Is there some method of storing CCW handgun when entering Canada?
- Thread starter tulsamal
- Start date
- Status
support2nd
Member
- Joined
- Jan 21, 2013
- Messages
- 2
How can Canadian agency know you are CPL holder? Does your state share the CPL database with Canadian government?
F-111 John
Member
I can only assume that the Canadian border agency, and probably their police entities, can access LEIN from either your DL or your vehicle's license plate, and that CPL information is linked to your DL in LEIN.
According to this news article, Ohio does share info with Canada. Since CHL info is available to Ohio LEO, that means Canada has access to it also.
http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2007/12/canada_steps_up_criminal_backg.html
TRX
Member
There are quite a few things you aren't allowed to bring to Canada. Not just firearms.
I've often thought some enterprising individual might make a few bucks renting temporary storage near the border. Some type of "bus locker" setup, where you pay and get a lockbox you can put your property in, and retrieve when you get back.
I've often thought some enterprising individual might make a few bucks renting temporary storage near the border. Some type of "bus locker" setup, where you pay and get a lockbox you can put your property in, and retrieve when you get back.
splattergun
Member
Also, do not attempt to transport any fresh produce across the border. The apple in your lunchbox will be confiscated.
Some people have reportedly figured out ways to store their guns in the U.S. before entering Canada. But the Canadian authorities will not hold your gun for you while you tour Canada. (And don't even think of pulling out a gun at the border and asking if they will keep it for you; they will keep you,for a while, guaranteed.)
Jim
Jim
tulsamal
Member
We are home. We didn't take any guns or knives or large pieces of wood that could be used as clubs. They asked us a few questions at the 1000 Island crossing point and that was it.
Beautiful country and nice to see the in-laws.
That's my third time to Canada since we got married… I do have an observation. The first time we went there was 91-93… somewhere in there. I was something of a curiosity. An American actually in their houses. Several people took the opportunity to explain to me how Canada was better than the US. Not mean-spirited, more like comparing your college to a friend's college. But I took a certain amount of good-natured harassment about all the "odd things" we were doing. My observation is that it didn't happen this time. I didn't even get kidded about Trump. Instead every question I asked about the government led to a long list of complaints about how worthless Trudeau was and how the government is issuing new regulations every day. Regulations that affect just normal day to day life. A lot of regular people that are sick of it.
Beautiful country and nice to see the in-laws.
That's my third time to Canada since we got married… I do have an observation. The first time we went there was 91-93… somewhere in there. I was something of a curiosity. An American actually in their houses. Several people took the opportunity to explain to me how Canada was better than the US. Not mean-spirited, more like comparing your college to a friend's college. But I took a certain amount of good-natured harassment about all the "odd things" we were doing. My observation is that it didn't happen this time. I didn't even get kidded about Trump. Instead every question I asked about the government led to a long list of complaints about how worthless Trudeau was and how the government is issuing new regulations every day. Regulations that affect just normal day to day life. A lot of regular people that are sick of it.
Elkins45
Member
A comment after the fact: wonder if someone could rent a box at a UPS Store, Mailboxes Inc. or similar, then just stick a box in their own mailbox and leave it there?
I think after 9/11 that it's pretty hard to find a public storage locker anymore. How about getting a trial membership at a gym near the border--do they have lockers for their customers to use?
I think after 9/11 that it's pretty hard to find a public storage locker anymore. How about getting a trial membership at a gym near the border--do they have lockers for their customers to use?
Sunray
Member
"...spent pistol cartridge is illegal in Canada..." Nope, but it'll make Her Majesty's Canadian Customs types suspicious. Most of 'em are part time house wives who don't know a real firearm from a water pistol. Even though their union demanded they be armed. Last I heard most of 'em failed the training course. (There's one of those house wives on the U.S. side at Port Huron too. Thought a couple hundred rounds per firearm was a lot for 2 guys going to Second Chance Combat Shoot for a week.) Give 'em an excuse to search your vehicle. No requirement for them to put things back the way they found 'em either.
"...a very emphatic "NO GUNS IN CANADA. NO EXCEPTIONS"..." It's no firearms without our licence. No CCW at all. No exceptions. Works the same way for a Canadian going the other way too. No firearms without the ATF Form 6 at the very least. Have the right paperwork as required by either side and crossing the border is no big deal. Don't even think about trying to BS your way going either way though. Annoys everybody and Customs types on both sides take their job really seriously. Even though ours are mostly interested in collecting taxes and fees. Get caught and you'll be arrested and escorted to Homeland Security who will likely charge you with illegally exporting.
"...a very emphatic "NO GUNS IN CANADA. NO EXCEPTIONS"..." It's no firearms without our licence. No CCW at all. No exceptions. Works the same way for a Canadian going the other way too. No firearms without the ATF Form 6 at the very least. Have the right paperwork as required by either side and crossing the border is no big deal. Don't even think about trying to BS your way going either way though. Annoys everybody and Customs types on both sides take their job really seriously. Even though ours are mostly interested in collecting taxes and fees. Get caught and you'll be arrested and escorted to Homeland Security who will likely charge you with illegally exporting.
dogtown tom
Member
I wouldn't......the back of your "box" is open and not immune from the prying eyes of the UPS Store employees.
HankR
Member
Avoid giving my money to a country (or state) that doesn't respect and honor my God given rights? Yeah, I'd be ok with that. Beautiful, sure, but Banf didn't look all that much different than Montana last time I checked. I remember some very attractive girls back in college, but the risks weren't worth the perceived pleasure.
Hanzo581
Member
Sorry your "god given rights" are irrelevant on a global scale.
deadin
Member
But you were there on TDY orders. That puts you in a different category than a normal non-resident.
You really need to rethink your attitude.
It is not the responsibility of U.S. Customs to stop you on your way out of the country and check you and your vehicle to ensure it complies with the laws of the country you are going to - that is your responsibility - and you admit you had not done so.
When the Canadians told you to turn around, you were already in their country and had illegally entered with a prohibited weapon. At that point you were subject to arrest and forfeiture of the weapon. They were quite nice to allow you to turn around and remedy the situation.
When you returned to the U.S., you had already illegally exported a handgun to Canada and were now illegally attempting to re-import it. Congratulations, you're a self-confessed felon and should never be able legally own a gun again. The U.S. Customs detained you while they verified your story and gave you an object lesson in the consequences of assuming that your constitutional rights apply everywhere else in the world - a lesson the conclusion of your post shows you learned.
So, you committed a felony in Canada and walked away from it. You committed another felony upon re-entering the United States and apart from some minor inconvenience walked away from it as well. You need to get the chip off your shoulder and realize you weren't harassed by Customs; everything that happened you brought upon yourself and Customs was extraordinarily tolerant; the fact you were not charged with the crimes you committed is proof of that.
Creaky_Old_Cop
member
Amen to that. That's why, when I had to go to NYC, I would fly into Philly, rent a car and drive into NYC. HR218 is great, but NY is a giant pain in the boxer-briefs even for LEOs on business.
BUT...for the OP's question, some of those MAILBOX places have lockers you can rent and then there are bus stations with lockers (though I am not totally convinced of their overall security). MAYBE you can try to find a THR member in the border town or close to it who would babysit your pistol?
Sam1911
Moderator Emeritus
As Dogtown Tom pointed out, the gunsmithing option is the only plan that works because a gunsmith can transfer a firearm back to its owner regardless of where that owner resides.
A pawn shop can't transfer your handgun back to you if you are not a resident of that state. They'll have to send it to an FFL in your home state who can transfer it to you.
(Active military on orders is different in what constitutes a state of residence.)
That would be involving both of you in federal felonies. Let's not go there!
Berger.Fan222
Member
Correct me if I'm wrong, but what about dropping it a gun shot to sell it on consignment at a price that it is unlikely to sell? If it sells, great, more cash than expected. If it doesn't sell, pick it up and go on your way. Shops sometimes have a small fee to take stuff off of consignment, but is this a problem from a transfer legality viewpoint?
- You're diddling the gun shop by lying about your intentions. You're not really interested in selling the gun. You're just trying to get the shop to hold it for you.
- A well run shop will not accept a gun for consignment at an unreasonable price. The shop owner, if he's wise, will agree with the consignor as to price; and it will be a reasonable price. Why would a business person waste his time trying to sell something at a price at which it's basically unsaleable.
- When returning to the consignor a gun that didn't sell, federal law requires that the FFL follow the same procedures as a sale (i. e., 4473 and background check). So the fFL would be precluded from delivering a handgun to someone who isn't a resident of the State.
Sam1911
Moderator Emeritus
That may work, legally.
Here's what the law says:
So, the law appears to say that if an FFL (which would include a gunsmith) takes in a gun from someone (a reason isn't specified here) they can return it to that person, period.
Now I'm thinking I don't quite have all the pertinent info. Can someone point to "the rest of the story" that defines under what circumstances this is operable?
Sam1911
Moderator Emeritus
E.g.:
1) Can a gunsmith in Idaho accept for "repair" or "cleaning" a handgun from a person who's a resident of Florida, and then return it to that resident of Florida, in person, a week or two later?
2) Can an average gun dealer in Idaho take in a handgun from that FL resident simply for storage, log it in their book as they should, and then return it to that FL resident, in person a week or two later?
There should be abundantly clear answers to these questions. It shouldn't be very mysterious. It isn't an uncommon situation.
1) Can a gunsmith in Idaho accept for "repair" or "cleaning" a handgun from a person who's a resident of Florida, and then return it to that resident of Florida, in person, a week or two later?
2) Can an average gun dealer in Idaho take in a handgun from that FL resident simply for storage, log it in their book as they should, and then return it to that FL resident, in person a week or two later?
There should be abundantly clear answers to these questions. It shouldn't be very mysterious. It isn't an uncommon situation.
SwaneeSR
Member
We completed a family trip to UP Michigan and crossed into Ontario at Sault Ste Marie. Left the firearms at home. Double checked my truck for all empty brass and shotshell stuff.
Border crossings were easy. People kind and friendly on both sides of the border. It did bother me leaving my carry pistol at home. However it was the right decision IMO.
Swanee
Border crossings were easy. People kind and friendly on both sides of the border. It did bother me leaving my carry pistol at home. However it was the right decision IMO.
Swanee
See 27 CFR 124(a)(emphasis added):
That is a regulation of the ATF. It may appear to conflict with 18 USC 922(a)(2), but it really doesn't.
Essentially 18 USC 922(a)(2) prohibits and FFL from shipping a gun to anyone other than another license, except that it does allow the FFL to return a gun to a non-licensee from whom it was received. It says nothing about whether or not a 4473 or NICS check is required because it was enacted prior to the imposition of the 4473 and NICS check by the Brady Bill. The 4473 and NICS check requirements are set out in 18 USC 922(t), which includes no exception for returning a gun.
So the exception to the 4473 and NICS check was made by ATF regulation, and the only exception in the regulation to the 4473 and NICS requirement is the return of a gun delivered to a licensee for repair of customization.
- Status
