Is this AR worth it? Daniel Defense

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$2k is a bit much for your first AR15 rifle, unless you just have the bankroll and want a very nice AR as your first. DD makes nice rifles for sure, but are you comfortable spending $2k on one rifle purchase? If you are, go for it.

I know a guy who bought a Noveske rifle as his first AR15 and called it a day; then again he was pretty well off financially and didn't care about other quality rifles from Colt, BCM, DD, etc. I would drop $2k + on a rifle if I had lots of money to burn, but I don't.

Even at $1400-1500 you can get a Daniel Defense M4 and use the $400 you save on a good optic from Aimpoint (i.e. PRO) or more ammo/mags.

Look here
http://www.impactguns.com/ar15-rifles.aspx?Manufacturer=Daniel+Defense

Plenty of other factory built rifles from DD like the M4V1 or V5.
 
It's your money, your choice and a great rifle.
You'll be fine, buy what you like and if that's the rifle you want, enjoy it.
I own a DD M4-V7 and I like it. Solid rifle and it's served me well.

I'm sure there are those here who would walk up to your new Ferrari and tell you, "My twenty year old Yugo gets me to work and I didn't waste so much money."
You get what you pay for.
 
My twenty year old Yugo gets me to work and I didn't waste so much money
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If you have a 20-year old Yugo, you've probably wasted lots of money over the years.
 
I'm sure there are those here who would walk up to your new Ferrari and tell you, "My twenty year old Yugo gets me to work and I didn't waste so much money."
You get what you pay for.
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That analogy would be more accurate if the cheaper rifles he was looking at had 20 years of wear and tear on them already, or had a single, significant mechanical difference between them.

If a rifle for several hundred dollars less has; equal quality barrel, equal quality BCG, equal effective range, equal FCG, and free float, then it's not a Ferrari vs Yugo difference.
 
Cheaper rifles are for the most part cheaper for a reason. You get what you pay for and D.D. is a high quality AR. Quality isn't cheap.
 
Daniel Defense makes great ARs, but I would have trouble justifying a Daniel Defense AR for $2K when you can get a nice ARs for $800-1000 (Colt, RRA, Stag, S&W, etc.) and then outfit it with a good optic and whatever accessories you'd like and still be under the $2K mark.

As for the .223 Remington and .300 Blackout, the .223 is cheaper, more available, faster, flatter shooting, and more accurate. The .300 Blackout has more power, is a little less popular, and can't reach out as far. If you are planning to suppress your AR, go with the .300 Blackout as it can give sub 120DB readings when outfitted with the right ammo and suppressor. If you are planning to plink, shoot varmints or smaller game, or compete, go with .223. I think .223 is better for someone who is new to ARs simply because of ammo availability and it is a soft-shooting cartridge used in a variety of firearms.
 
If you're set on getting a DD rifle Primary Arms is running a sale right now. You can pick up a nice M4V11 for $1500 including an Aimpoint PRO.
 
The paper targets, steel gongs, or heaven forbid home intruder that you shoot is not going to tell the difference in the $1000-1300 spread between these rifles.

What WILL make the difference is training and trigger time. $1300 buys a lot of training, ammo, and trigger time.

This is hardware vs software problem, where hardware + software always trumps hardware alone.

For $2000 you can either have really cool hardware and no software or hardware plus software.
 
I see no compelling reason not to buy a high quality rifle for your first rifle! More money if often wasted when you start cheap and keep trading up. DD makes outstanding guns. It's usually a false dichotomy to suggest you can either get a good rifle or ammo and training; most of the time if you can afford an expensive rifle you can afford the stuff that goes with it.

There are better deals to be had on the rifle, though. Unless it simply must be configured in that exact way why not check at some dealers? Bud's has good prices on DD and even my LGS has some pretty fair deals on them from time to time.
 
More money if often wasted when you start cheap and keep trading up
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A high quality rifle, based on service life of 10k+ rounds, along with enough accuracy to take advantage of a medium powered optic, costs about $600.

Look at any for sale board on a gun forum. People trading up has very little to do with maxing out a firearms capabilities and very much with wanting to try something new and different.
 
I see no compelling reason not to buy a high quality rifle for your first rifle! More money if often wasted when you start cheap and keep trading up. DD makes outstanding guns. It's usually a false dichotomy to suggest you can either get a good rifle or ammo and training; most of the time if you can afford an expensive rifle you can afford the stuff that goes with it.
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$2000 represents a significant outlay of cash for the average person, earning $40,000 annually, particularly when it's an undeniable fact that about $1300 of that is totally unnecessary for the typical use. Most people aren't generating revenue from the performance of the weapon, nor competing in matches. Most people buy one, shoot it occasionally. Few people are going to push the weapon to max performance, or wear it out.

When taking all that into consideration, this really is just a Honda versus BMW comparison. The Honda will do just fine and the savings will pay for the extras like insurance, gas, and maintenance with the savings. Same comparison.

If you can afford the BMW, fine. But it does little that the Honda can't do.
 
Most of my guns were purchased simply because I wanted them. As long as you're paying your bills on time that's reason enough! I was seriously considering a DD myself but I chickened/cheaped out and ordered a CORE 15 instead. But handling the DD it's a very nice rifle. I can certainly see why a person would pay a bit more for that level of fit and finish. They're very nice guns!

I suppose this is a lot like the old Rolex vs Timex argument.;) Jerk that I am I will point out that my Timex keeps as good of time as a Rolex for a tiny fraction of the price. Maybe the Rolex is more durable but if my Timex breaks I could buy a new one ever week and still be saving money. But if I'm being honest I have to concede that it would be a pleasure to own wear something so beautiful and finely crafted, and that sense of satisfaction and pride of ownership has tangible value to the owner.

To me the nicest thing about ordering the DD (and this applies to any brand that's made to order) would be having it set up exactly as you want it right out of the box.

But as I've admitted, I'm basically a handgunner so I didn't want to sink that much into an AR. Funny though, I didn't bat an eye about dropping that on an HK carbine in .45 ACP!:eek:
 
I won't try to say to build your own; that's an option; a rather simple one;; complete upper, with a lower, parts kit, and a buttstock and tube.. Going slow, you should be done in 15 to 30 minutes. Youtube videos.

That said, I'd suggest that you look at various AR's and think about how you would use it. Would you be putting accessories on the quad rail- then get a model that has quad rails.Don't think about just upgrading it- think ahead and get it mostly the way you want it. Do you want a fixed front sight post or pop-up backup iron sights ? Do you want a forward assist? (better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it ).. Do you want a dust cover ? (again.... ).. A lot of times, it's the small upgrades that cost a chunk of change; adding good BUIS to a rifle can be in the neighborhood of $100 ~150. Adding a free float quad rail- $$$.. Best to get the rifle like you want it; just get a decent brand to begin with. Some upgrades- are often better separate though- like optics..
16 inch barrel or longer ? pencil thin or thicker robust barrel for throwing a lot of lead down range ? Warranty ? then look at the decent to better manufacturers ... S&W, Ruger, Windham Arms, Colt, Stag, ... Pick one that meets your unique wants.

I personally would not pay over $800 now for a generic AR.. Special purpose- maybe 1200 to 1400.. (I'd build it first ). Would not go to the cheapest either; Something is always missing on the ultra-cheap models.. Another instance would I pay more than $800; another one would be if I wanted a piston driven system.. for most people, the typical direct impingement system is fine. It was designed for it.

I've seen newb's buy guns from manufacturers that I personally would never have; however, most were pleasant surprises. Still, I know my buying habits, and what I like and dislike. Sometimes, it's better, if you don't know, just to go out and buy something that might fit the bill, use it for a while, and learn what your next rifle should have. Some upgrades can be done cheaply enough; some are just not worthwhile on the cheapest of rifles.. Nothing wrong with having a beater that is not fully dressed out. Call it a spare when you are done.
 
I can't help but wonder if many of those in the "just get an $800 PSA" camp are only validating their own choice? To the OP, if you've got the money, buy what you want. Jeez, the last thing I would do is ask for buying advice from the crowd around here. I'm reminded of a similar thread where a guy had several run of the mill rifles, but always wanted a really nice bolt gun and was thinking about buying a Sako Gray Wolf with a nice Leupold scope for it. Oh, the choruses of "Just get a Savage" or a Vortex.

Daniel Defense builds some very nice rifles. I know several people that have them and love them. I've shot a bunch of DD rifles and really like their .300 AAC ISR. I've also shot one of their full auto Mk18 suppressed. Personally though, I wouldn't buy a DD for $2k, I'd get an LMT for that kind of money instead.
 
I can't help but wonder if many of those in the "just get an $800 PSA" camp are only validating their own choice? To the OP, if you've got the money, buy what you want. Jeez, the last thing I would do is ask for buying advice from the crowd around here. I'm reminded of a similar thread where a guy had several run of the mill rifles, but always wanted a really nice bolt gun and was thinking about buying a Sako Gray Wolf with a nice Leupold scope for it. Oh, the choruses of "Just get a Savage" or a Vortex.

Daniel Defense builds some very nice rifles. I know several people that have them and love them.
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The choice of rifles is fine, the price, well; shopping around he could do better on the price.
The idea that your average home builder can turn out a better rifle with discount parts in his garage is for the most part, just wrong.
 
The choice of rifles is fine, the price, well; shopping around he could do better on the price. The idea that your average home builder can turn out a better rifle with discount parts in his garage is for the most part, just wrong.
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Don't confuse better and adequate.

I'd agree that most here tend to assume everyone has a basic knowledge of tools and how to use them. I know guys that have no idea how to use a screwdriver or pliers.
 
HexHead said:
I can't help but wonder if many of those in the "just get an $800 PSA" camp are only validating their own choice?
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I mentioned earlier that I had a DD rifle. It's the V7LW and it is my favorite AR. I have several other makes including PSA and shoot them regularly. Haven't had a bad AR yet regardless of the name stamped on the lower.

I'm in the camp that suggests a basic AR at a lesser price. There is absolutely nothing wrong with a basic AR to begin with. Upgrades, if needed, are easy to do and can be tailored to the user. Plus, I would be willing to bet that OP would get the same results with a PSA as he would the DD.

You could buy two ARs for the 2k mentioned and still have money left over for ammo. Of course, later on a DD would be nice to have once you realize they are not magic wands.
 
I can't help but wonder if many of those in the "just get an $800 PSA" camp are only validating their own choice? To the OP, if you've got the money, buy what you want. Jeez, the last thing I would do is ask for buying advice from the crowd around here. I'm reminded of a similar thread where a guy had several run of the mill rifles, but always wanted a really nice bolt gun and was thinking about buying a Sako Gray Wolf with a nice Leupold scope for it. Oh, the choruses of "Just get a Savage" or a Vortex.
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You're not supporting your opinion with what, if anything, the DD will do better, than a PSA.

The good thing about "around here" is that people base their advice on actual experiences, instead of just rattling of one liners or quoting specs. I've got 14k rounds between my PSA Mid-length and my competition gun I built with mostly PSA parts. If the OP wants an AR that will shoot 1.5moa, runs hot and dirty, and has a barrel and BCG that will last as long as anything DD makes, then it only cost about $800.
 
I can't help but wonder if many of those in the "just get an $800 PSA" camp are only validating their own choice? To the OP, if you've got the money, buy what you want. Jeez, the last thing I would do is ask for buying advice from the crowd around here. I'm reminded of a similar thread where a guy had several run of the mill rifles, but always wanted a really nice bolt gun and was thinking about buying a Sako Gray Wolf with a nice Leupold scope for it. Oh, the choruses of "Just get a Savage" or a Vortex.
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And the reverse is true for people justifying lavish expenses.

Turns out those garbage Savages everyone poo-pooed a couple decades ago actually have amazing design and inherent accuracy, and tend to outshoot guns 3 times their price.

Much of the wisdom in product purchases is not being conned into buying what you don't or won't ever need - the 'extras' that most people never ever utilize.
This is like the car salesman pushing a buyer to the next more lavish model that is really unnecessary.

Here the 'extras' are the rifle at 2-3 times the cost of one that would fill the need of nearly any job just fine.

I will readily admit that I own a handful of more expensive models of various guns. And they do nothing that the less expensive counterparts can do just as well.

The Timex vs. Rolex is a great analogy. A reliable time-piece is cheap. The extras are the name and design fashion. If you like throwing away money on fashion, then there's clearly a market for that.
 
I know a guy with a Les Baer.
He only shoots it at an indoor 25 yard range.

It might shoot great, but you can't tell by his targets.

He could do as well with a PSA or Smith M&P Sport.
 
I'm not sure if the OP is even still here for the debate.
To say, "I can order X parts and build a quality rifle for X amount of dollars is rather a moot point and to some degree the wrong way to approach this.
I don't think anyone here can say exactly what his skill level with tools would be, or for that matter what tools he has available. This being the case lets get back to off the shelf rifles and his choice.
First the DD rifle he selected is a fine gun. Although at the price he quoted, he could probably shop a bit harder and find it much cheaper.
If I were to direct him away from such a choice I would have to get some more information from him.
The better alternative would be for him to actually be able to compare a number of different AR's at a range and with different optics. I find that rather unlikely unless he has a wide circle of friends who enjoy shooting the AR platform. I honestly don't see him having that happen, being able to shoot 5 to 8 different brands of AR's in one setting is unlikely for comparison, though it would be a dream of mine.
I would then have to fall back on;
It's a fine AR, it comes from a quality company and obviously if he brought up the DD rifle it is within his budget. The question then becomes, where can I find the best price?
Might he be better served going down to the local big box store and picking up a Colt 6920 for $1000 and spending the rest on optics and ammo? Perhaps, but again, it's his money and choice.
If he goes home with his DD rifle that he purchased at the best available price, I certainly couldn't be critical of his choice. Fine rifle and it will most likely serve him well the rest of his life.
 
Fine rifle and it will most likely serve him well the rest of his life
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Therein lies the rationale I use that tends to make me spend more $ to avoid buyers remorse-if I'm going to have said rifle, scope, etc. for 30+ years (hopefully!), then why should one be concerned over an extra $300-$400?

Even $1,000?.....assuming it was what I wanted and it was $1,000 more, that's $33/year more to have what I WANTED and would avoid the dreaded buyers remorse...Sign me up!
 
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