Is There Anyone Here Who DOESN'T carry?

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BikerNut, Since carry permits do not exist in Illinois, in any form, your chances are actually better with the Lotto! :)

I used to live on Lake St, the northern border of Maywood. Ah, memories of hot summer nights, being gently lulled to sleep by the gunshots...good times.
 
I am recently legal to carry. I don't always carry my firearm for various reasons, but my license (KY) says I can carry a deadly weapon. I always have an automatic knife and will soon get a pair of concealable knuckles.

I don't want to sound like a mall ninja, but if I found myself in a general altercation with someone, (ie general prick, drunk beligerant guy, etc) I'd go for my knife or knuckles before escalating to drawing my firearm. It is a last resort.
 
I never leave the house without a gun, but I don't always carry it on my person at my destination.

Jeff
 
Treo -

I'm in my mid-40s, here in the Springs with you. Never considered carrying until about 3 years ago. Just didn't see the need, given the odds. I considered for about a year before getting the permit. Carried the permit, but rarely a weapon for most of a year.

Last November/December, the New Life shooting happened. That was just too close to home for me. Since then, I carry most of the time. Maybe twice a month at work, as it's a little risky, politically speaking. But almost everywhere else.
 
John Lott credible enough for you? I had his books from the gun club library so I don't have the precise citation I first read, but this interview repeats it.

It's not whether a person is credible or not - I like to read the studies myself.

John Lott is not - from what I have read - what I would consider a credible source, without carefully reading the studies he's reporting. But I feel that way about most people. Heck, I am learning Hebrew so I can read the Bible myself - I don't trust translators/

John Lott is more of what I would consider an activist than a scholar(not that there is anything wring with that). He's pretty willing to play fast and furiously with the numbers. For example in the second article you cite, he says:

But Americans also used guns defensively more than 2 million times that year, and more than 90 percent of the time merely brandishing the weapon was sufficient to stop an attack.

He claims for a fact - the guns were used more than 2 million times defensively in a given year - what is not a fact, but a speculation based on on other speculations.

The truth is that no one knows how many times guns are used defensively each year - as you can imagine, most defensive uses of handguns gun do not result in any paperwork, which makes them very hard to count.

I have read about the derivation of the "2 million times" estimate before - as I recall, it's an extrapolation based on set of assumptions about the frequency of the unreported uses of handguns versus the reported uses, etc. That number is an extrapolation based on a series of assumptions.

If he states as an absolute fact something that is almost pure speculation - that raises red flags for me.

Scholars are very careful with facts, activists are not. A scholar would almost never state speculation as fact. The careful distinction between fact and speculation makes scholars very annoying.

I have no doubt that John Lott is competent economist and a scholar, but he seems to flip back and forth between scholar and activist mode without warning, and I'd have to study his numbers fairly carefully to determine whether activist or the scholar is speaking.

Do you recall anything about the methodology of the study that reported the following?

... when she's confronted by a criminal ... A woman who behaves passively is 2.5 times as likely to end up being seriously injured as a woman who has a gun.

Reasons to be skeptical:

I also note that he was pretty careful not to say whether the women who were attacked and had guns used those guns to defend themselves during the attack.

Note that he very careful to slip in a bit of a false dichotomy: "passive" versus "has a gun".

I would be looking for evidence in the study that some other factor was not the causative factor.

For example, maybe the women who had guns in general had more financial resources. Most women are killed by men with whom they are in a relationship and/or ending a relationship. Women who are poorer in general stay in abusive relationships longer (a conjecture), and thus may be more likely to be the victim of multiple abusive attacks. If that's the case we would expect a woman who has more financial resources gets out of the relationship before sustaining serious injury than a woman with fewer financial resources.

It could also be that the kinds of women who have guns are less likely to get involved with men who who will cause them serious bodily injury. Whether or not she "has a gun", she's 100% certain never to be seriously injured by her husband. I would expect that women who own guns are more independent and self-confident than those that don't. That may mean that they are less likely to be involved in an abusive relationship.

In general, you would control for these other factors by starting with a very large sample, comparing two sets of women who vary only by one factor "has a gun". But I would have to believe that the sample in this case is very small.

Assume:


  1. I would guess that far less than 1% of women own guns - other than in the very general sense that my wife has a gun because I do.
  2. Assume that half of violent crime in the US is directed against women - which is a very high estimate (most women who are the victims of violent crime attacked by men with whom they have a relationship, and are unlikely to report that crime).
  3. Assume 25% of crimes are are violent crimes (that may be high -many criminals prefer theft, larcency, auto theft, etc.).

So 450,000 crimes * 25% estimate of violent crimes is 100 - 125,000 violent crimes each year.

Half of the reported violent crimes are against women = 50,000 - 60,000 (reported) violent crimes against women.

If 1% of those women have guns in their possession at the time of the attack, then we are looking at 500 to 600 (reported) violent crimes against women who have guns in their possession at the time of the crime. That's a tiny sample for any kind of serious study, isn't it?

My own conjecture is that gun ownership among women is in general positively correlated with affluence and self esteem, and negatively correlated with being an abusive relationship. It seems like, at the very least, you'd need to find women who were equally affluent and equally likely to be involved in an abusive relationship with equally violent abusers and compare the women in that group who had guns those who didn't. Starting with a sample in the low hundreds, how did Lott correlate that?

Note I am not arguing - I am really curious about the methodology involved. Since crime against women is wildly under-reported, I can't figure out how any reliable stats could be genertated.

Could you sketch out the methodology that supports the "2.5 time as likely" stat?

Thanks,
Mike
 
I can legally apply for CCW and have the means to CCW, but I can't carry it to school. So what's the point when I go to school almost every day? I'm just going to wait till later.
 
Oh, ok. One thing I agree with you on is carrying in church. It shows a lack of faith, in my opinion.

In my view, anyone who believes being in a church building matters one whit either way shows a lack of faith in a God who is almighty and all-knowing. His protection neither starts nor stops at the threshold of the churchbuilding
 
I'm a woman, I live in California and I have a CCW. But I don't carry. Reason: Can't find a decent holster that will conceal the gun. Still waiting for my Versa Max II (three months to go!).

And I got into the gun thing with no help from my husband who is not into guns at all. He's very supportive about my new hobby, though. :)
 
I Carry wherever possible, and work to make places I go to that prohibit Concealed Carry see the light..... as I see it, it is similar to the saying that "There is little functional difference between those who can not and do not read." Just substitute Carry for read........ that just about sums it up.
 
Illinois resident. I presume that all requirements would be met given a realistic stance on CCW. The only gun I own of reasonable size to carry is an old Czech .25acp but it would still be carried at all times under different circumstances. I definitely would not carry to/at work. The employers would never allow it and kitchen work is tight enough without an extra thorn in my side.
 
John Balze Says:

I own plenty of guns, recently got a CCL, and I do not carry. I just don't need to. I don't look for trouble, and although I know trouble might come looking for me, I have yet to have a problem. I know I'll probably get flamed for saying it, but i have faith in God to watch over me and keep me from harm. I live in a small town with a population of about 16k, and although there are some bad things that go on, none around where I live ( this is why I like to live in the country.)

However, when traveling out of town I keep my .357 in the car, and have various guns locked and loaded in my house at all times. God also helps those who help themselves.

Boanerge responds:

I'm a born again Christian, and I have a question, and I'm not trying to be a smart aleck; I trust in God to keep me safe yet, I still where safety belts. I also depend on God to keep me and my family safe and in good health, yet I still maintain Property and health insurance. Do you wear Seat Belts? Do you have Property and Health Insurance? CCW is Just insurance!!! Rember when Moses had the RED Sea in front of him and the Egyptians, behind him; Moses Prayed to Good to help Him and God responded , why do you trouble me, use your Staff and divide the REd Sea and walk through (Exodus 14: 11-16). Therefore, IMHO, americans exercising their CCW rights are performing their God given ability to protect themselves. Just food for thought.

and I repeat.

I know I'll probably get flamed for saying it, but i have faith in God to watch over me and keep me from harm. - God also helps those who help themselves.

Akodo says
In my view, anyone who believes being in a church building matters one whit either way shows a lack of faith in a God who is almighty and all-knowing. His protection neither starts nor stops at the threshold of the churchbuilding

and again, which you quoted:
Oh, ok. One thing I agree with you on is carrying in church. It shows a lack of faith, in my opinion. IN MY OPINION To each his own.

You may see why people might hold back from posting in such a thread, there's always someone ready to attack because you don't share THEIR opinion. That's not taking The High Road.......
 
I envy all of you guys who live in shall-issue states and take your rights for granted... I really really really wish I was allowed to carry a handgun to defend myself and my family.
 
John Blaze

I think there's a huge difference between disagreement and flaming. I was the first to post a disagreement and it still stands, carrying to church is showing lack of faith but carrying on the road is ok? Sorry, there's a disconect there for me. I have the right to express that opinion & it's not flaming.

I also have the right to take examples of why I disagree, I live in Co. Springs, there have been three church shootings here in the last year, one of them was stopped by some one who absolutely believes that God called her to carry in church.

The Bible says whatever isn't faith is sin, if you truly believe that it shows lack of faith to carry in church ( I haven't received that revelation yet brother) don't do it. But if you express that opinion in public don't get upset if people disagree and say so.
 
1. I didn't call it flaming, i merely quoted my earlier statement. I did, however call it an attack, but that's neither here nor there. One of the reasons so many threads get shut down around here is because some people like to squabble about piddly differences.

2. I also stated I live in a small town, and also in the country, I was explaining why I choose not to. If you live in a bad place, more power to you if you choose to carry, but that doesn't mean I have to, my town is not that bad.

Back to topic......
 
I am of age, I have a CHP, I live in Virginia. I collect, hunt and target shoot. I can't say I don't ever carry but I carry less that 1% of the time. When I feel the need to I do, most of the time I am not in areas or situations that I feel warrents me to carry my firearms. I got my CHP because it was easy and why not better to have than want. I do not really have the 'coolness factor' of wow I am carrying a gun thing, when I do carry it is for a specific reason. For example my neighborhood had a rash of armed robberies of christmas last year so I carried when I walked my dogs at night. The police have upped their presence and the 2 target families have moved so I don't feel the need anymore. The one place I feel the need to carry, and that is when I go into DC at night, I can't.
 
I wonder if we need a sticky summarizing all of the positions on whether or not Christians should or rely on faith, whether Jesus was a pacifist or or not, etc.

Then when someone posts the kinds of questions John Blaze asks, they can be referred to the sticky.

The use of weapons is not much of an issue for Jews. :)

Evil
 
Posted by JohnBlaze: "I know I'll probably get flamed for saying it, but I have faith in God to watch over me and keep me from harm."

Mr. Blaze:

I am not in any way belittling your faith. I am a Christian, and pray every day that God will keep me and my family safe.

But I carry virtually everywhere I go ......unless it is a place where CCW is prohibited. I believe that I have an obligation to "do my part" to protect myself and my family.

And frankly, I suspect that you do as well. I suspect that in most cases people's absolute reliance on divine protection is less than they profess. For example:

1. Do you wear seat belts? Do you make sure that infants are buckled into their car seats?

2. Does your church lock its doors at night ?

3. Does your congregation carry fire and casualty insurance on the church building?

4. Do you carry insurance on your car and home ?

5. Do you have a fire extinguisher and/or smoke detectors at your home or at your church ?

My point is this ............yes, we ask God to protect us. BUT I think we have certain responsibilities and obligations to do what we can to protect ourselves. Personally I think if God gave me the ability to defend myself or my family with a handgun, then I should use that talent, if necessary.
 
Can't carry at work, which means I pretty much don't carry at all - I spend very little time anywhere except home and work, and I'm often on the move between 'em, so...no real opportunities to carry.
 
it's not just about safety and "need"


"The Constitution of most of our states (and of the United States)
assert that [it is the people's] right and duty to be at all times armed..."

-- Thomas Jefferson

That made me view RKBA in a different light.
 
I also don't feel like practicing enough weapons retention to make carrying safe. I privately wonder how many people carrying could really keep their weapon away from a 20 year old meth head. I probably could not.

How can you say that when there are holsters like the blackhawk serpa and other holsters with advanced retention systems like that. Especially if it's concealed. If it's concealed no one will know about it. And if you have a good retention holster he probably would not be able to get it out anyway.
 
Those of you that don't carry because you "don't see the need to" grow up. And you probably won't see the need until you or someone you care about gets hurt. Of course it might not happen to you. But the reatlity is it does happen and it COULD happen to you. You don't want to be caught empty handed when and if it does happen to you.

Those of you that say that carrying is a hassle. Get a smaller lighter gun. Try different methods. Ankle carry is pretty easy. IMO it's not the best way to carry but it's better than not carrying at all.

We need to take the responsibility to protect ourselves and our families. Afterall, god helps those who help themselves.
 
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