It's settled... Lever Actions must have side-gate loading port.
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ThomasT
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That is the first time in my life I ever heard of any state that required a lever action with a plugged magazine. Frankly I'm calling B.S. on this one. The need to plug a mag tube is for a shotgun when hunting migratory birds. Its a federal law and not a state law. Plugging the mag tube on a lever with a side gate would force you to have to disassemble the rifle to remove the plug later. A skill that would be beyond what some shooters might be able to do. And you wouldn't be able to just slide a plug through the gate. You would have to take the rifle apart to install a plug and then reassemble the tube. Pure crap.
OP
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mcb
Member
But not as good as Marlin, Winchester, and now Henry with their side-gate loading tube-feeds. Because good and proper lever actions have side gate loading.
Ruger has saddled up and is in the stirrups, long live the lever gun, long live Marlin (as a brand and a rifle). Will Ruger Marlins be anymore real Marlins than were Remington Marlins, IMO, no, as I have been repeatedly told despite my preference often for the later, only JM Marlins are real. But there is a reckoning coming with that cowboy, it is called Marlin, and Henry should gird their loins for battle.
Really, competition is good, I hope and certainly believe there is room for two lever gun companies to exist, it can only be a good thing for Henry to prosper.
Really, competition is good, I hope and certainly believe there is room for two lever gun companies to exist, it can only be a good thing for Henry to prosper.
ThomasT
Member
Checking the Alabama game laws where the OP lives shows that hunters are limited to 10 rounds in a hunting rifle. No plugged lever action tubes required.
entropy
Member
Well, since like the 1895 WInchester best, (as well as the aforementioned 1899 Savage) I partially disagree with you. Side loading gates, excluding the two versions on various Krag rifles, limit the type of bullet shape that must be used, though Leverelovution bullets have changed that somewhat. I still dislike them, as well as some FP shapes for tube guns.
Winchester had almost half a century on Arthur Savage's turn of the century design, and in that time cemented a legendary (and very puffed up) role in the Westward expansion. That was all done by 1900, so Savage concentrated on crafting a lever action hunting rifle that could fire the 'newfangled' spitzer bullets. Browning later concentrated on bringing back the 1895 among the various re-issues of other Win. levers, and introducing a lever action capable of modern Magnum cartridges.
Apparently a lot of people agree with you mcb, because the three major rifles (Win. 1895, Savage '99, and BLR) that don't have tube mags don't have near the following that tube mag levers have. I certainly don't hate side-gate tube mag levers, I've owned both Marlin and Winchester types, and there's nothing wrong with them.
lysanderxiii
Member
Personal opinion, but I think the better statement should be "All tube magazined rifles should have gate loading."
The Spencer and Lebel certainly would have been the better for it. But, I kind'a like the Winchester 1895 and Savage 1899 the way they are.
The Spencer and Lebel certainly would have been the better for it. But, I kind'a like the Winchester 1895 and Savage 1899 the way they are.
OP
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mcb
Member
I have not always lived in Alabama (I currently do the majority my hunting in Tennessee by the way, no magazine limit at all) but it is reasonable for you to doubt my story, but it is true none-the-less.
I grew up in Ohio that until 2014 was a slug (and handgun and muzzleloader) only state for modern deer gun season. It was a state hunting regulation that, like Federal regulation that requires water fowl hunters to plug their shotguns to 2+1, we also had to plug our shotguns to 2+1 during deer and turkey hunting. (Even as of 2014 when rifles using straight-wall cartridge are legal in Ohio, capacity is still limited to 2+1, but a physical magazine plug/block is no longer required. It is an honor system)
I had always wanted to hunt deer with a lever-action but being in a slug only state that was not easy to do since there are very few lever action shotguns on the market. That was until 2002 as a gift to myself for finishing grad school I bought myself the relatively newly released Winchester 9410, a lever action 410 shotgun.
My 2002 Winchester 9410 with the factory plug (18.5 inches long) and three Brenneke 2.5-inch slugs
A close up of the muzzle end of the plug. To install it requires only that you remove the single screw retaining the end of the magazine tube. The plug goes into the magazine spring. The flared end ensures that the plug stays at the muzzle end of the magazine to reduce the chance it causes a feeding issue.
I had bought the gun primarily as a bunny/squirrel gun but it was in the back of my head to maybe make a slug gun of it and playing with slugs showed the gun to be very accurate with slugs despite the smooth bore. It was shooting 2-inch 5-shot groups at 50 yards which compared to my 12 gauge slug-gun was pretty good and the recoil was non-existent.
A quick look at Ohio hunting regulations showed that 410 slugs were legal for deer and thus my desire to hunt deer with a lever-gun was finally going to be realized.
So opening day, 2003, for the afternoon hunt I was slowly stalking a dense crab apple thicket with my "mighty" Winchester 9410, with is glorious lever, and quintessential side-gate loaded full length magazine tube (with that silly long plug) when I cross an old buck chasing a doe. This was the first time I had ever had a buck in my sights. Buck fever no doubt set in and I rushed the first shot that ended up being a hit but behind the diaphragm. In full buck fever I snapped off the other two shot from the magazine very quickly, missing with both shots as he was moving. I dropped a fourth round direct into chamber and snapped that one at him in a rush, missing again. At that point the buck fever was turning into panic and anger. But I calmed myself and deliberately loaded the 9410 through the loading gate focusing on calming myself while loading and cycling a round into the chamber. Then at a fair distance (~70 yards) for that that little slug, I took careful aim with my fifth shot (now having calm myself and confident with spare rounds also in the magazine) and put it through both lungs and the blood vessels just above the heart. He fell at that last shot.
Yours truly, his mighty Winchester 9410, and his very first buck.
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ThomasT
Member
OK MCB my apologies. I looked at Alabama since thats where you are listed on your profile. Good thing you guys had an honor system and you apparently used it. I have sat in many dove fields and heard guys rack off 5 shots as fast as they could pull the trigger. There have been several times I had wished a game warden was around. I rarely ever load more than two rounds in my Winchester pump. If I don't get the dove by the second shot the third shot is always just a farewell salute.
By the way thats great shooting with a smooth bore 410. I would never have thought that was possible. And I love my 410s. I reload for them and make a 3 ball load using .395 balls. I even bought a Lee mold just to cast balls for the .410.
I have an area near me called the LBJ National Grasslands named after the President. It used to be that you could hunt with anything. Now its BP rifles or shotguns. I wish they wou'ld at least allow us to use straight wall rounds to hunt there. I would use my Marlins in 357 or 44 mag and be happy as a Lark. And there are some really big bucks around that area.
By the way thats great shooting with a smooth bore 410. I would never have thought that was possible. And I love my 410s. I reload for them and make a 3 ball load using .395 balls. I even bought a Lee mold just to cast balls for the .410.
I have an area near me called the LBJ National Grasslands named after the President. It used to be that you could hunt with anything. Now its BP rifles or shotguns. I wish they wou'ld at least allow us to use straight wall rounds to hunt there. I would use my Marlins in 357 or 44 mag and be happy as a Lark. And there are some really big bucks around that area.
I agree but it does not mean I'm comfortable with the process. I have three side loading gate lever action rifles and I unload them as best as I can without chambering a round. But it always feels a bit klugie to get each round out of the gun without chambering it.
But, hey, ever since I got my pilot license about 35 years ago, I'm uncomfortable letting my car's fuel tank get below half full.
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FFGColorado
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Just think how great the market for used, tube loading Henrys will be. My son is already saving for a BigBoy, side loading and will sell his tube loading one...
OP
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mcb
Member
That lever was just put on the for I like to spin my revolver crowd.
Otherwise pumps would be considered the better option.
I am always intrigued by how prolific pump actions are among shotgun makers and yet how few pump action center-fire rifles there are. And even fewer pump action rifles with side or bottom gate loading into tubular magazines.
CraigC
Sixgun Nut
I'm going to be the odd man out, because I never understood all the uproar over Henry's lack of a loading gate. I actually like the front loading of my Big Boy Steel .357. It's only a disadvantage when using a suppressor.
I realize some may be uncomfortable with the idea of loading near the muzzle or unloading a tube-fed levergun but these rifles have been around for +150yrs and I've never heard of a negligent discharge while loading/unloading. Again, not a big deal if the rifle is pointed in a safe direction and your finger is off the trigger.
Now that I'm over my Henryphobia, it's rare I turn my nose up at any of them.
I realize some may be uncomfortable with the idea of loading near the muzzle or unloading a tube-fed levergun but these rifles have been around for +150yrs and I've never heard of a negligent discharge while loading/unloading. Again, not a big deal if the rifle is pointed in a safe direction and your finger is off the trigger.
Now that I'm over my Henryphobia, it's rare I turn my nose up at any of them.
entropy
Member
Pump action rifles were made in the smaller calibers the Winchester levers were, the Colt lightning being the prime example, but as Bfh_auto said, it is more difficult to make an accurate pump rifle. Remington made more powerful ones, with the 14 and 141, but neither was known for stellar accuracy, and they were relegated to the woods of the Eastern and Midwestern states, where they still have a cult following. When I grew up in MN in the 70's, a Remington 14 or 141 or two were de rigueur in a Minnesota deer camp. You were the shizzle if you had an Remington 760. With the Model 760, Remington was able to make a more accurate pump in longer range calibers, and it did become more successful than previous designs.
But I fear it is the last of a dying breed. Remington came out with it's Model 740 just 3 years after the 760, and the auto and it's variants are far more common than the 760 and it's versions.
MachIVshooter
Member
The caridges used in pump rifles prior to the 760 weren't long range numbers anyway, so bolt rifle accuracy wouldn't have been especially useful IMO. The 14 & 14-1/2 were the most potent, but the .25/.30/.32/.35 Rem are still .30-30 class cartridges. I have a nice 14 in .32 rem, and not difficult to nail soda cans with boring monotony at 120 yards with it with it using irons. I also more recently acquired a model 25 in .25-20. I haven't had an opportunity yet to see what it's accuracy potential is, but it's sure a fun little rifle!
The 14 is a bottom loading gate rifle, loads directly into the reciprocating tube. The 25 has a side gate with a door on the tube, which also reciprocates. The Pedersen designs have always intrigued and impressed me.
doubleh
Member
I own two side gate loading centerfire rifles and several tube loading lowly 22 rimfire rifles. It really does NOT make one bit of difference to me what side of this "officially correct" argument you fall on but to state my personal sentiments I wish my side loaders were tube loaders. I find the tube system quicker and easier to use and truthfully have never fired over two shots at an animal when hunting with the side gates which negates the "reload while hunting" thing in my case. If I don't have it down in two shots it's either gone or out of my shooting ability range.
Make your choice, what ever it is, and get out and enjoy shooting it. Don't waste time mandating what's "officially correct". We have plenty of politicians stuffing that sort of thing down our throats on too many subjects already.
Make your choice, what ever it is, and get out and enjoy shooting it. Don't waste time mandating what's "officially correct". We have plenty of politicians stuffing that sort of thing down our throats on too many subjects already.
John#2
Member
I was a lever virgin until this year. So I was a blank slate; no preconceived notions.
Got the Henry Model X in 44 mag which has side gate loading and tube feeding.
I have now decided that I would never own a lever without tube feeding. That’s baseline for me.
The side gate is required for home defense, agreed. But in levers for other purposes, I can live without side gate loading.
Tube feeding is easier, faster, and safer in my assessment.
Plus I saw pretty quickly that the receiver is stronger without that additional hole. Maybe not important for a pistol cartridge, but I imagine in 45-70 it’s something to consider.
Anyhow, carry on. These religious wars are humorous. I’m not sure if the traditionalists realize that the logical conclusion of their predilections would have resulted in all of us still shooting round balls in single-shot flintlocks.
Side note: The war now raging in my head is whether I like levers or bolts more. Never saw that coming!
Got the Henry Model X in 44 mag which has side gate loading and tube feeding.
I have now decided that I would never own a lever without tube feeding. That’s baseline for me.
The side gate is required for home defense, agreed. But in levers for other purposes, I can live without side gate loading.
Tube feeding is easier, faster, and safer in my assessment.
Plus I saw pretty quickly that the receiver is stronger without that additional hole. Maybe not important for a pistol cartridge, but I imagine in 45-70 it’s something to consider.
Anyhow, carry on. These religious wars are humorous. I’m not sure if the traditionalists realize that the logical conclusion of their predilections would have resulted in all of us still shooting round balls in single-shot flintlocks.
Side note: The war now raging in my head is whether I like levers or bolts more. Never saw that coming!
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ThomasT
Member
If topping off a loaded rifle like the Henry tube feed worries you all you have to do is just slightly pull down on the lever and crack open the action. Then the gun cannot and will not fire. Load the tube and then just pull the lever back up. All in perfect safety. Now wasn't that easy?
entropy
Member
My favorite lever has a box magazine and a charger guide right on the rifle. 5 rounds go right in.
Wish I had one.
Wish I had one.
Old Dog
Member
I've been intrigued by Henry rifles for a while. Only thing holding me back was the tube-feed system, since I grew up with Winchesters and Marlins. Henry rifles look good regardless, and I was probably gonna buy one in .22 (all my .22 long guns are semi-auto); this development only makes things even more interesting.
I'm a big Marlin fan (all mine are older, JM-marked). And iff Ruger keeps up the quality, I'll be looking to add one (or two) -- I still have nothing in .44 Magnum.
As far as I'm concerned, life is getting better all the time for lever-action aficionados. We got absolutely nothing to complain about (boy, I was looking at some of the Winchester Deluxe lever rifles in my local Cabelas the other day, and wow, they look and handle sweet too).
I'm a big Marlin fan (all mine are older, JM-marked). And iff Ruger keeps up the quality, I'll be looking to add one (or two) -- I still have nothing in .44 Magnum.
As far as I'm concerned, life is getting better all the time for lever-action aficionados. We got absolutely nothing to complain about (boy, I was looking at some of the Winchester Deluxe lever rifles in my local Cabelas the other day, and wow, they look and handle sweet too).
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