast as they can pull a trigger without regard (for a lot of them) as to any kind of single hole accuracy. I have watched young kids come to the indoor range with their guns and go through more ammo in a half hour then i shoot in a month or two -if you have the money to spend - go ahead and have at it all you want; if you don't, then find a way to better stretch your limited resources
ny32182
Member
You can spend as much or as little as you want golfing, just like you can shooting, or doing just about any other activity.
I sold my .308 & .45's and got .223 and 9mm to save on ammo. .22's are much more than they were, but still reasonable, as are 12ga valupaks. Compared to what many folks spend on big screen TV's cable & satellite bills, CD's & DVD's, computors and cell phones that are obsolete when you walk out of the store, guns and shooting isn't that bad. Cheaper would be nice, but if you want to participate generally a way can be found.
As one who does a lot of competition shooting, I can tell you the cost of reloading components in the last 10 years has risen at a much higher rate than the increase in wages in my area. I used to shoot several thousand rounds a week while preparing for a big match. Now I shoot a couple of thousand rounds a month. The price for 9mm Zero 125 grain HP bullets is now $113.00 a thousand. Anyone want to guess what they cost in the year 2000? How soon we forget.
mortablunt
Member
The gun boards are full of the people who really are into shooting and not highly representative of the community in terms of skill, interest, or experience. People still buy cheap SKS, Mosin-Nagant, Hi-Point, Glock, Taurus, and Ruger firearms in droves, and cannot get sub MOA groups. People post about their high end guns because they are interesting. I could complain about the cost of shooting off guns being too expensive, but if I can only make $185 a week absolute maximum and have other things to spend money on shooting, then I can tackle the problem by shooting less often, buying cheaper ammo, using a bolt action versus a semiautomatic, use a cheaper caliber, buy bulk surplus, or fire less ammunition.
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I shoot more now that I moved to a slower paced area, and know less folks. But it can get expensive. Luckilly I have a range in town that only get's $10 dollars to shoot as long as you want. And they let you bring your own ammo, So if I catch a wallmart deal for 10 bucks a box for 9mm, and $16 for 40,45, I can do it for under $50 dollars. This allows me to fire a combo platter of whatever I brought with me that day, 380, maybe 3 or 4 mags, just for function test, then 100 rounds of 9, 50 of, 40 or 45. That's it. I can't stay indoors much longer than that, unless no one is there, in which case I can practice drawing and dbl tapping from out of holster. Since they never told me not to, i believe it's ok, as the owner has watched me shoot. Never says much, just a nod. No sense sitting there wasting lead when you shoot the same almost every shot. I can't imagine how some fellas shoot 300 or 400 rounds, for me it's just boring after about 150.If you want to save money , just shoot 9mm. You should have a fast reset trigger, so you can optimize the high capacity magazines in most 9's now a days.
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