It's taken 10 years, but I've finally convinced the wife on home defense

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possom813

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I've been married 10 years and working nights for more than half of that.

My wife has never had an issue with guns, she's just not a shooter. The kids love going with me and especially dig the blackpowder rifles going off.

We were discussing it last night and she's finally decided she wants a self-defense gun she can keep closeby while I'm at work for things that go bump in the night.

She's always liked shooting the .22 rifles and pistols because they're not really loud and there's no kick. So she wants something with the same characteristics, with a high capacity and more power.

So she's pretty much decided on either a suppressed .223 or a suppressed .410(do they even make those)

She wants to take a few classes to get familiar with the ar15 platform and a few self-defense classes as well. Evidently, I'm not a very good teacher when it comes to 'splainin how leverage works and how she can take down 6'5" 350lbs guy crashing through the door.

She already has a Taurus PT22 that she likes a lot, but it only has a capacity of 7 or 8. She also has a 10/22 with a 50rd magazine, but the 50rd mag creates a ftf after around 10rds or so.

So for temporary relief, until we can find exactly what she wants, I'd like to find a quality, high capacity, magazine for the 10/22.

Does anyone have any recommendations of mag manufacturers that are great?

Any suggestions for other guns that would meet her expectations?

And finally, does anyone make a suppressor for a .410?
 
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Congratulations Possum! But why bother with a .22 pistol, rifle, or the shotty? Long guns are awkward in close quarters and .22's aren't effective enough.
If you are considering some kind of "hand rifle" like a Thompson's Contender in .223, aren't those usually a single shot?
A .38 Special revolver is a better choice and even with +P ammo, doesn't kick much more than a .22 pistol. It WILL however, have a larger flare of burning gunpowder from the muzzle than a .22. This can be lessened by getting a .38 with a longer barrel, say 4 inches. This would also give it better accuracy.
Also, revolvers are less likely to fail in a crisis situation than an automatic. Think about it.
 
.22's raining into somebodies face will do the trick.

Ruger now offers a 25 rd magazine. Tactical Innovations offers two 25 rd mags, one in metal. Black Dog Machine also offers some hicap mags for the 10-22

A suppressed .223 is quite expensive. It's cheaper to buy some high end stereo/amplifying electronic muffs. These would provide a hearing advantage while keeping things "quiet" for her.
 
Well, the Tactical Innovations 10/22 magazines are the best ever made. They're also expensive. .22 is not useless for home defense, but yeah rifles are unwieldy indoors and can give you a real disadvantage. (and something for the crook to grab onto)

a cheap .38 in the interim sounds like a good idea

I'm curious, what are you looking at in the longer run ? This seems like a decent application for a Five Seven, but the muzzle blast can be a bit much......

I bet she could easily train into a glock 17 or 19. They're pretty easy to handle after the first initial introduction. i've seen police 17 trade ins for 350 before on gunbroker and at scottsdale gun club (which takes orders), so keep your eye out

hopefully you guys have lots of guns for her to try out either between friends or at a renting range.
 
I was looking at a noise suppressing upper for my Ruger Mk II (it was my sole reason for buying a clone of my Ruger Standard) I dont remember the company but it was a single unit not a can type.
 
In the long run, really looking into a suppressed ar15 with 16" barrel or something like the judge.

For short term, looking at what we already own(including a snubby .38) She keeps the PT22 in her pocket around the house and yard, it's a little lighter and slimmer than the .38 and more rounds.

I'm going to take her to Dfw gun range in the upcoming weeks and a couple of other private ranges to let her shoot a variety and see what she's most comfortable with.
 
An AR-15 makes a fantastic self-defense weapon.

This 15 year old boy used one quite well.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j-q2zHIovOE

This is just a tad extreme, but what about thugs with body armor?
http://www.caller.com/news/2010/may/14/police-arrest-three-recover-guns-drugs/

Doesn't mean it can't happen to you.

A short barreled ar with a suppressor would be an even BETTER setup. Self-defense isn't just about the weapon. It's about the whole system. Which includes the weapon, ammo, etc. but also the person and the techniques they use. A properly trained person with an ar is much better than someone with a handgun that doesn't have any training at all.

My dad has a butler creek 30 round mag that has never had failure due to a mechanical failure. It doesn't like Remington bonus packs, but I haven't found a gun that will consistently go bang with them either. We've had the mag for over ten years and haven't done a thing to it. Drop some oil down it and wipe off the krud off the top and it's good to go. By far the most reliable mags for a 10/22 are the 10 rounders that come with the gun.
 
My wife has been the same way. I'm finally talking her in to a gun. She likes shooting the Heritage Rough Rider in .22wmr. Maybe you should consider one of the new Taurus 941 22mags. It holds 9 shots and can be fired SA or DA.

There is a lot more flash and noise than 22lr but not much more kick. Plus Speer and Hornady now make defensive rounds for the 22mag pistol. I still load either Dynapoints or Super X rounds. In my personal informal testing they tend to exhibit tumbling or yawing. Yet they will still go through four or five jugs of water after passing through cloth. No expansion is ever present, but twisting and tumbling helps.

My wife is interested in the Walther PK 380 though. So, who knows, there might be hope yet. I'm just letting her take it at her pace and discover what she likes.
 
Since you already have a Ruger 10/22 I would recommend getting a few Butler Creek Steel Lips 25 rnd mags. They are about $16 or so each at www.CDNNinvestments.com. Their shipping is around $6. I use them whenever possible when buying mags and they are great to deal with. Butler Creek makes good mags. Their 25 round mags are very good quality and I've used them for years.
Since this is going to be a home defense gun and your wife seems a bit recoil shy I would recommend a .357 or .38 Special with a 4" or 6" barrel. Load it with the wimpiest .38 Spl wadcutters that you can find for practice until she's comfortable with something a little more powerful. I take a lot of new shooters to the range and always start them off with a heavy 4" .357 Magnum loaded with .38 Spl wadcutters. The recoil isn't bad and I've never had anyone complain about them kicking too hard. It's easier to move them up to more powerful loads or even on to 9mm semi autos. I suggest finding a range with rental guns and trying this with a 4" or 6". .22lr is better than nothing but if you're buying another gun you can do better for a home defense gun than a .22lr.
 
She keeps the PT22 in her pocket around the house and yard, it's a little lighter and slimmer than the .38 and more rounds.
Click to expand...

I'd feel more comfortable with a 5-shot .38 special in my pocket than ANY .22lr pistol. I don't care how many rounds the .22 holds.
 
possom813 said:
Does anyone have any recommendations of mag manufacturers that are great?
Click to expand...

I’ve tried several versions of 10 22 high capacity magazines and none that I’ve tried have been completely reliable. The best of the bunch that I’ve used are the steel lips versions from Tactical Innovations or Butler Creek. Even still I don’t know that I’d want to trust one in a gunfight.

I’ve had the best luck with the Ruger factory mags; so I just bought a bunch of those. They’ re only 10 rounds, but they work.
 
possum813 said:
In the long run, really looking into a suppressed ar15 with 16" barrel or something like the judge.

For short term, looking at what we already own(including a snubby .38) She keeps the PT22 in her pocket around the house and yard, it's a little lighter and slimmer than the .38 and more rounds.

I'm going to take her to Dfw gun range in the upcoming weeks and a couple of other private ranges to let her shoot a variety and see what she's most comfortable with.
Click to expand...


Why a suppressed AR-15 for home defense?
If you actually have to use it for HD it will probably be confiscated, at least temporarily. You'll lose a gun that cost you at least $800-$1000 plus a suppressor.
And why a Judge? Buck shot from a .410 would do the trick, according to gel tests I've seen. But really, it's not any better than any other handgun round and birdshot rounds are not to be relied on for self-fefense. On top of that, I have a friend who manages a gun store who literally has sent almost every other Judge back for some kind of repair.
On the PT22, if it's reliable and she can shoot it well, I say load it with solids and use it until you get something better. Sure, a .38 would be better... unless she misses the target by several feet with it every time. In that case, you're better protected with several center-mass hits from a .22 than you are with a cylinder full of misses from a .38.
I have also had very good reliability out of my 10/22 with factory magazines. The only unreliable 10/22 I've ever seen was because of a bad extractor. I replaced it and the gun has been 100% with good ammo, 99% with cheap bulk pack for thousands of rounds. Even with just 10 rounds, I'd use it for defense if it's what I had. Again, if it's what she can shoot well, your choice is kind of made until her abilities advance.

And as you're working with her, get her into gun stores to handle some stuff and figure out what she likes.
 
She's always liked shooting the .22 rifles and pistols because they're not really loud and there's no kick. So she wants something with the same characteristics, with a high capacity and more power.

So she's pretty much decided on either a suppressed .223 or a suppressed .410(do they even make those)
Click to expand...

I will second the ar for home defence. It's lightweight, powerfull, and an easy to learn platform. Ideally an ar 15 with a suppressor would be a great HD weapon, if it were not a NFA item. However buying a suppressor is going to run the price way up, not to mention wait times and $200 tax stamp, you want a short barrel add another $200. I personally would not want to use a NFA item in any defence scenario unless I had too.

Another option if she is uncomfortable shooting larger caliber weapons could be the kel tec pmr 30. It has the same characteristics your looking for, not really loud and low recoiling. It comes in a 30 plus 1 round semi auto .22 mag pistol.

It is fairly compact, lightweight (20oz) loaded, and comes with a rail if you wanted to add a light. That is a quite a bit of firepower in a small package.

Anyway it may be worth a look.

http://www.gunblast.com/KelTec-PMR30-2.htm
 
If you like the rifle setup maybe it would be worth looking into a carbine something like kel tec's sub2000 or a sterling. Both are chambered in 9mm which would work for keeping recoil down.
 
I second the Butler Creek Steel Lips. It has never failed on me and I keep it loaded in my 10/22. Just basically anything based on the Eaton mags with steel feeding lips should probably be good.
 
There was a recent story in the news in the Atlanta area. A home invader attacked a woman in the shower. She fought him off and grabbed her .22 pistol. She shot him 9 times and he died trying to escape.
A couple of days later another story ran on the news at a gun range where women were learning how to shoot after hearing about this incident.
I was actually shocked there was no anti gun angle to the story.
 
I'll try to explain the reasoning the best I can.

She received a cochlear implant when she was around 8 or so.

Whe she was around 10 or 12 her stepdad and stepbrothers pretty much forced her to go shooting with them. Not just .22's, but also hunting calibers and shotguns.

Since that day, she hasn't like being around shooting. She's never been against or hated guns, encouraging me to take our daughters shooting, she's just never been into the shooting parts.

About 2 years ago, I finally convinced her to go with us and she discovered she really enjoyed the .22's that the girls were shooting.

On occasion, she's fired larger caliber guns, but didn't like the recoil from the big pistols. She did like the Ruger P89 9mm, which I keep nearby. But only when she has the muffs on.

Her oldest stepbrother has a suppressed M14 style rifle(full auto awesomeness) and it has little to no kick and is about on par with a .22 on noise level. She likes it. Edit to add, the bang without muffs is about the same as what a .22 makes with muffs on

She doesn't like the 12ga because of the kick and bang.

A suppressed ar15 has been the best I've thought of for her. Accurate, a lot of ammo options, lightweight, and fairly easy to operate.

She wants to shoot some different pistols(I'm limited on semi-auto's, I'm a revolver guy). She likes the P89, but it's still louder than she likes. She hates Glock(I've taught her well) and loves my 1911, but not enough to get her own.

As is it now, she seems to like medium framed pistols, but even so, she wants it to be 'not so loud' simply because loud noises hurt her ears.

And I understand that the trade-off of the loud noise is she'll be safe, that's why the 12ga stays real close when I'm not around.

I also want her to be confident and not gunshy when she needs to be. And not be afraid to pick up 'her' gun because it's going to hurt her ears.

Hopefully that makes sense on why it pretty much has to be suppressed.

It may end up being a suppressed pistol or just about anything else right now. It's going to end up being whatever she likes, I'm just trying to find out what all's available and whatnot.

The budget for her gun with extras will be around 2-2,500. I'm hoping I don't have to spend that much, but if it's necessary, then that's it.
 
Handguns are loud. Even a .22 subsonic in a handgun is pretty loud to my ears and there just isn't any way around it. A suppressor would be great, but it's an NFA item that adds extra cost and I can see it going badly in court if you ever had to use it for defense.
Granted a .22 is not ideal for defense, but as I said, I've never seen a 10/22 not run perfectly as long as it was in good working order. And the .22LR is an underappreciated round. I've seen JHP .22 rounds flatten out and fail to penetrate on pretty small pests so I'd never trust one for defense, but a .22 solid will drill through a lot more than you might think. If it's what your wife can use, load it with solids and then maybe try to get her a pistol caliber carbine.
 
TAKE HER TO THE GUN STORE AND JUST HAND HER THE CREDIT CARD

Let her find what she wants
let HER do it, and then pay for the lessons, you go play with the kids
SOMEWHERE ELSE
 
David E said:
Ruger now offers a 25 rd magazine. Tactical Innovations offers two 25 rd mags, one in metal. Black Dog Machine also offers some hicap mags for the 10-22.
Click to expand...

About 15 years ago, I bought some 30 rd. and some 50 rd. mags (4 of ea.) for my 10/22. I can't remember if they are Ram-Line or Butler Creek.
 
Possom - your wife doesn't have to like the shotty, just be familiar with its use as this would mainly be a HD gun. One of the ones that don't have a regular shoulder stock but a "pistol grip" back end keeps the gun shorter and more easily used.
Also, with shot like #4 Buck (40 pellets in a 3" shell) it's a heck of a lot more forgiving of a panicked (poor) aim.
 
Congrats!

Took me years to get her as an UTTER gun phobic, (raised in the worst that 1980's NE Portland had to offer, gunfire outside her house all night, startled violently at loud noises) to join me in the field, where she read in the car.

A few years more and after trying a .22 rifle she hated... I forced the Model 10 .38 on her.

She began the rapid descent after that... a year ago I took her into the store, laid an array before her from Beretta to Taurus, to colts, to SW, Walther and Rugers.

She called the PPK a "girls" gun, and out of all of them picked her own Sigma 9mm. She joins me at the range every chance she gets.

NOW she wants a Chiappa Rhino .357, and she does not appear to want to shoot .38 out of it.

As much wonderful advice as has been laid before you already... Get a few rental guns into her hands... she may surprise you with her inner Annie Oakley.

16 years together this year, 11 married.

True love is handing your spouse a loaded handgun and turning your back.
 
One of the ones that don't have a regular shoulder stock but a "pistol grip" back end keeps the gun shorter and more easily used.
Click to expand...

stay away from Pistol Grip Only shotguns...they are hard to shoot and aim and are just about useless
 
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