IS this an AD/ND, or what?

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I was out shooting at the range. January in MI tends to be cold, so I had gloves on. Big, thick gloves. Anyway, I had the gun on the target, and put my finger in the trigger guard, and must have shoved too much glove in, because the gun fired. The shot hit the paper, way low and to the right, but I did take gloves off after that.

Your thoughts?
 
I'd say AD, you were going to shoot anyway, it pointed in a safe direction, and wasn't real close to being a disaster. ND implies that someone almost got shot, but either way it wasn't good.
 
ND. If you do not intend to fire a weapon, and you discharge the weapon absent any mechanical failure, you have had a ND. In this case, your negligence
involved handling a loaded weapon with gear you had not used to practice with an unloaded weapon. Whenever we introduce new gear to our firearms, we should handle the firearm with the new gear while the firearm is unloaded to safely resolve any issues of incompatibility. This is true for holsters, slings, sights, gloves, lights, bipods, etc.

Fortunately, you were following the safety rules and your ND resulted in no injuries. Good job!

Matthew
 
I am of the opinion that when people get hurt then an A/D it is not - it is by default negiligent... safety was (usually) inexcusably compromized.

In your case - safe shooting conditions and attention to safety it is accidental - or shall we say unintentional. :p
 
I have to agree with Matthew Courtney, if an unintentional discharge is the fault of the firearm, it is accidental or if it is the fault of the shooter, it is negligent.
 
I consider "accidental discharge" to be caused by a mechanical failure of the gun or ammo that resulted in it firing unexpectedly. Anything resulting for improper operation by the shooter I call "negligent discharge." This was operator error, and hence an ND in my opinion. Whether anyone is hurt or not is a different question relating to how many of the safety rules were broken.
 
I would have to say Accidental Discharge. Glad it happened the way it did.

A few years ago I shot a baby glock 9mm for the first time. On one of the shots, I let off two rounds. I guess I wasn't used to the trigger. What is that called?
 
Absolutely no negligence involved here. The basic rules were all observed, and we are reminded why those rules are in place. Don't put your finger over the trigger until you're ready to fire. This is one reason why--because your glove can cause premature discharge.

Consider this. Anytime you're firing a new firearm, you are not aware of the exact amount of pressure needed to fire it. So to have it fire before you expect it should be expected. In this case it was, so no problem.
 
OK, thanks for the replies. Yes, it was my fault, and yes, it was a gun I hadn't fired before. It worked OK for the first two shots, but the third just got jammed in there a little too hard. Just for clarification, too, I was putting my finger in there to pull the trigger, it wasn't being shoved in at the wrong time.

Anyway, I'm just glad that my first screwup didn't involve anything bad happening. Heck, the other people there didn't even know I didn't mean to shoot.
 
It's an AD by my thinking, and I'm sure you've learned a lesson from it. You had the muzzle in a safe direction so nothing bad came of it, other than perhaps giving yourself a start....
 
IMO:

As noted by others, if it is not a mechanical (or electronic for a very small number of firearms) failure of the platform or a problem with the ammo that occurs without the shooter operating the trigger or the trigger depressed by something other than the shooter unintentionally, it is an AD. If the trigger is actuated by the handler (finger in trigger guard) when not intended to irrespective of where the gun is pointed, it is a ND.

However, I think in this case, I think it would probably be more considerate to call it an UD (unintentional discharge) as you had not known beforehand that the thickness of the glove could set the gun off (it's the first time I've ever heard of an incident like this) and the gun was pointed in a safe direction.
 
To me it's just poor trigger control, or a bad shot.

You had your firearm pointed at a target you were willing to destroy.
You knew what lay behind it (it's a firing range after all!)
You didn't place your finger on the trigger until you were ready to fire.

All shots are SUPPOSED to be a surprise, right?

Accidental means the gun went off when it never should have -- a mechanical failure.

Negligent means it went off in an unsafe manner.

Does it warrant taking note of what happened? Certainly, and I'm glad you posted it. It is about 12 degrees right now "down south" in the LP and it certainly reminds me to be extra special careful when I've got gloves on that I might discharge a bit sooner than I'd otherwise expect. However that should ONLY affect my shot placement and not safety one bit at all!

If I've got my rifle reasonably on target (safe) and I put my finger in the trigger guard I expect it to go off at ANY time. I might sneeze, jerk, anything could happen.

Providing that consious and responsible thought went into putting your finger into the trigger guard (which it seems it did) then no, it's not AD or an ND.

Take note, but don't beat yourself up over this one, IMHO.
 
Yes, P95Carry, it was ''Gross Incompetence" I was pretty new to guns, especially pistols. It was the first time I had shot a Glock. We've all got to start somewhere.
 
I would call it an UD but definitely not an AD. For example a "slam fire" would be an AD but in this case it was something that you fully controlled. You now know you can't use those gloves because of the danger involved. Your on the learning curve and luckily no one got hurt. If you do it again, now knowning better, it becomes an ND. ND's come from the user having some form of pre-knowledge/training/experience that what they were doing was incorrect and unsafe. If you had a thought that the glove might interfere and cause an unsafe situation - then it was a ND from the get go.
 
I consider "accidental discharge" to be caused by a mechanical failure of the gun or ammo that resulted in it firing unexpectedly. Anything resulting for improper operation by the shooter I call "negligent discharge." This was operator error, and hence an ND in my opinion. Whether anyone is hurt or not is a different question relating to how many of the safety rules were broken.
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Ditto.

The gun went off when you did not expect it to, as a direct result of your action, not due to mechanical malfunction.

That's a negligent discharge, regardless of which way the muzzle was pointed.
 
I agree with GigaBuist, it is nothing. You have the gun pointed at the target and it went off. I shot a highpower match once where I flinched and jerked right before I pulled the trigger. I hit the berm and scrwed up my getting over 400. I didn't sit around for days and worry about was it an ND or a AD. I just missed because I didn't have good trigger control. It is that simple.

Sometimes when I shoot my M1A from the bench I do a double tap because of the way I hold the gun. Again, I could sit around and debate it all day long on a discussion board on whether it is a AD or ND or I could just realize sometimes when shooting from the bench I hold the rifle losely enough that the recoil comes back again and I pull the trigger again and two rounds go out instead of one. No big deal. I am in a safe position with my background and target sure and known. Why sweat it?

I guess if you want to in order to scare yourself into being safer, I can't fault you for that. Whatever you have to do. I wouldn't worry about it.
 
it wasn't negligence.

When I used to shoot precision smallbore I would, from time to time accidentally shoot a little earlier than I wanted to. Never in a dangerous fashion, and always when I was mostly on target and starting to squeeze. That, like your discharge, was accidental, no negligent.

If you shot your weapon accidentally while drawing it, say, in your car so you could go into a bank, then that would be negligent as you would have put your finger in the trigger guard before you were ready to shoot.
 
My thought on AD/ND, may need to be fixed.

Accidental Discharge:

A round is fired by the shooters action without intention to do so and:
1) Is fired at a proper time from a proper place to shoot.
2) Travels only in a safe area at a proper time to shoot.
3) Impacts a safe target/berm at a proper time to shoot.

Negligent Discharge:

When one or more (1-3) of the above are not met.

You met all three of the above when you fired, I vote AD.

Respectfully,

jdkelly
 
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When I used to shoot precision smallbore I would, from time to time accidentally shoot a little earlier than I wanted to. Never in a dangerous fashion, and always when I was mostly on target and starting to squeeze. That, like your discharge, was accidental, no negligent.

If you shot your weapon accidentally while drawing it, say, in your car so you could go into a bank, then that would be negligent as you would have put your finger in the trigger guard before you were ready to shoot.
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But ... he hadn't really started to squeeze, as I understood the narrative. That's why I go more toward the ND classification.
 
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