Is there any reason to go to max loads?

[solman]

I have often read of reloaders working up safely to the maximum posted loads. I have never gone to the max loading myself. I Always felt safer leaving a margin for error.
Do any of you load max and why?
The only thing I can think of is that accuracy improve at max velocity.

 

[macgrumpy]

Accuracy is usually better when the powder charge is some amount less than max. In my experience I've found that max loads are only useful when I'm trying to push the energy to the highest level for hunting or when I'm trying to flatten the trajectory a little by increasing the velocity. Most often I prefer loads that are less than max- the weapon lasts longer and I don't have to deal with heavier recoil.

 

[Blue68f100]

I have one rifle that is loaded to max, happens to be a Rem 7mm Mag. The only reason was that's were the best accuracy showed up. In my brothers 7mm Mag his is 1.5 gr less, every gun is different. But 98% of the time it will be below max. Normally you will find 2 nodes that are accurate, 1 low, 1 high.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

I have often read of reloaders working up safely to the maximum posted loads. I have never gone to the max loading myself. I Always felt safer leaving a margin for error.
Do any of you load max and why?
The only thing I can think of is that accuracy improve at max velocity.

There is a built in safety margin in most load data so going to the and limits is not inherently dangerous. I sometimes do bump up against the limits of the data but not just to do it, it's when I'm trying to find the best accuracy. Other than accuracy the reasons for pushing the limits are flat trajectory like said above or to insure proper bullet expansion out to the distances you expect to be shooting/hunting.

For some reason over the past few Decades American shooters have come to think high velocity is the measure of ammo quality. Of course that is not true but try telling someone who is convinced it is that it isn't true.

 

[mdi]

I don't see much need for max. loads but 95% of my reloading is handguns. When I feel the need for more power/speed, or max. listed loads, I go to a bigger gun. That's why I have 5, .44 Magnums; .357 Mag. wasn't big enough. For my rifle ammo, my most accurate loads are usually far from max. (starting loads of IMR 4064 under a 155 gr. HPBT is by far more accurate in my Garand than with heavier/max. loads. Same with my 308 bolt gun).

 

[badkarmamib]

Since I have been reloading for less than a year, I have yet to need to go to max. For plinking pistol ammo, I stay at minimum, and have good groups, so no reason to increase. For my rifles' hunting loads, I started low and worked up, and stayed 1gr below published max. There may have been another accurate load in that last grain, but the deer won't care if the bullet hit at 2800 or 2875 FPS, and, if nothing else, I am saving money by using less powder But, I like having that margin to allow for my cheap inexpensive equipment, myself. I believe there is a factor of safety in published data, but I don't care to find out what the factor is...

 

[PapaG]

I have never bought in to the safety factor thing, but won't argue or say any one else is wrong that do. My choice, my belief. Never had reason to max out a load yet as I'm usually overgunned for the game hunted. I find most of mine are most accurate somewhere below max.
My one experience with max loads was with my 70 30-06 and some 110 grain varmint bullets. Weighed to .1 gr for all, seating depth exact to book. Cases neck turned and trimmed, segregated for weight. Fired three shots, should have stopped at one. Really tight bolt, flat primer, case head expansion .001". Pulled the rest.
Not saying anything against any one that likes max loads, just not for me.

 

[kingmt]

Max & min in published load data only means where they started & where they stopped. I have went higher & lower then those numbers given in a certain manual. I enjoy loads that are just enough to cycle my action & lay the brass in a nice pile at my feet. It doesn't take much to poke a hole in paper. I have also had to push hallow points really hard to get them to open. However most of my ammo is somewhere near the lower end of most published data. It really depends on what your looking for. There is usually at least two nodes were a bullet groups the tightest. Some times you need to go just above or just below a published data to find them but if you look at another published source you might find your in the middle of theirs.

 

[Dog Soldier]

The maximum loads are not necessarily suggested loads. They are intended to be a "Ceiling" and approached incrementally.

 

[Bart B.]

Maximum loads are typically safe in your firearms. For example, take the .308 Win cartridge.

SAAMI specs show its maximum average pressure is 62,000 psi as measured to its standards. There are single round pressure limits a couple thousand psi above that. SAAMI spec proof loads that are fired in rifles chambered for them average 83,000 psi with a max at 89,000 psi. Modern receivers start to crack from pressures at about 120,000 psi. The weakest link is the cartridge case which has to hold together in areas it's not supported by the bolt face and chamber. That's typically from the case head to about a fourth inch in front of the case head.

Cartridge brass starts to extrude at about 80 some odd thousand psi depending on its metals and hardness. Yet many reloaders seeing case head brass starting to extrude back into bolt face cutouts think as long as it barely shows, the load is safe enough. They're typically ignorant that it took somewhere above 80,000 psi to do that. And the old rule of thumb about extractor groove diameters increasing .001" after firing shows a maximum but safe load is equally as bad to use.

There is usually at least two (pressure?) nodes were a bullet groups the tightest.

First time I've been aware of that. Why does that happen?

 

[DeadEye9]

Most load Data in manuals is often on the safe side even with their max loading. That being said, in my experience max accuracy and max velocity are seldom found in the same load. Typically the most accurate load for a given bullet type will come somewhere towards the mid range of velocity and taper off some as the speed increases or decreases from the "sweet spot" for that projectile. The typical target shooter is going for accuracy, and efficiency which seldom requires going to a max load. The "chrono chasers" or ballistics nerds like myself will often press on and above max loads though simply to see what we can achieve in a given caliber/cartridge and what the terminal effects of higher velocity/higher pressure loads are. When developing my hunting loads for instance, I sacrifice some accuracy for more velocity and energy in most of my loads. The difference in .2-.3" of a group to gain an extra 200fps or so for me is worth it when I'm only hunting in an area where my furthest shot may be 150yds. I would rather have a little extra energy personally so i load accordingly. I've also been known to test high speed loads on a couple of AR500 armor plates out in the field and abuse some SimTest media with my test loads. Is there a practical reason for it? Usually not, but sometimes it's fun and educational so long as you have a solid understanding of what your are doing.

 

[ATLDave]

Reasons to go to max? Sure. Sometimes that's what it takes to get an accurate load, though not that often. Sometimes flatter trajectory or reduced flight time is important if you're worried about crosswinds. Sometimes you want the maximum terminal ballistic efficacy. Sometimes you just want to shoot "real" [caliber X].

In a properly engineered and maintained firearm, max should be safe. That's what max means - within the safe range. As others have noted, firearms (like almost any engineered product that will be asked to handle serious loads with injury/death in play for failures) are generally engineered with a safety factor over and above what would be needed to safely manage what has been agreed to as maximum.

Of course, when loading at or near max, it it even more important to be meticulous in loading practices. Small variances in charge weight or projectile weight or load length can have surprisingly large impacts on pressure when working near max. If you look carefully at load data, you can see that some powder recipes declare max at some significant amount below max measured pressure - this often indicates that pressure became seriously non-linear or unpredictable above that. Never assume that a 5% increase in powder charge above max will only result in a 5% increase in pressure!

 

[eldon519]

Depends on the cartridge, what I want it to do, and how hard you have to push it to get it to do that.

For instance, my .35 Whelen. I would like it to shoot a tad flatter, so I take it to max. It also has a super-long throat and can be seated long. MAP for .35W is 62,000psi, so going to max in it isn't really "going to max" per se. It has siblings like the .270 Winchester that go to 65kpsi, same casehead, same action. So pressure-wise, going to max in the .35W is like taking it easy with the .270.

Other rounds I regularly take way over max like .45 Colt in a Ruger or .45-70 in a Marlin. Sometimes max data is a historical relic, sometimes it is somewhat arbitrary like the -06 family, sometimes it is a line you are smart not to cross. I take it case by case.

I sometimes will also run up to max or a tad over max with a very small batch to make sure I have some room on the top end of a "production load" that I plan to make by the hundreds or by the thousands since I will not be weighing every charge.

 

[Walkalong]

Do any of you load max

Not generally. Sometimes.

 

[Ccctennis]

I have been reloading for about 6 years. I load for about 30 different guns. I have not yet reached book maximum on any guns. My 220 swift load testing found 2 winner nodes. 1 low. And 1 high.
My 6.5-284 also had 3 nodes 2 low and 1 high. The only gun I pushed close to maximum was my 357. Best accuracy was .3 short of book maximum.

 

[JO JO]

For my paper pouncher no neason to load max, I will find a load closer to the min charge , easier on the gun and use
Less powder, but these have no purpose other than putting holes in paper,

 

[firewrench044]

As a general rule NEVER
But there are exceptions 77gr and 80gr in 223 is one exception, when used in competition will always
be at or near the max
Black Hills at the military's request worked up a load for their 18 inch barrel designated marksman rifle
( Designated - MK 262 ) its a 77gr Sierra MK , they worked 2 years getting this very hot load and staying under pressures
that the rifles would work with and not be destroyed
( the boys with 14.5 inch barreled carbines love that cartridge they say its flatter shooting and a lot more accurate )
( the down side is it will not penetrate body armor )

 

[DeadEye9]

I agree with all of the above. For paper punching and generally for max accuracy there is no reason to go max load. But for testing and fun purposes I've gone max and beyond many times. One reason as was mentioned is just to shoot "real" pistol cartridges in stuff like .357 Sig, 10mm, .45 Colt etc. All factory stuff is pretty watered down and sometimes I just want to feel the punch a bit with high power loads. Some of my guns actually prefer hot (max or near max) loads as well. My DDM4 for instance shoots lightweight bullets from 50-60gr best at over 3000fps. It's only wearing a 16" barrel so that's a stout and manual max load. Dropping to 2850-2900 adds a solid .25" to the group at 75-100yds. Only with that rifle though. My bolt gun shoots tighter with a mid range load as do my longer barrel ARs. In the end It all depends on what your looking to accomplish and with what tools.

 

[Ironicaintit]

I like to load cartridges pretty hot, but the only load I use that is at listed max, is my 5.56, 55gr, IMR4198 load.
I think some people like recoil more than others.

 

[RAT807]

Why go to max? Max loads vary across published data. Different OAL, bullets, etc it all comes into play. Not to mention my 1960's era Sierra book shows higher max data than anything from now days. Here are a few examples to ponder...

9 mm. If you research this round you will learn a few things like SAAMI specs (USA) are lower than NATO rounds. While we do have +P and +P+ rounds they are hotter as well. Manufacturers data for my handgun says my 9mm is safe for +P+ rounds. On top of this, my chamber is a tad long and is more accurate with bullets seated long, with lowers pressure, all else being equal. So searching for an accurate load at or above posted max SAAMI specs is more likely a suggestion in my case. My loads are a bit below major power factor for 9mm and primers and cases look great after being fired.

280 Remington. This round came out originally in an auto loader, not a bolt action. Max PSI on this ammo is not as high because of this. A lot of the data and loads I have tested are above max, but I proceeded carefully above the max and watched for pressure signs. Load development below max I increase powder by .5 grains for ladder tests. Just below max I switch to .3 grains and go up 1 or 2 grains above while watching for PSI signs. My rifle also likes bullets seated long and I don't fully resize the cases. I use a FL sizer but only bump the shoulder back .002. I don't mind pulling bullets if the pressure gets high and I never had a stiff bolt lift on this rifle. I have 2 loads that best accuracy is at or a bit over published max, but the cases and primers do not show any signs of over pressure.

264 Win Mag. I have heard early loads pushed 140 grain bullets to 3200 fps. I think this round will be plenty strong 150 fps slower and get a bit more barrel life. I just had a new barrel installed and the first range session ended early cause of high pressure, hard bolt lift. This happened just below max listed in Berger's manual. So for this gun my max psi will be .8 grains below book max. I dropped back .5 grains to where brass looked ok. This still put me on the high side of the upper accuracy node with about a grain to go below it

I'm not trying to squeeze out the more speed from my ammo and guns but I do want to know where I need to stay away from based on how I load ammo, what the gun like vs the data in 4 or 5 different manuals. I also adjust neck tension and have seen accuracy and speed changes. YMMV. Be safe!

 

[Coltdriver]

I use the min and max as a range and work to find the most accurate load for a given powder/brass/primer/bullet. I have yet to find a max load that was also the most accurate. But there is nothing wrong with approaching or going to a max load to find out. I reload for hunting rifles so I am always looking to get the flattest shooting and most accurate round. For revolvers and pistols I rarely go to a max load as I just don't want the wear and tear on me or my weapons.

 

[z7]

Doesnt "max load" depend on data? according to hornady #9 my 41.6g of imr 4064 or 44g of varget with a 175 SMK in a 308 is exceeding the max. hodgdon data says otherwise.

i am stil trying to figure this whole thing out anyway, but i dont see a "max" as a limit, more like an approach with caution sign and if/when i see pressure signs stop and back away

 

[stringnut]

Generally stay away from max on older data. Some of that was really hot! I compare new data from several sources with same bullet. If the data is similar then it is safe to go to max. Some ball powders seem to shoot best at or near max. With stick powders , such as IMR powders, I find once loading density reaches 100% to slightly compressed there is usally little accuracy gain. Some stick powders don't fill the case and you shouldn't exceed the published max. However, accuracy may still be good. It all can be a crap shoot at times. Some powders burn much better at higher pressures and going to the max may be the key to getting good accuracy. If you are more comfortable staying down a bit some powder and bullet combination will do what you want. Have been loading for 40 years now and have done around 20 calibers and probably around 50 rifles amongst friends and family. Load to your needs not someone elses. My 30/06 loves 150 gr bullets at 2700 fps. Way below what can be done , but, consistantly an inch or less. I had a 7x57 that shot 139 gr great but had to run at wide open throttle with every powder tried.

 

[JO JO]

I would agree with the max loads and older data , I always use current load data when working up a new load

 

[greyling22]

I generally start at a starting load and work DOWN. but then, I'm a recoil weenie shooting lead with lightened springs. I think the only caliber I have had to work up to something was the m1 garand. That sucker just won't cycle with starting loads (using data for garands. not modern 30-06 load data)